praise_yeshua
Active Member
To a Pharisee, they could have fasted. To the hungry, they did what anyone should do.
Jesus broke the law of Moses
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
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Same principle a Luke 14:5
Jesus said to the Pharisees and teachers of the law, “If your son or work animal falls into a well on the Sabbath day, you know you would pull him out immediately.”
A lot of times the Pharisee’s
traditions of men is mistaken for or substituted for the actual Torah such asnjn the Pharisee’s tradition of men in their ritual handwashings encounter with Jesus in Mark 7.
Jesus said to the Pharisees and teachers of the law, “If your son or work animal falls into a well on the Sabbath day, you know you would pull him out immediately.”
A lot of times the Pharisee’s
traditions of men is mistaken for or substituted for the actual Torah such asnjn the Pharisee’s tradition of men in their ritual handwashings encounter with Jesus in Mark 7.
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civic
Active Member
Those same Pharisees tried condemning Jesus and His disciples in the same narrative accusing them of breaking the sabbath. As if they can win the argument with God in the flesh who made the law and knows its intent and knows the heart and intent of those He is debating. A lose lose for the religious folks
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Such often disagreed with itself as found in the Talmud and extends into the Midrash. The Talmud and Midrash are reconstructed but we certainly can see how Jesus dealt with their teachings in the NT. In fact, the NT is required for Judaism to actually make any argument at all for their religion.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Yep....
The principle of....
If this were you, what would YOU do if no one was watching and how would you act when you know someone is watching.
Often times, there is a huge difference in the two.
Their Takanot or Traditions of Men or so called Oral Torah, often ran affoul of God’s Written Torah, which Jesus did not like. Ie, his many “you have heard it said …… , but I say to you” statements in Mathew 5.
civic
Active Member
ditto
See Mathew 12:12 - Jesus’ words!
12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
He is filling full or restoring the spirit BACK into the Law as God originally intended that the Pharisees had effectively EMPTIED from the Law with their onerous Takanot or traditions of men.
shhhh, emptied VS filled full.hmmm?
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Wick Stick
Active Member
It probably wasn't called Deuteronomy (Second Law). Tradition is that name was given to it by the LXX translators.If we accept that it was the same book found in the days of Josiah, then it was just called "the book of the Law," as in 2Kings 22.
There are several theories of how the Pentateuch came to be, but many people (including me!) believe that Deuteronomy was Moses original composition, and the earliest part of the Law.
If by 'moral law' you are referring to the 10 commandments, then I agree that they all still apply. Most of them are re-stated in the New Testament anyway.
Yes I believe the moral law still applies. Even if I didn’t know much about it, I couldn’t imagine anything in the 10 commandments would need or deserve to be nullified, especially after Jesus took pains in Mathew 5 to ensure HIS interpretations of the moral law included the Filled Full or Full Filled versions WITH the spirit of the Law as well as the letter. ie, the Greek word pleroo translated fulfill means “to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally, to fill to the full” which is EXACTLY WHAT Jesus did in Mathew rather than abolish the Law when he raised the bar with the Spirit of the Law the Pharisees had excised with their traditions of men.
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
See Mathew 12:12 - Jesus’ words!
12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
He is filling full or restoring the spirit BACK into the Law as God originally intended that the Pharisees had effectively EMPTIED from the Law with their onerous Takanot or traditions of men.
hmmm?
No need. You have the Spirit of God right? There is no more need for a judge to determine your compliance. You're being led by the Spirit of God right?
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Jesus was just explaining why he didn’t break the Sabbath because God’s Law was originally given to have the Spirit of the Law as well as the Letter. Jesus wasn’t abolishing the Law, he was filling it back up to the esxtent God intended. He was RAISING the bar, not removing the bar. It’s MUCH easier for me to not murder than to not even have anger in my heart. It’s much easier to keep the Letter of the Sabbath than to keep the spirit of the Sabbath by doing good on the Sabbath. It is infinitely easier to not commit the ACT of adultery than it is to not have lust in my heart, oer Jesus’s admonisions in the Sermon on the Mount in Mathew 5.
Yes the indwelling Spirit is our Helper in this regard. God’s moral Law is on our hearts. God’s moral Law on the tablets of stone were originally intended to be interpretted BEYOND THE LETTER of the law as Jesus said, which is why he had to fill them back up to their original intended interpretation.
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
You seem to reluctantly appeal to the Spirit of God. Do you prefer to begin with the law or with the Spirit?
It seems that you're trying to establish facts that are not needed to express the freedom to live in the Spirit.
Relative to lust, Jesus was very clear when dealing with "lust". He said that if a man just LOOKS upon a women to lust after her, then he has already committed adultery in his heart with her even if he never actually does it.
Would the Spirit of God prevent this or would the law prevent this?
In this case, the law could never actually establish righteousness. A man could lust after any women without commiting adultery.
The judgement of the Spirit is actually much more severe than the law ever could be. I see sin everywhere in many things that people see as being good. The Spirit of God has led me to such beliefs. Beliefs I would never know if it were not for the Spirit of God.
Such was lost this world before the flood. The law being added didn't bring back the integrity of the heart in the children of God. It NEVER could. It wasn't designed to. That law restrained this world until God brought forth His own Son to deal with the lack of integrity of the human heart.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive, effective and sharper than any double-edged sword, cutting to the point of dividing soul and spirit, joints from marrows, astutely judging the thoughts and intents of our human heart.
When a righteous man reads the law, he undoubtedly always sees himself guilty. The very intent of the heart is only judged by the Spirit of God.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
The English word Deuteronomy comes from Greek. The LXX is superior to any ancient extant block script text from the 9th century. Even the DSS themselves do not contain names such as Devarim. They are traditional and wouldn't even exist if it were not for the LXX itself. The idea the LXX translators actually did this is really a "stretch" to say the least. There is no evidence for such a "naming convention" until much later.
If we accept that it was the same book found in the days of Josiah, then it was just called "the book of the Law," as in 2Kings 22.
There are several theories of how the Pentateuch came to be, but many people (including me!) believe that Deuteronomy was Moses original composition, and the earliest part of the Law.
If by 'moral law' you are referring to the 10 commandments, then I agree that they all still apply. Most of them are re-stated in the New Testament anyway.
I’m only trying to communicate what Jesus tried to communicate. He came to fill full the law, not a abolish it. I believe we rely on the Law on our hearts as well as avail the Holy Spirit our Helper. It’s both in my view. One is more reflexive, the other comes to the fore where I am weakest, thankfully!
Wick Stick
Active Member
I didn't come up with the tradition... just passing on what I've heard.Quick Google search:
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Quick Google search:
Google is often wrong. So are various AI models. Just dig deeper. You will find it out for yourself.
It is very interesting when a Jew starts talking about such names when they originate in Greek and Christianity. I've enjoyed debate the subject over the years. It does good for people to learn their mistakes. I'm looking for where I'm wrong myself.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I'm doing the same.
Let me use an analogy.
When you have children do you want them to stay a baby forever? Or do you want them to grow up?
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
We put away the law to embrace the Spirit of God. Fulfillment causes such things to "vanish away"......
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Wick Stick
Active Member
I already have. The quote from Google was entirely for the benefit of others
