brightfame52
Active Member
No they dont.
Gods Love Mercy and Grace is discriminate and only for a remnant, an elect remnant.
I'm not ashamed of the gospel
- Thread starter Obadiah
- Start date
Gods Love Mercy and Grace is discriminate and only for a remnant, an elect remnant.
brightfame52
Active Member
lol, yes it does, Romans set forth all the Doctrines of Grace, TULIP and if you reject it, you reject the Book of Romans as well
Aeliana
Active Member
God choice to save whoever believes in response to the gospel can be seen in the parable of the wedding feast.
brightfame52
Active Member
False
Aeliana
Active Member
So what is the gospel? We all know the answer to that one, it's the good news of God's plan of salvation and how He redeems us. The thing that makes it good is God's character is good. if He were not a good God, then there would be no such thing as the good news because there would be no motive for Him to provide for our salvation. The good news brought to us through the Bible is that our God is a loving creator and ruler who would rather show Mercy than justice toward undeserving sinners like we all were before we accepted Jesus.
The good news is God has provided the means of salvation for all people, not because He has to, but because He is good, that truth my friends, Is the very heart of the Gospel.
12 [No one] for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. The same Lord is Lord over all [of us] and He generously bestows His riches upon all who call upon Him [in faith].
13 For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved.
Romans 10:12–13
The good news is God has provided the means of salvation for all people, not because He has to, but because He is good, that truth my friends, Is the very heart of the Gospel.
12 [No one] for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. The same Lord is Lord over all [of us] and He generously bestows His riches upon all who call upon Him [in faith].
13 For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved.
Romans 10:12–13
Aeliana
Active Member
Here's the thing that's false and it can be found in the calvinist argument that God has granted repentance or faith to some individuals but not others. That's what's false my friend.
In the parable of the wedding feast the king chose to send his invitation first to the Jews, So that they might believe and repent. And then to the Gentiles, So that they too might believe and repent. Faith comes by hearing and thus God is granting or enabling faith or repentance by sending the invitation to believe in Jesus and repent. The invitation is the gospel.
Let's get down to the real nitty gritty about the Wedding feast.
How can they believe in one whom they have not heard Romans 10:14
How can they come to the banquet without the invitation found in the gospel. In the parable the king by inviting them is granting them the ability to willingly respond. The concept of God's granting or enabling has never been shown the way calvinist s try to explain it. A simple definition of these terms reveals that God enabling mankind to repent is not the same as irresistibly causing repentance. The example often used is God dragging one clicking and screaming to the cross enforcing them to believe in Jesus.
Remember the Bible shows us that Jesus is the bridegroom and we are the bride. We accept his proposal. If not we will not be present at the the wedding feast of the Lamb—literally, the “marriage supper”—
brightfame52
Active Member
Problem is a totally depraved sinner cant believe in Christ, it must be given from above. At this time, you reject the Gospel/Tulip
civic
Active Member
those are not truths
civic
Active Member
all sinners must believe to becomes saved or they remain in unbelief.
see John 3:16-18- For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
brightfame52
Active Member
Sure they are, from God
brightfame52
Active Member
Problem is a totally depraved sinner cant believe in Christ, it must be given from above. At this time, you reject the Gospel/Tulip
civic
Active Member
None of your false assumptions are in John 3, nice try
brightfame52
Active Member
Problem is a totally depraved sinner cant believe in Christ, it must be given from above. At this time, you reject the Gospel/Tulip
civic
Active Member
no Jesus taught the opposite that man must believe in Him to be saved. Not once did He ever say or imply that He was giving them their faith. It was mans faith to believe in Him to be saved and healed of their sins, sicknesses and diseases. Jesus never once taught that faith was given , granted or a gift .He said " YOUR FAITH " has saved and healed you. Not the faith I gave you has saved you, healed you.
Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( not the faith I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith (not the faith I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."
Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( not the faith I have given you ) has made you well!"
Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith(not the faith I have give you ) has healed you."
Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.
Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.
Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.
Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."
Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."
Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.
FAITH PRECEDES REGENERATION
Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
Notice what comes first
1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.
John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.
John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.
John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.
Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.
Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.
Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.
Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit
James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.
See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?
conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.
1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life
7- conversion
8- repentance
9- justification
10- sanctification
11- glorification
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Active Member
Problem is a totally depraved sinner cant believe in Christ, it must be given from above. At this time, you reject the Gospel/Tulip
civic
Active Member
where is that verse located ?
brightfame52
Active Member
There is no verse for you to see, sorry
civic
Active Member
correct since its not in the bible.
brightfame52
Active Member
It doesnt matter how many verses you are shown, you cant and wont see the Truth.
civic
Active Member
Projecting again
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