John the Baptist knew Jesus Christ was God!

[praise_yeshua]

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”
Joh 3:31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.
Joh 3:32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony.
Joh 3:33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true.
Joh 3:34 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure.
Joh 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.

Any Unitarians want to claim John the Baptist a liar?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Differences between John the Baptist and Unitarians......

1. John knew he wasn't important. Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”
2. John knew that he didn't originate from above. All men came from below.... John 3:31 He who comes from above is above all.
3. John knew that he was limited in the Spirit. Jesus was not limited in the Spirit. No mere man has had the Spirit without limit.
4. John knew that he didn't own anything. The Son had a limitless meritorious relationship with God and OWN all things.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”
Joh 3:31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.
Joh 3:32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony.
Joh 3:33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true.
Joh 3:34 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure.
Joh 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.

Any Unitarians want to claim John the Baptist a liar?

I don't think Unitarians want to claim John the Baptist a liar. I think Unitarians may want to claim praise_yeshua mistaken.

When John the Baptist tells those who came to get baptized that Christ is "above all", he means "above all messiah, priests, scribes, prophets, scholars, kings, governors or leaders you know"
The Bible is clear that

• When God subjects everything under the feet of Christ, the exception is God Himself.
• God is the Head of Christ. As far as I remember, the head is above the rest of the body.
• Christ Himself says that The Father (who Jesus claims to be "The Only and True God") is greater than him.

Furthermore, in this passage John the Baptists makes the distinction between two persons

• God and He who is sent by God.
• God and He who utters the words of God.

So, if your claim is that John The Baptist thought that the Messiah would be God, your claim is unsupported and has been refuted.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't think Unitarians want to claim John the Baptist a liar. I think Unitarians may want to claim praise_yeshua mistaken.

Your comments make John the Baptist out to be a liar.

When John the Baptist tells those who came to get baptized that Christ is "above all", he means "above all messiah, priests, scribes, prophets, scholars, kings, governors or leaders you know"

John didn't say that. He said Christ was above all. Why are you adding to the Scriptures?

The Bible is clear that

John The Baptist is clear. He bowed to Jesus Christ. Both in heart and literally.

John 1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

So, if your claim is that John The Baptist thought that the Messiah would be God, your claim is unsupported and has been refuted.

Why the "if". My claim is clear. Can you read?
Why the claim of "refuted"? You don't know John. You added words to what John said. I didn't. You did. John would call you a deceiver. Obviously you're nothing like John. You're a deceiver.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't think Unitarians want to claim John the Baptist a liar. I think Unitarians may want to claim praise_yeshua mistaken.

When John the Baptist tells those who came to get baptized that Christ is "above all", he means "above all messiah, priests, scribes, prophets, scholars, kings, governors or leaders you know"
The Bible is clear that

• When God subjects everything under the feet of Christ, the exception is God Himself.
• God is the Head of Christ. As far as I remember, the head is above the rest of the body.
• Christ Himself says that The Father (who Jesus claims to be "The Only and True God") is greater than him.

Furthermore, in this passage John the Baptists makes the distinction between two persons

• God and He who is sent by God.
• God and He who utters the words of God.

So, if your claim is that John The Baptist thought that the Messiah would be God, your claim is unsupported and has been refuted.

Are you from above like John declared concerning Jesus?

 

[Studyman]

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”
Joh 3:31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.
Joh 3:32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony.
Joh 3:33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true.
Joh 3:34 For he whom God has sent "utters the words of God", for he gives the Spirit without measure.
Joh 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given "all things into his hand".

I don't accept the labels "many" who come in Christ's Name judge others with. Nevertheless, it is an interesting question about JTB being a liar.

Why did God Give Jesus all things? Is Paul a liar?

Phip. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (BECAUSE OF THIS) God also hath "highly exalted him", and "given him a name" which is above every name:

Is David a Liar?

Psalms 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (BECAUSE OF THIS) "God, thy God", "hath anointed thee" with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Is Matthew a Liar.

Matt. 3: 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting "upon him": 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, "in whom I am well pleased".

Is Jesus Himself a Liar?

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, "ye would rejoice", because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

And again:

John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, "and say unto them", I ascend unto "my Father, and your Father"; and to "my God, and your God".

Any Unitarians want to claim John the Baptist a liar?

I still don't know for sure what a "Unitarian" is, but it seems Jesus was one, John the Baptist too. Paul and Matthew as well.

1 Peter 3: 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that "he might" bring us "to God", being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

It seems Peter is a Unitarian as well, if I understand the definition you are promoting.

And because I believe Him and all these other people who also believed Him, I am labeled the same way. It's very humbling actually.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't accept the labels "many" who come in Christ's Name judge others with. Nevertheless, it is an interesting question about JTB being a liar.

Why did God Give Jesus all things? Is Paul a liar?

