Only in false reasoning infiltrated by Catholicism councils.
Jesus Christ is the wisdom and creation of God
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
brightfame52
Active Member
As a Man He had a God and was Gods Son, but as God He is God. What you little zealots forget Jesus is God/Man
Before Earth( Psalm 45:7)--On Earth( John 20:17) After Earth( Rev 3:12)
brightfame52
Active Member
As a Man He had a God and was Gods Son, but as God He is God. What you little zealots forget Jesus is God/Man
God doesn't have a God=EVER.
brightfame52
Active Member
As a Man He had a God and was Gods Son, but as God He is God. What you little zealots forget Jesus is God/Man
Dizerner
Active Member
Wisdom is the Holy Spirit in this context.
Runningman
Active Member
You believe the Holy Spirit was created in what sense?
brightfame52
Active Member
No, the Holy Spirit is God and in no way was created or begotten. Even Christ in His Deity as the Word of God was never begotten or created Jn 1:1, but in His Mediatorial Manhood, as Mediator He was Created or brought forth in Eternity Prov 8:22-23
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 ;I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
He was Adams Mediator 1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Man was never without the Mediator, not even in his creation in Adam. Jesus Mediatorial Manhood did not come of Mary, it was eternally begotten.
Dizerner
Active Member
I'm not saying the Holy Spirit was created, dude.
He has an incorrect translation.
More accurate is:
The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. (Prov. 8:22 NKJ)
I believe the Spirit and Son emanate from the will of the Father.
brightfame52
Active Member
@Dizerner
I hope not, but it could be construed thats what you meant
That word possessed can be translated to that its the word qānâ:
to get, acquire, create, buy, possess
What does that mean, emanate from ? Do you believe in the Trinity ?
I hope not, but it could be construed thats what you meant
That word possessed can be translated to that its the word qānâ:
to get, acquire, create, buy, possess
- (Qal)
- to get, acquire, obtain
- of God originating, creating, redeeming His people
- possessor
- of Eve acquiring https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h7069/kjv/wlc/0-1/
- of God originating, creating, redeeming His people
- to get, acquire, obtain
What does that mean, emanate from ? Do you believe in the Trinity ?
Dizerner
Active Member
Yes, that's correct. The Holy Spirit was acquired by Father God before creation.
It means the Father's will is responsible for the existence of the Spirit and Son, which proceed from him.
Yet they still retain all of his nature and attributes and are uncreated.
This is called Monarchical Trinitarianism.
It maintains the Father's position of authority internally within the three Persons of the Trinity.
brightfame52
Active Member
I cant buy that, I dont believe any of the Godhead had a derived existence, The Father, Word and Spirit are CoEternal, underived, but I believe the Mediatorial Manhood of Christ as Prophet, Priest and King and Head of Gods Chosen People had a derived existence and was deitized by a eternal union with God the word.
Dizerner
Active Member
It's not a salvific doctrine, it's under adiaphora.
You sound Nestorian though, splitting Jesus into two things and making the human Jesus a subcategory of divine Jesus.
Jesus is one Person, and the Word BECAME flesh, it did not add on flesh.
brightfame52
Active Member
@Dizerner
Well wasn't He God/Man on Earth with His derived existence from Mary at the virgin birth ? Im saying He/Was God/Man the Mediator with His derived existence out of the Father.
Yes One Person with Two distinct Natures
No, thats not my view, I looked it up, i had never heard of it. I hold Jesus Christ to be one person with two distinct natures.
However your view could be construed to say, the Deity of the Son and Christ the word was derived, as almost to say, begotten gods. Im not saying you say that, you try to avoid that, but logically it could be construed thats what you are saying.
Well wasn't He God/Man on Earth with His derived existence from Mary at the virgin birth ? Im saying He/Was God/Man the Mediator with His derived existence out of the Father.
Yes One Person with Two distinct Natures
No, thats not my view, I looked it up, i had never heard of it. I hold Jesus Christ to be one person with two distinct natures.
However your view could be construed to say, the Deity of the Son and Christ the word was derived, as almost to say, begotten gods. Im not saying you say that, you try to avoid that, but logically it could be construed thats what you are saying.
Runningman
Active Member
A literal and honest translation of Provebrs 8:12,22 has created, but you are getting near a good point because you have identified how the holy spirit can be a thing in some contexts. The Holy Spirit is the Father on one hand, but on the other hand the holy spirt can be a gift or annointing.
Dizerner
Active Member
Yes, I know people can misunderstand it. But we must not shy away from a view just because it can be misunderstood.
Paul had people misunderstand his view of grace to mean it's okay to sin, because it sounded so close to that.
Derivation is not creation out of nothing—things beget after their own kind.
The Spirit and Son inherit the same nature of aseity.
Dizerner
Active Member
Acquired is the best sense of the idea here.
