Is the word all ever used in a restricted sense ?

atpollard said:
Hallelujah! UNIVERSALISM is finally proven! There you have it from the lips of Jesus.

John 12:47
"And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I will not judge him."
  • Jesus just said that there is no JUDGEMENT for ANYONE that rejects him.
  • John 3:18 says that "Whoever believes in him is not condemned"
  • So whether you hear and obey or hear and reject ... there is no "judgement"/"condemnation"
"For I have not come to judge the world [all inclusive, non restrictive], but to save the world [all inclusive, non restrictive]."
  • Jesus came to save all men without exception (and the animals and the trees and everything in the "world") ... all inclusive and not-restrictive.
  • Jesus alone sits on the Judgement seat [2 Corinthians 5:10].
  • Since Jesus will not judge the world (everyone) but Jesus came to save the world (everyone), there is no one to judge.
  • Relax, John 12:47 has relieved the WORLD of the need to "hear and obey" with this discovery! ;)

Unless, of course, "world" is used in a restricted sense in this verse. Then UNIVERSALISM is false, Judgement is back on, and sinners should be very afraid and seek forgiveness.

... but no, WORLD must be unrestricted and mean EVERYONE/THING WITHOUT EXCEPTION, right? :)
Click to expand...
Nope afraid not

While this is true

John 12:47 (LEB) — 47 And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I will not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

Those who never become believers never are saved.

John 12:48 (NASB95) — 48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.




Where it is seen, any who do not believe are a part of the world Christ came to save
 
brightfame52 said:
The word world is used in a restricted sense. It makes no sense for you to keep posting that verse.
Click to expand...
Will you ever stop running from this verse?

John 12:47 (LEB) — 47 And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I will not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

Where it is seen, any who do not believe are a part of the world Christ came to save
 
Does all mean all ? Well all can be translated everyone. But it still means all


New International Version
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

New Living Translation
For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.

English Standard Version
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Berean Standard Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Berean Literal Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

King James Bible
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

New King James Version
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

New American Standard Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

NASB 1995
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

NASB 1977
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Legacy Standard Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Amplified Bible
since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,

Christian Standard Bible
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

American Standard Version
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

Contemporary English Version
All of us have sinned and fallen short of God's glory.

English Revised Version
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Because all people have sinned, they have fallen short of God's glory.

Good News Translation
everyone has sinned and is far away from God's saving presence.

International Standard Version
since all have sinned and continue to fall short of God's glory.

NET Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

New Heart English Bible
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

Webster's Bible Translation
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Weymouth New Testament
for all alike have sinned, and all consciously come short of the glory of God,
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

World English Bible
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God—

Berean Literal Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Young's Literal Translation
for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God --

Smith's Literal Translation
For all have sinned, and failed of the glory of God;
Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God.

Catholic Public Domain Version
For all have sinned and all are in need of the glory of God.

New American Bible
all have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God.

New Revised Standard Version
since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God;
Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
For all have sinned and are short of the glory of God:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Because all of them have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God,
 
TomL said:
Nope afraid not

While this is true

John 12:47 (LEB) — 47 And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I will not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

Those who never become believers never are saved.

John 12:48 (NASB95) — 48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.




Where it is seen, any who do not believe are a part of the world Christ came to save
Click to expand...
Whew, dodged a bullet there. ;)
 
TomL said:
John 12:47 (LEB) — 47 And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I will not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

John 12:48 (NASB95) — 48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
Click to expand...
If the “world” is “all without distinction” rather than “all without exception”, meaning “some from every nation, tribe, tongue and people” (as Revelation 5 describes will happen), do the verses still make sense or do they no longer function?

That has the advantage that Jesus fails in a goal to save “all without exception” (world), but succeeds in a goal to save “all without distinction” (world).
 
Jay said:
Does all mean all ? Well all can be translated everyone. But it still means all


New International Version
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

New Living Translation
For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.

English Standard Version
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Berean Standard Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Berean Literal Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

King James Bible
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

New King James Version
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

New American Standard Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

NASB 1995
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

NASB 1977
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Legacy Standard Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Amplified Bible
since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,

Christian Standard Bible
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

American Standard Version
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

Contemporary English Version
All of us have sinned and fallen short of God's glory.

English Revised Version
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Because all people have sinned, they have fallen short of God's glory.

Good News Translation
everyone has sinned and is far away from God's saving presence.

International Standard Version
since all have sinned and continue to fall short of God's glory.

NET Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

New Heart English Bible
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

Webster's Bible Translation
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Weymouth New Testament
for all alike have sinned, and all consciously come short of the glory of God,
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

World English Bible
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God—

Berean Literal Bible
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Young's Literal Translation
for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God --

Smith's Literal Translation
For all have sinned, and failed of the glory of God;
Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God.

Catholic Public Domain Version
For all have sinned and all are in need of the glory of God.

New American Bible
all have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God.

