Jesus claimed equality with God

[civic]

Did Jesus really claim to be God incarnate in human flesh? Or, as skeptics argue, did His followers later invent those claims and attribute them to Him? Thankfully, the biblical account of His life and ministry leaves no doubt about who Jesus declared Himself to be.

Jesus frequently spoke of His unique, otherworldly origin, of having preexisted in heaven before coming into this world. To the hostile Jews He declared, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world" (John 8:23). "What then," He asked, "if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?" (John 6:62). In His high-priestly prayer Jesus spoke of the glory which He had with the Father before the world existed (John 17:5). In John 16:28 He told His disciples, "I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father." Thus, John described Jesus in the prologue of his gospel with these words: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

Amazingly, Jesus assumed the prerogatives of deity. He claimed to have control over the eternal destinies of people (John 8:24; cf. Luke 12:8-9; John 5:22, 27-29), to have authority over the divinely-ordained institution of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5), to have the power to answer prayer (John 14:13-14; cf. Acts 7:59, 9:10-17), and to have the right to receive worship and faith due to God alone (Matthew 21:16; John 14:1; cf. John 5:23). He also assumed the ability to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-11)—something which, as His shocked opponents correctly understood, only God can do (Mark 2:7).

Jesus also called God's angels (Genesis 28:12; Luke 12:8-9, 15:10; John 1:51) His angels (Matthew 13:41, 24:30-31); God's elect (Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33) His elect (Matthew 24:30-31); and God's kingdom (Matthew 12:28, 19:24, 21:31; Mark 1:15; Luke 4:43; John 3:3) His kingdom (Matthew 13:41, 16:28; cf. Luke 1:33; 2 Timothy 4:1).

When a Samaritan woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us" (John 4:25) Jesus replied, "I who speak to you am He" (John 4:26). In His high-priestly prayer to the Father, He referred to Himself as "Jesus Christ whom You have sent" (John 17:3); "Christ" is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word translated "Messiah." When asked at His trial by the high priest, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" (Mark 14:61) Jesus replied simply, "I am" (Mark 14:62). He also accepted, without correction or amendment, the testimonies of Peter (Matthew 16:16-17), Martha (John 11:27), and others (e.g., Matthew 9:27, 20:30-31) that He was the Messiah. He was the One of whom Isaiah prophesied, "His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6).

The Lord's favorite description of Himself was "Son of Man" (cf. Matthew 8:20; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:22; John 9:35-37, etc.). Although that title seems to stress His humanity, it also speaks of His deity. Jesus' use of the term derives from Daniel 7:13-14, where the Son of Man is on equal terms with God the Father, the Ancient of Days.

The Jews viewed themselves collectively as sons of God. Jesus, however, claimed to be God's Son in a unique sense. "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father," Jesus affirmed, "and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" (Matthew 11:27). In John 5:25-26 He said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself." After receiving word that Lazarus was ill Jesus said to the disciples, "This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified by it" (John 11:4). When asked at His trial, "Are You the Son of God, then?" Jesus replied, "Yes, I am" (Luke 22:70; cf. Mark 14:61-62). Instead of rejecting the title, the Lord embraced it without apology or embarrassment (Matthew 4:3, 6, 8:29; Mark 3:11-12; Luke 4:41; John 1:49-50, 11:27).

The hostile authorities clearly understood that Jesus' use of the title Son of God was a claim to deity. Otherwise, they would not have accused Him of blasphemy (cf. John 10:46). In fact, it was Jesus' claim to be the Son of God that led the Jews to demand His death: "The Jews answered [Pilate], 'We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God'" (John 19:7). And in John 5:18 — "The Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God." Even while He was on the cross, some mocked Him, sneering, "He trusts in God; let God rescue Him now, if He delights in Him; for He said, 'I am the Son of God'" (Matthew 27:43).

Jesus further outraged the unbelieving Jews by taking for Himself the covenant name of God, "I am" (Yahweh). That name was so sacred to the Jews that they refused to even pronounce it, lest they take it vain (cf. Exodus 20:7). In John 8:24 Jesus warned that those who refuse to believe He is Yahweh will perish eternally: "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (The word "He" is not in the original Greek.) Later in that chapter "Jesus said to [His hearers], 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am'" (John 8:58). Unlike many modern deniers of His deity, the Jews knew exactly what He was claiming, as their subsequent attempt to stone Him for blasphemy makes clear (John 8:59). In John 13:19 Jesus told His disciples that when what He predicted came to pass, they would believe that He is Yahweh. Even His enemies, coming to arrest Him in Gethsemane, were overwhelmed by His divine power and fell to the ground when Jesus said "I am" (John 18:5-8).

