brightfame52
Active Member
No scripture says Faith is man's responsibility. Faith is a Gift of Grace
Is believing/faith a work ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
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Per Ephesians 2:8 Salvation is the gift, faith is the response to the free gift of salvation, God offers the free gift we accept or turn down, the way I read it. Jesus knocks at the door of our heart he doesn’t kick it in. He waits for our response. If not, why is it necessary to evangelize the world?
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civic
Active Member
Exactly
Faith is not the gift, salvation is, see below in Ephesians 2:8
1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.
Barnes the Calvinist Theologian agrees below- faith is mans responsibility.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Romans 10:4.
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.
And AT Robertson the premier NT Greek Scholar below :
For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.
Sentence structure means something.
atpollard
Active Member
Is believing/faith a work ?
No, it is a gift of God.- Ephesians 2:8-9 [NASB] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
- Romans 9:15-16 [NASB] For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." So then it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
So we can get rid of our missions budget at church? If not, why not?
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Faith is not works. It is a gift from God, just as every aspect of our existence.
So there is no contradiction between Grace ( which is a gift) and Faith (which is also a gift)
Do you believe that faith is a gift from God?
Then Arminians are gifted with faith too.
atpollard
Active Member
You can get rid of missions budgets, or invest them wisely (God is not dependent upon your efforts to accomplish His will) … God’s aseity.
However, God uses means.
God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;[Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15,18] yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;[James 1:13; 1 John 1:5] nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;[Acts 4:27–28; John 19:11] in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.[Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3–5]
atpollard
Active Member
John Wesley certainly believed so.
That is the beauty of salvation, since God does it (the saving) it really doesn’t matter if we understand the “HOW” as long as we get the “WHO” correct.
If you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart [a person] believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. - Romans 10:9-10 [NASB]
So you are saying Arminians think their faith is by libertarian free will but it is actually unconditionally predetermined and still valid?
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes a gift of Grace, so it's not a condition. Many teach faith is a responsibility of the natural man to exercise in Christ to get saved. That's work not a gift of grace.
brightfame52
Active Member
If they are of God's Elect
brightfame52
Active Member
In Ephesians 2:8 Faith is a Gift of Grace and not of ourselves.
See Covis’s in depth response. Sentence structure defies your premise.
The verse that best encapsulates the idea of faith as a response to the free gift of salvation is Ephesians 2:8-9, if sentence structure means anything, and it certainly does.
i mean Civic’s response.
Scripture does say salvation or eternal life is the free gift and is CONFIRMED by Eph 2:8-9
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 2:8 confirms this truth. Salvation is the free through the means of our faith.
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atpollard
Active Member
Yes.
Actually, the difference between a Calvinist (who actually understands Calvinism) and an Arminian (who actually understands Arminianism) is the “Ordo salutis” (order of events in salvation) … BOTH acknowledge the biblical truth that “God/Jesus saves” (we do not save ourselves).
It is a red herring to think that “free will” means that men save themselves and it is a red herring to think that “God’s Sovereignty” means people are robots. The only question is whether God’s gift “enables” man’s choice or “impels” man’s choice. A General gift that enables or a Particular gift that saves?
atpollard
Active Member
With all respect to you and Civic, Ephesians 2:8 does not say “our faith” … ever.
It teaches “salvation” is a gift (not of ourselves) by claiming the “whole thing” (“For by grace you have been saved through faith;” - Eph 2:8 NASB) is “not of yourselves” and “the gift of God”. The whole thing includes GRACE and SAVED and FAITH as part of “salvation” (the gift of God).
Jesus saves us. We save no one. We just share the truth and point others to Jesus (the one who saves).
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