I never said he was. I said who was a liar. I didn't even mention you. Your "line of questioning" is flawed and nothing more than deflecting. Pay attention. The title of the thread is about John the Baptist.

I still don't know for sure what a "Unitarian" is, but it seems Jesus was one, John the Baptist too. Paul and Matthew as well.

I can tell you don't often use a dictionary. You might want to consult one "every now and then".....I'm sure "Unitarian" is there. I've consulted a dictionary before. To each his own. Don't use a dictionary and stay ignorant.

If you don't know what a Unitarian is, then there is no need to try and label others a "Unitarian". You're making silly mistakes.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The Son had a limitless meritorious relationship with God and OWN all things.

This assertion is not correct.

The Owner is God. An owner doesn't need anyone to give him the things he owns.
It is God, the Owner, who puts all things in Jesus hands to accomplish a mission, and for a given time. Then Jesus returns those things to his God, the Owner.

• John 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.
• John 5:26,27 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
• John 6:65 I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it were given him by My Father.”
• John 13:3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands and that He came from God and was going to God,
• 1 Cor 15:24-28 Then comes the end when He [Christ] will deliver up the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He will reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For He “has put all things under His feet.” But when He says, “all things are put under Him,” it is revealed that He, who has put all things under Him, is the exception. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

CONCLUSION

1. Given the premise that an owner doesn't need anyone to give him the things he owns and...
2. Given the premise that Scriptures, including those that record Jesus own words, are clear on who gives whom the things...
3. The claim that Jesus OWNS all things is unsupported. It has been refuted.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Your comments make John the Baptist out to be a liar.

No. My comments just make you out to be mistaken.
God is above Jesus and the arguments presented are these:

• Paul teaches that when God subjects everything under the feet of Christ, the exception is God Himself.
• Paul teaches that God is the Head of Christ. As far as I remember, the head is above the rest of the body.
• Christ Himself teaches that The Father (who Jesus claims to be "The Only and True God") is greater than him.
• Let me add a fourth one: that Jesus claims to have a God, and a God is always above the person who worships Him.

Some other guy could ask you at this point the old and fool question" Are you are calling Paul and Jesus a liar?" but I won't do it, because I believe that is not your intention.
Your intention is to defend Jesus from attack. I praise that intention. I just think you are mistaken.

John didn't say that. He said Christ was above all. Why are you adding to the Scriptures?

John said "above all". I'm interpreting what he meant by "above all"
I'm not adding but interpreting, as you and everyone else do constantly.
I think that my interpretation is well founded. I think that yours has been refuted.
If you disagree, please present your arguments so that I and all our readers profit from them.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Are you from above like John declared concerning Jesus?

I'm not the Messenger or Manifestation of God.
So I don't come from above.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No. My comments just make you out to be mistaken.

You comments were about John. Right? You're adding and taking away from what John said. You're a deceiver.

Is that adulterous women you're leading still with you? Are you like Jesus with Mary Magdalene? I mean you claimed to have helped her....

Do you see how delusional you are?

I can tell you that your hooker doesn't love you like Mary loves Jesus. You're a cheap imitation.

God is above Jesus and the arguments presented are these:

• Paul teaches that when God subjects everything under the feet of Christ, the exception is God Himself.
• Paul teaches that God is the Head of Christ. As far as I remember, the head is above the rest of the body.
• Christ Himself teaches that The Father (who Jesus claims to be "The Only and True God") is greater than him.

I could resort to the old and fool argument of " You are calling Paul and Jesus a liar" but I won't do it, because I believe that is not your intention.
Your intention is to defend Jesus from attack. I praise that intention. I just think you are mistaken.

I'm talking about John. Pay attention to the OP.

John said "above all". I'm interpreting what he meant by "above all"
I'm not adding but interpreting, as you and everyone else do constantly.

Interpreting is ADDING.... More deception from you.

I think that my interpretation is well founded. I think that yours has been refuted.
If you disagree, please present your arguments so that I and all our readers profit from them.

I don't need your permission to do anything. Don't pretend otherwise. I have been rebuking your cheap imitation of Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm not the Messenger or Manifestation of God.
So I don't come from above.

Stating the obvious. Now don't pretend otherwise. Physician, heal thyself.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You're a deceiver...
...Is that adulterous women you're leading still with you? Are you like Jesus with Mary Magdalene? I mean you claimed to have helped her....
...Do you see how delusional you are?...
...I can tell you that your hooker doesn't love you like Mary loves Jesus. You're a cheap imitation.
...I have been rebuking your cheap imitation of Christ.

My brother:

You can choose to keep attacking me as a person, but it won't change what I will keep doing, God's willing.
This is what I will keep doing:

• Treating you as a beloved child of God, my brother, follower of Christ, intelligent and citizen of His Kingdom.
• Explaining why I think you are mistaken when I think you are mistaken.