All of the above lines of evidence converge on one inescapable point: Jesus Christ claimed absolute equality with God. Thus He could say, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30); "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me" (John 12:45); and "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9-10). And thus we can conclude that "in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9), and we can worship Him accordingly as "our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).gty.org John's commentary on the Gospel of John 1-11 (Moody, 2006).

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

@JoshebB I read where you claimed that Jesus did not claim to be equal with God on another forum. The biblical evidence says otherwise.

" While on earth, Jesus laid aside all claim of equality with God, not his actual divinity. "

can you elaborate or clarify the above ?

 

[FreeInChrist]

Did Jesus really claim to be God incarnate in human flesh? Or, as skeptics argue, did His followers later invent those claims and attribute them to Him? Thankfully, the biblical account of His life and ministry leaves no doubt about who Jesus declared Himself to be.

Jesus frequently spoke of His unique, otherworldly origin, of having preexisted in heaven before coming into this world. To the hostile Jews He declared, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world" (John 8:23). "What then," He asked, "if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?" (John 6:62). In His high-priestly prayer Jesus spoke of the glory which He had with the Father before the world existed (John 17:5). In John 16:28 He told His disciples, "I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father." Thus, John described Jesus in the prologue of his gospel with these words: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

Amazingly, Jesus assumed the prerogatives of deity. He claimed to have control over the eternal destinies of people (John 8:24; cf. Luke 12:8-9; John 5:22, 27-29), to have authority over the divinely-ordained institution of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5), to have the power to answer prayer (John 14:13-14; cf. Acts 7:59, 9:10-17), and to have the right to receive worship and faith due to God alone (Matthew 21:16; John 14:1; cf. John 5:23). He also assumed the ability to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-11)—something which, as His shocked opponents correctly understood, only God can do (Mark 2:7).

Jesus also called God's angels (Genesis 28:12; Luke 12:8-9, 15:10; John 1:51) His angels (Matthew 13:41, 24:30-31); God's elect (Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33) His elect (Matthew 24:30-31); and God's kingdom (Matthew 12:28, 19:24, 21:31; Mark 1:15; Luke 4:43; John 3:3) His kingdom (Matthew 13:41, 16:28; cf. Luke 1:33; 2 Timothy 4:1).

When a Samaritan woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us" (John 4:25) Jesus replied, "I who speak to you am He" (John 4:26). In His high-priestly prayer to the Father, He referred to Himself as "Jesus Christ whom You have sent" (John 17:3); "Christ" is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word translated "Messiah." When asked at His trial by the high priest, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" (Mark 14:61) Jesus replied simply, "I am" (Mark 14:62). He also accepted, without correction or amendment, the testimonies of Peter (Matthew 16:16-17), Martha (John 11:27), and others (e.g., Matthew 9:27, 20:30-31) that He was the Messiah. He was the One of whom Isaiah prophesied, "His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6).

The Lord's favorite description of Himself was "Son of Man" (cf. Matthew 8:20; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:22; John 9:35-37, etc.). Although that title seems to stress His humanity, it also speaks of His deity. Jesus' use of the term derives from Daniel 7:13-14, where the Son of Man is on equal terms with God the Father, the Ancient of Days.

The Jews viewed themselves collectively as sons of God. Jesus, however, claimed to be God's Son in a unique sense. "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father," Jesus affirmed, "and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" (Matthew 11:27). In John 5:25-26 He said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself." After receiving word that Lazarus was ill Jesus said to the disciples, "This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified by it" (John 11:4). When asked at His trial, "Are You the Son of God, then?" Jesus replied, "Yes, I am" (Luke 22:70; cf. Mark 14:61-62). Instead of rejecting the title, the Lord embraced it without apology or embarrassment (Matthew 4:3, 6, 8:29; Mark 3:11-12; Luke 4:41; John 1:49-50, 11:27).

The hostile authorities clearly understood that Jesus' use of the title Son of God was a claim to deity. Otherwise, they would not have accused Him of blasphemy (cf. John 10:46). In fact, it was Jesus' claim to be the Son of God that led the Jews to demand His death: "The Jews answered [Pilate], 'We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God'" (John 19:7). And in John 5:18 — "The Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God." Even while He was on the cross, some mocked Him, sneering, "He trusts in God; let God rescue Him now, if He delights in Him; for He said, 'I am the Son of God'" (Matthew 27:43).

