Micaiah
Active member
I was mainly focusing on the bias part of the statement.
How to Study Your Bible
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I was mainly focusing on the bias part of the statement.
I don't perfectly understand the NT and neither do you. Nobody does, apart from Christ.
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @Micaiah,
We are all capable of bias, and can be totally oblivious to the fact: Yet, like a 'plank' or 'mote' in the eye, it can blind, or cast a shadow, over our understanding of God's word, and influence our application of it. It can be imbedded in our consciousness from childhood, by the memory of a hymn or story told, hidden, yet influencing our comprehension. Only the reading of the word will lighten or reveal it's presence and dispel it's shadow.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Micaiah
Active member
civic
Well-known member
Agape speaks of the most powerful, noblest type of love: sacrificial love. Agape love is more than a feeling—it is an act of the will. This is the love that God has for His people and that prompted the sacrifice of His only Son, Jesus, for our sins. Jesus was agape love personified. Christians are to love one another with agapelove, as seen in Jesus’ Parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37).
Finally, we have phileo love. Philia refers to brotherly love and is most often exhibited in a close friendship. Best friends will display this generous and affectionate love for each other as each seeks to make the other happy. The Scriptural account of David and Jonathan is an excellent illustration of phileo love: “After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. . . . And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself” (1 Samuel 18:1-3).
Since phileo love involves feelings of warmth and affection toward another person, we do not have phileo love toward our enemies. However, God commands us to have agape love toward everyone. This includes those whose personalities clash with ours, those who hurt us and treat us badly, and even those who are hostile toward our faith (Luke 6:28; Matthew 5:44). In time, as we follow God’s example of agape love for our enemies, we may even begin to experience phileo love for some of them as we start to see them through God’s eyes.Got?
Why don’t you understand the difference ?
The original Greek makes that difference obvious , the English makes it confusing which is why a Greek lexicon is necessary to understand the meaning of the original language of the Greek New Testament.
You have actually made my point so for that I thank you
hope this helps!!!
Micaiah
Active member
I appreciate your efforts, but as I said, I have looked into this matter and your assertions are faulty.
Translation goes beyond a words mere definition or etymology. The surrounding words must be considered also when determining how words are to be translated.
In this case we see, if we look at ALL the verses containing these words, that God used those two words interchangeably.
civic
Well-known member
Not true as I have demonstrated and Jesus affirms what I said is true with Peter using both agape and phileo. Peter phileo Jesus not agape Him in that encounter. Jesus affirmed he phileo Him.
Phileo does not mean agape
5368 philéō (from 5384 /phílos, "affectionate friendship") – properly, to show warm affection in intimate friendship, characterized by tender, heartfelt consideration and kinship.
So below would be accurate :
Jesus: "Peter, do you love ( agape) Me?"
Peter: "Yes Lord, you know that I love ( phileo) you."
Jesus: "Peter, do you love ( agape) Me?"
Peter: "Yes Lord, you know that I have intimate friendship, heartfelt affection for you."( phileo)
Jesus: "Peter, do you love ( phileo) Me?"
Peter: "Yes Lord, you know that I have intimate friendship, heartfelt affection for you."." ( phileo)
Here is the amplified bible and youngs literal which conveys the meaning.
Amplified Bible
He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me [with a deep, personal affection for Me, as for a close friend]?” Peter was grieved that He asked him the third time, “Do you [really] love Me [with a deep, personal affection, as for a close friend]?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know everything; You know that I love You [with a deep, personal affection, as for a close friend].” Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep.
Young's Literal Translation
He saith to him the third time, 'Simon, son of Jonas, dost thou dearly love me?' Peter was grieved that he said to him the third time, 'Dost thou dearly love me?' and he said to him, 'Lord, thou hast known all things; thou dost know that I dearly love thee.' Jesus saith to him, 'Feed my sheep;
hope this helps !!!
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A perfect understanding of the Hypostatic Union of Christ, for one. In other words, I do not have a perfect understanding of how Christ can be both human and God at the same time. I believe it but I cannot explain the full intricacies of how that is.What don’t you understand?
Micaiah
Active member
If you just read what is plainly written (even in the Greek) you will see the fallacy in your argument:
“He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me?…” (John 21:17, KJV)
It wasn’t Jesus’ third time saying agapaō.
It was Jesus’ first time saying phileō.
So obviously both words mean the same thing all three times.
civic
Well-known member
Nope I just demonstrated it doesn’t
Micaiah
Active member
Because it’s not true.
Because the holy scriptures don’t say so.
Don’t You see?
Failing to understand the Bible only happens when you assume that things are in it that aren’t.
Micaiah
Active member
Then obviously you’re stuck in your thinking and dismissive of how the scriptures uses both words interchangeably.
Studying a Greek lexicon and actual language translation are two different things entirely.
Simply seeing a foreign word with it’s definition doesn’t make you a translator.
So you do not believe Jesus is human, or God, or both? Which is it?
Although we need people who understand the Greek and that they have been helpful in doing the translations, I find grammatical and rhetorical elements in the English translations that are missed by those who know languages like Greek, English, and German. When I have done a deep study of a NT writing, I have started by writing out an outline of the letter. The goal is to see how the topics flow and how "chapters" of a letter form a sequence or show continuity. The outline may have many initial errors but it is better than just trying to work you way sentence by sentence through a book of scripture.
When I get into individual passages, I try to understand the contribution of each word and phrase. In the deep studies, I generally have tried to understand what I could on my own. Then, I would check the commentaries. If a commentary provides the better explanation, then go with that. In this way, I can partly avoid the bias resulting from giving priority to other views. This avoids a level of eisegesis too
civic
Well-known member
They are different words for a good reason since they have different meanings otherwise there would only be 1 Greek word for love.
civic
Well-known member
Ditto
You have a way with words
civic
Well-known member
lolYou have a way with words
Micaiah
Active member
Jesus was human while he was on earth, the Son of God, the Christ.
What was he before being on earth and what is he now?
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