 

[Studyman]

I never said he was. I said who was a liar. I didn't even mention you. Your "line of questioning" is flawed and nothing more than deflecting. Pay attention. The title of the thread is about John the Baptist.

I'm sorry, I thought you would recognize that I Highlighted JTB words you posted. I know that I believe them, and Pancho believes them as well. So neither me nor Pancho believes that JTB was a Liar, in my view.

Joh 3:34 For he whom God has sent "utters the words of God", for he (God) gives the Spirit without measure.
Joh 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given "all things into his (The Son's) hand".

When I say I believe John the Baptist, Paul, Matthew, Peter and Jesus Himself, I mean they all point to God the Father who is above all, and His Son who brings us to His Father, I am called a Unitarian. I think it is used as a slanderous name by many in judgment of others. I don't see that JTB thought Jesus was God the Father, rather, it seems evident that JTB knew that God the Father sent Jesus, as prophesied by the Law and Prophets. I don't see where JTB called Jesus God, but I can see how he believed the Messiah was greater than him, just as I believe JTB was greater than me. Truly Jesus is the Head of both me and JTB. And Truly God is the Head of Jesus. It seems you don't believe this, therefore, we disagree.

I can tell you don't often use a dictionary. You might want to consult one "every now and then".....I'm sure "Unitarian" is there. I've consulted a dictionary before. To each his own. Don't use a dictionary and stay ignorant.

You are such a bitter and resentful man. I pray that you will become renewed in the spirit of your mind. It seems evident that you do not rejoice at all, that Jesus ascended up to His Father who is greater than HE. Honestly, I don't seek my understanding of Jesus, or the God HE served by reading the Dictionary, or listening to Kenneth Copeland, or the Pope, or any of this world's religious men. Yes, there are 1000's of books and hundreds of different religious sects and business in this world's religious kingdoms. God's Inspired Word speaks to this as well.

Ecc. 12: 12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

13 Let us hear the "conclusion of the whole matter": Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

If you don't know what a Unitarian is, then there is no need to try and label others a "Unitarian". You're making silly mistakes.

I was simply pointing out that by the definition of Unitarian you seem to be promoting on this forum, Jesus, JTB, Matthew, Paul and Peter all fit the description it seems. I wasn't labeling them as such, rather, addressing the title of your thread. JTB knew Jesus was the Prophesied Son of God, just as Peter knew when Jesus asked him.

I didn't learn this from reading a dictionary, rather, studying the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I'm talking about John. Pay attention to the OP.

I know you were talking about John The Baptist. I paid close attention to the OP.
It just happens that the Scriptures are not limited to what John The Baptist said.
Paul's teachings, and particularly Jesus teachings, also count.

 

[Studyman]

You comments were about John. Right? You're adding and taking away from what John said. You're a deceiver.

Is that adulterous women you're leading still with you? Are you like Jesus with Mary Magdalene? I mean you claimed to have helped her....

Do you see how delusional you are?

I can tell you that your hooker doesn't love you like Mary loves Jesus. You're a cheap imitation.



I'm talking about John. Pay attention to the OP.


Interpreting is ADDING.... More deception from you.



I don't need your permission to do anything. Don't pretend otherwise. I have been rebuking your cheap imitation of Christ.

Wow "Praise Yeshua",

Is this you trying to drag Pancho down to your level again?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

When I say I believe John the Baptist, Paul, Matthew, Peter and Jesus Himself, I mean they all point to God the Father who is above all, and His Son who brings us to His Father, I am called a Unitarian.

God bless you, Studyman.
This is a great rendition of what Unitarian means.
Whatever the greatness of the Messengers of God, they all point out to God, and God alone.

 

[praise_yeshua]

My brother:

You can choose to keep attacking me as a person, but it won't change what I will keep doing, God's willing.
This is what I will keep doing:

• Treating you as a beloved child of God, my brother, follower of Christ, intelligent and citizen of His Kingdom.
• Explaining why I think you are mistaken when I think you are mistaken.

We are brothers as human beings. Descendants of Adam and Eve. You don't like what I say. What I say reveals your condition. What I said is true and accurate to what you have said.

Relative to the demands of properly recognizing Jesus Christ, we have no fellowship. You're disparaging my love. My Redeemer. My friend.

There is a choice to be had between such people and Him. My minimum requirement for such a fellowship is in Jesus Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I know you were talking about John The Baptist. I paid close attention to the OP.
It just happens that the Scriptures are not limited to what John The Baptist said.
Paul's teachings, and particularly Jesus teachings, also count.

Then why are you referencing others? Start your own thread about Paul.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Wow "Praise Yeshua",

Is this you trying to drag Pancho down to your level again?

All men are at the same level. You're no better than any other man. All men are created equal.