Jesus further outraged the unbelieving Jews by taking for Himself the covenant name of God, "I am" (Yahweh). That name was so sacred to the Jews that they refused to even pronounce it, lest they take it vain (cf. Exodus 20:7). In John 8:24 Jesus warned that those who refuse to believe He is Yahweh will perish eternally: "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (The word "He" is not in the original Greek.) Later in that chapter "Jesus said to [His hearers], 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am'" (John 8:58). Unlike many modern deniers of His deity, the Jews knew exactly what He was claiming, as their subsequent attempt to stone Him for blasphemy makes clear (John 8:59). In John 13:19 Jesus told His disciples that when what He predicted came to pass, they would believe that He is Yahweh. Even His enemies, coming to arrest Him in Gethsemane, were overwhelmed by His divine power and fell to the ground when Jesus said "I am" (John 18:5-8).

All of the above lines of evidence converge on one inescapable point: Jesus Christ claimed absolute equality with God. Thus He could say, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30); "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me" (John 12:45); and "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9-10). And thus we can conclude that "in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9), and we can worship Him accordingly as "our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).gty.org John's commentary on the Gospel of John 1-11 (Moody, 2006).

hope this helps !!!

Excellent, excellent, excellent.

 

[101G]

@JoshebB I read where you claimed that Jesus did not claim to be equal with God on another forum. The biblical evidence says otherwise.

" While on earth, Jesus laid aside all claim of equality with God, not his actual divinity. "

can you elaborate or clarify the above ?

GINOLJC, to all.
101G will not respond for JoshebB. ... but would like to respond to this post.
" While on earth, Jesus laid aside all claim of equality with God, not his actual divinity. " the scriptures states otherwise, on equality.
Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Form here is the Greek Term,
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

but the ROOT of this word is the KEY.
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).

what's another word for "Portion?", answer, when used as a NOUN in "A part of a whole", it is synonyms with "SHARE". this can be found at Word Hippo. https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/portion.html#C0-1

so, while on EARTH, God is the "EQUAL .... SHARE" of himself in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v. state, meaning,
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain
Root(s): G2756

so, he, Jesus, God, the ONLY PERSON... in a EQUAL SHARE of himself on earth in flesh and blood, laid aside his powers as God, but his deity , (Spirit), was only .... "EQUALLY SHARED" in the body of flesh. for his NATURE is God/Spirit, because he TOOK ON that flesh, and was not a "PARTAKER" of that flesh.... big difference between "TOOK PART", and "PARTAKER".

"Took Part" ... in our NATURE, Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;" Notice he took part and not a Partaker of flesh and blood.

Now "Partaker" ..... in HIS NATURE, 2 Peter 1:4 "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

understand now? ... NATURAL BIRTH, "Partaker", human parents.... Spiritual Birth/(born again),"Partaker", Divine Birth, (from above).
101G

 

[JoshebB]

@JoshebB I read where you claimed that Jesus did not claim to be equal with God on another forum. The biblical evidence says otherwise.

" While on earth, Jesus laid aside all claim of equality with God, not his actual divinity. "

can you elaborate or clarify the above ?

Sure.

Philippians 2 states the following:

Philippians 2:3-8
Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Although Christ existed as God, he did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. That is what is plainly, explicitly stated in scripture. That, however, does not mean Jesus ceased to be God, or that he ever laid aside any claim of divinity apart from the aforementioned equality. He did, in fact, imply his divinity with every claim of sonship. Thise is explicitly reported in John's gospel.

John 10:22-33
At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place in Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple area, in the portico of Solomon. The Jews then surrounded him and began saying to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in my Father’s name, these testify of me. But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one." The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus replied to them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning me?" The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning you for a good work, but for blasphemy; and because you, being a man, make yourself out to be God.”

According to the Jews, Jesus made himself out to be God. If the Jews were correct, then Jesus was an apostate heretic and none of us are saved from sin. If Jesus was correct than the implication of his words is correct: He is God. Later we learn that Jesus laid aside all claims of equality with God. Philippians 2 does not state he ceased being God when he took on the role of a bondservant. Such a claim is nowhere found in scripture. Instead, we find Jesus repeatedly subordinating himself to the Father while also repeatedly implying his divinity. Every time Jesus or any of the gospel writers attribute divine qualities to Jesus they are making a statement about his divinity.

The hostile authorities clearly understood that Jesus' use of the title Son of God was a claim to deity.