New Revised Standard Version
since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God;
Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
For all have sinned and are short of the glory of God:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Because all of them have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God,
Click to expand...
All have not sinned .

Jesus :)
 
atpollard said:
If the “world” is “all without distinction” rather than “all without exception”, meaning “some from every nation, tribe, tongue and people” (as Revelation 5 describes will happen), do the verses still make sense or do they no longer function?

That has the advantage that Jesus fails in a goal to save “all without exception” (world), but succeeds in a goal to save “all without distinction” (world).
Click to expand...
Roman’s 1 makes it clear God is self evident t to all without exception and the gospel is available to all without exception and Jesus died for all without exception as per 1 John 2:2 , John 3:16-18. Faith is what allows one to benefit from His atonement and the gospel.
 
civic said:
and the gospel is available to all without exception
Click to expand...
This is nonsensical.
There are STILL unreached people groups that have NEVER heard of Jesus, just so what sort of “gospel” excludes Christ? What “good news” is there without the news of Jesus?
 
civic said:
Faith is what allows one to benefit from His atonement and the gospel.
Click to expand...
You mean the faith that is a gift from God and “not of yourselves” per Ephesians 2:8-9?
  • Romans 12:3 [NASB] For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
 
atpollard said:
If the “world” is “all without distinction” rather than “all without exception”, meaning “some from every nation, tribe, tongue and people” (as Revelation 5 describes will happen), do the verses still make sense or do they no longer function?

That has the advantage that Jesus fails in a goal to save “all without exception” (world), but succeeds in a goal to save “all without distinction” (world).
Click to expand...
It should be pretty clear

John 12:47 (NASB95) — 47 “If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

Christ came to provide a means of salvation for all without exception

To receive the salvation men must believe
 
TomL said:
Will you ever stop running from this verse?

John 12:47 (LEB) — 47 And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I will not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

Where it is seen, any who do not believe are a part of the world Christ came to save
Click to expand...
The word world is used in a restricted sense. It makes no sense for you to keep posting that verse.
 
TomL said:
It should be pretty clear

John 12:47 (NASB95) — 47 “If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

Christ came to provide a means of salvation for all without exception

To receive the salvation men must believe
Click to expand...
You did not answer the question that I actually asked:
  • If the “world” is “all without distinction” rather than “all without exception”, meaning “some from every nation, tribe, tongue and people” (as Revelation 5 describes will happen), do the verses still make sense or do they no longer function?

That is typically a sign that someone is "waiting to speak" rather than "listening".
Are you just "waiting to speak"?
 
brightfame52 said:
@TomL

This is a false gospel. Nothing in all scripture states salvation is made available at all should they believe !
Click to expand...
Ummm ... I am a 5-point Particular Baptist.
Exactly what makes the GOSPEL "unavailable" to someone hearing it?

I mean, I am 100% in agreement with
  • John 3:19-20 [NLT] And the judgment is based on this fact: God's light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed.
  • Romans 3:10-11 [NLT] As the Scriptures say, "No one is righteous--not even one. No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God."
so I have no problem claiming that "unless God does something" [like John 6:44 or Ephesians 2:1-10] those that hear will choose to "refuse to go near the light" and will not "seek God", but that is different from the GOOD NEWS not being available to them.

In John 3, it is not the Light (God) that refuses to go near the sinners, it is the sinners that are unwilling to approach the light.
In Romans 3, it is not God that refuses to be found, it is the men who refuse to seek.

So the Gospel (Good News) is available to all, almost without exception ... Paul lists the only condition, they must hear it:
  • Romans 10:13-15 [NLT] For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved." But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, "How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!"
and the "Good News" is Luke 11:9-13 [NLT] "And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. "You fathers--if your children ask for a fish, do you give them a snake instead? Or if they ask for an egg, do you give them a scorpion? Of course not! So if you sinful people know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him." ... but the "Bad News" is that all men sin and are afraid to ask.

However, that makes men "unwilling" without GRACE (unmerited favor); it does not render the "Good News" unavailable.
Like the seed in the parable of the sower, all of the SEED (Gospel) is good ... the flaw lies in the soil to receive the seed. The seed fell on all soils, but grew to bear fruit on only the Good Soil (and any gardener will tell you, it is the work of the FARMER that breaks the hard soil, removes the rocks and pulls the weeds to make the soil into "good soil").
 

Similar threads

T
Calvin's understanding of the term world
Replies
15
Views
185
TomL
T
T
Calvin on unlimited atonement
2
Replies
21
Views
120
atpollard
atpollard
N
In The Meantime
Replies
2
Views
68
NetChaplain
N
S
The first and one of the greatest deceptions ever recorded in Scripture.
Replies
1
Views
67
Studyman
S
MTMattie
History Is Calling Out To Be Heard
Replies
2
Views
53
MTMattie
MTMattie
Back
Top Bottom