Yep. I completely agree.

 

[civic]

Sure.

Philippians 2 states the following:

Philippians 2:3-8
Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Although Christ existed as God, he did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. That is what is plainly, explicitly stated in scripture. That, however, does not mean Jesus ceased to be God, or that he ever laid aside any claim of divinity apart from the aforementioned equality. He did, in fact, imply his divinity with every claim of sonship. Thise is explicitly reported in John's gospel.

John 10:22-33
At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place in Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple area, in the portico of Solomon. The Jews then surrounded him and began saying to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in my Father’s name, these testify of me. But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one." The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus replied to them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning me?" The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning you for a good work, but for blasphemy; and because you, being a man, make yourself out to be God.”

According to the Jews, Jesus made himself out to be God. If the Jews were correct, then Jesus was an apostate heretic and none of us are saved from sin. If Jesus was correct than the implication of his words is correct: He is God. Later we learn that Jesus laid aside all claims of equality with God. Philippians 2 does not state he ceased being God when he took on the role of a bondservant. Such a claim is nowhere found in scripture. Instead, we find Jesus repeatedly subordinating himself to the Father while also repeatedly implying his divinity. Every time Jesus or any of the gospel writers attribute divine qualities to Jesus they are making a statement about his divinity.

Yep. I completely agree.

The biblical meaning of Kenosis

Philippians 2:5-8
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
NIV

These translation capture the meaning of the text in its CONTEXT.


New International Version
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

New Living Translation
Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,

New King James Version
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

King James Bible
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Strongs Lexicon
From kenos; to make empty, i.e. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify -- make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.

Louw Nida Greek Lexicon
87.70 κενόωb: to completely remove or eliminate elements of high status or rank by eliminating all privileges or prerogatives associated with such status or rank.

everywhere κενόω appears in Scripture, it means “to make void,” “to nullify,” “to make of no effect.” Paul uses it that way in Romans 4:14, where he says, “For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void (κεκένωται) and the promise is nullified.” Yet no one thinks to ask, “Of what has faith been made empty?” The idea is that faith would be nullified—it would come to naught—if righteousness could come by the Law.45 The text teaches, then, not that Christ emptied Himself of something, but that He emptied Himself. He nullified Himself; He made Himself of no effect. The Son Himself is the object of this emptying. He did not empty the form of God, nor the divine attributes, nor His divine prerogatives, but Himself.

What Paul makes very clear in this passage is that in addition to being God, He became man. The Incarnation was not a subtraction of His deity but an addition of humanity to His nature. This passage does not say Jesus gave up His deity but that He laid aside His rights as Deity, assuming the form of a servant in verse 7. The text says He was in the form of God or being in the very nature of God in 2:6. Just as He took upon Himself the "form of a servant" which is a servant by nature, so the "form of God" is God by nature. The word "being" from the phrase: being in the very form of God is a present active participle. This means "continued existence" as God. What Paul is actually saying here is Jesus has always been and still is in the "form of God". If you continue reading the passage Paul really drives this point home so that his readers have no doubt what he is trying to get across to the Philippians. Paul says that every knee will bow and will one day Confess Jesus is LORD. Paul takes the passage in Isaiah 45:23 which clearly refers to Yahweh a name used for God alone and says this of Jesus. The fulfillment of YHWH in Isaiah 45 is none other than Jesus who is God(Yahweh) in the flesh.

He self limited His divine prerogatives via the Incarnation as per Phil 2. In other words did not use them to His advantage but was in submission to the Father for 33 years to accomplish our salvation. All the FULLNESS of DEITY dwells in bodily form. Col 1:19;2:9. Jesus was and is fully God lacking nothing in His Deity.

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Even through Christ existed in the form of God He did not regard equality with God something that He needed to reach for or grasp. Why because it was already His and never gave that up for a millisecond.

Paul is using syllogisms from the text in Philippians 2.

Just as the term “form of God” in verse six does not mean “less than God” because of the phrase “equality with God" in the prior passage.

It goes to reason in the same way with the 2 phrases in the “form of a servant” and in the “likeness of man” in verse seven do not mean that Jesus was any “less than human,” but instead means He was the same or “equal with all humans.”

That is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT ".

In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus.

conclusion:When Jesus came to earth He laid aside or emptied Himself of something. There are many misconceptions at to what He set aside. It was not His Deity. Jesus could not empty Himself of His Deity - He could not stop being God. He was always God the Son. He could not exchange His Deity for His humanity. Neither did He set aside only some of His divine attributes and keep others. In addition, Jesus always knew He was God and possessed these divine attributes - He was not ignorant of who He was or what He could do. Moreover Jesus allowed the people to know that He had such powers. Neither did Jesus set aside the use of His relative attributes such as being all-powerful, all-knowing, and everywhere present. Those powers were always present with Him.When Jesus became a human being He divested Himself of certain rights as God the Son. This can be seen in three ways. First He restricted Himself to a human body with all its limitations. He gave up His position when He became a human being. Second He veiled or hid His glory from the people. Finally, He exercised His relative attributes only by the will of God the Father - never on His own initiative.

hope this helps !!!

 

[101G]

conclusion:When Jesus came to earth He laid aside or emptied Himself of something. There are many misconceptions at to what He set aside. It was not His Deity. Jesus could not empty Himself of His Deity - He could not stop being God. He was always God the Son. He could not exchange His Deity for His humanity. Neither did He set aside only some of His divine attributes and keep others. In addition, Jesus always knew He was God and possessed these divine attributes - He was not ignorant of who He was or what He could do. Moreover Jesus allowed the people to know that He had such powers. Neither did Jesus set aside the use of His relative attributes such as being all-powerful, all-knowing, and everywhere present. Those powers were always present with Him.When Jesus became a human being He divested Himself of certain rights as God the Son. This can be seen in three ways. First He restricted Himself to a human body with all its limitations. He gave up His position when He became a human being. Second He veiled or hid His glory from the people. Finally, He exercised His relative attributes only by the will of God the Father - never on His own initiative.

in your conclusion you said, "He was always God the Son. He could not exchange His Deity for His humanity. Neither did He set aside only some of His divine attributes and keep others. In addition, Jesus always knew He was God and possessed these divine attributes".

but you also said, "He self limited His divine prerogatives via the Incarnation as per Phil 2. In other words did not use them to His advantage but was in submission to the Father for 33 years to accomplish our salvation. All the FULLNESS of DEITY dwells in bodily form. Col 1:19;2:9. Jesus was and is fully God lacking nothing in His Deity."

He self limited His divine prerogatives via the Incarnation? what part of self limited is included in Emptied in Phil. 2:7? for empty means "remove all the contents of (a container). Empty means "ALL" removed.

101G

 

[JoshebB]

conclusion: When Jesus came to earth He laid aside or emptied Himself of something.

Yes, and Philippians 2 explicitly states what he laid aside was claims of equality when he took on the role of bondservant.

It was not His Deity.

I completely agree and have no idea why the matter is being belabored.

hope this helps !!!

It does not. Post 6 was an unnecessary waste of time, effort, and cyberspace preaching to the proverbial choir. The title of this op cannot contradict Philippians 2:6 and remain valid. I recommend you amend the title to say Jesus intentionally implied ontological equality with God during his incarnation while he served his Father in the role of redemptive bondservant. That would be consistent with whole scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is clear that this excludes the Father who put all things in subjection to him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him, so that God may be all in all.

Although Jesus existed in the form of God, he did not consider equality with God something to be grasped when he took on the role of bondservant when made in the likeness of humanity. The emptying of himself is explicitly couched in his claim of quality, not his existence as God. I'm Trinitarian, but we do not need the label to prove Christ's divinity. Jesus himself spoke about his inherent divinity multiple times, and he did so in such a manner that if his words were not true then none of us are saved.

 

[civic]

P

Yes, and Philippians 2 explicitly states what he laid aside was claims of equality when he took on the role of bondservant.

I completely agree and have no idea why the matter is being belabored.

It does not. Post 6 was an unnecessary waste of time, effort, and cyberspace preaching to the proverbial choir. The title of this op cannot contradict Philippians 2:6 and remain valid. I recommend you amend the title to say Jesus intentionally implied ontological equality with God during his incarnation while he served his Father in the role of redemptive bondservant. That would be consistent with whole scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is clear that this excludes the Father who put all things in subjection to him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him, so that God may be all in all.

Although Jesus existed in the form of God, he did not consider equality with God something to be grasped when he took on the role of bondservant when made in the likeness of humanity. The emptying of himself is explicitly couched in his claim of quality, not his existence as God. I'm Trinitarian, but we do not need the label to prove Christ's divinity. Jesus himself spoke about his inherent divinity multiple times, and he did so in such a manner that if his words were not true then none of us are saved.

Post 6 was not a “ waste “ it was an exegetical analysis of the passage for all to read and understand what Paul was saying regarding the Kenosis in the passage.

There are many here who believe the Kenosis heresy , many Unitarians and those who have not studied this topic in any depth who can learn the truth Paul was teaching in this passage.

 

[JoshebB]

P

Post 6 was not a “ waste “ it was an exegetical analysis of the passage for all to read and understand what Paul was saying regarding the Kenosis in the passage.

There are many here who believe the Kenosis heresy , many Unitarians and those who have not studied this topic in any depth who can learn the truth Paul was teaching in this passage.

Tell it to someone who needs to read it. All that needed to be posted was a succinct, simple, "I agree, Josh."

 

[FreeInChrist]

Sure.

Philippians 2 states the following:

Philippians 2:3-8
Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Although Christ existed as God, he did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. That is what is plainly, explicitly stated in scripture. That, however, does not mean Jesus ceased to be God, or that he ever laid aside any claim of divinity apart from the aforementioned equality. He did, in fact, imply his divinity with every claim of sonship. Thise is explicitly reported in John's gospel.

John 10:22-33
At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place in Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple area, in the portico of Solomon. The Jews then surrounded him and began saying to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in my Father’s name, these testify of me. But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one." The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus replied to them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning me?" The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning you for a good work, but for blasphemy; and because you, being a man, make yourself out to be God.”

According to the Jews, Jesus made himself out to be God. If the Jews were correct, then Jesus was an apostate heretic and none of us are saved from sin. If Jesus was correct than the implication of his words is correct: He is God. Later we learn that Jesus laid aside all claims of equality with God. Philippians 2 does not state he ceased being God when he took on the role of a bondservant. Such a claim is nowhere found in scripture. Instead, we find Jesus repeatedly subordinating himself to the Father while also repeatedly implying his divinity. Every time Jesus or any of the gospel writers attribute divine qualities to Jesus they are making a statement about his divinity.

Yep. I completely agree.

 

[JoshebB]

@FreeInChrist, fix your HTML tags in post 11.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@FreeInChrist, fix your HTML tags in post 11.

Um, I have no idea what an HTML tag is or how to fix it.

I dont see I made a comment in post 11, just that I copied you....

And my question did not?

If you could tell me what to do I will.

I was asking if when He emptied Himself, if that was only to be so long as he was on earth as a mortal and after that he would once again be equal after the resurrection.

 

[JoshebB]

Um, I have no idea what an HTML tag is or how to fix it.

I dont see I made a comment in post 11, just that I copied you....

And my question did not?

If you could tell me what to do I will.

Well if you weren't making any comment and did not intend to do so then never mind. I have no idea why anyone would repost a post or quote an entire post without further comment but if that was your plan then never mind. I understand the post does not need my attention.

If you still want to know about the tags let me know.

I was asking if when He emptied Himself,

I believe I have already answered that question and done so multiple times.

if that was only to be so long as he was on earth as a mortal and after that he would once again be equal after the resurrection.

Hmmm... I'm not sure why others are having so much problem understanding the Philippians 2 text and/or my posts. Philippians 2 does not state Jesus was not equal to God. It explicitly states Jesus "existed in the form of God." I ask everyone, logically speaking, how could Christ exist in the form of God and not be equal to God??? What the text states is he did not consider equality something to be grasped. Not considering equality something to be grasped and not being equal are two completely different matters. The text states Jesus "emptied himself," and then the text proceeds to explain specifically how he emptied himself, or what he emptied!!!

He took on the role of bondservant.

So, the answer to your inquiry is...... as soon as the role of bondservant was fulfilled Jesus returned to his existence as God whereupon verses like Psalm 110:1ff ensue.

Psalm 110:1
The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.

The LORD said to David's Lord, "Sit at My right hand until I defeat all your enemies." The Father told the Son to have a seat while He finishes up and makes footstools of all the remaining, already defeated enemies. In other words, Psalm 110:1 explicitly states Jesus will remain seated at God's right hand, as God's right hand seated on God's throne, until all those Jesus has already defeated are made footstools. He's not coming back beforehand. This verse is quoted and/or referenced at least a half-dozen times in the NT. Nearly every NT writer quotes or references it, teaching it to the NT era Church.

His earthly role as bondservant is complete.

Jesus is already enthroned.

He's not leaving the throne until the footstool thing is done.



Do you understand the significance of the bondservant? Are you familiar with its revelation in the OT, how the OT scriptures and practices of bond service foreshadowed the gospel?