Here I summarize seven atonement theories.
- Thread starter Johann
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civic
Well-known member
I can’t watch any of this or read the book since they cite other sources and it’s not their own work or materials as a primary source.15,201 views Apr 7, 2021
Here I summarize seven atonement theories. This is adapted from an article I wrote several years ago, which you can read here: https://www.sdmorrison.org/7-theories...
Enjoy my work? Buy me a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/MorrisonSDM
Further reading on the atonement:
Gustaf Aulen, "Christus Victor" - https://amzn.to/3cUFYDD
St. Anselm, "Cur Deus Homo: Why God Became Man" - https://amzn.to/3uuNY4l
St. Irenaeus, "Against Heresies" - https://amzn.to/3fLRkf5
"The Nature of the Atonement: Four Views" - https://amzn.to/3fP3Vyk
Rene Girard, "Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World" - https://amzn.to/3sYiWSa
S. Mark Heim, "Saved from Sacrifice" - https://amzn.to/3mnkEKk
A few other resources not mentioned in this video:
Darrin W. Snyder Belousek, "Atonement, Justice, and Peace" - https://amzn.to/3dMxQVk
Fleming Rutledge, "The Crucifixion" - https://amzn.to/3dFoJWd
John McLeod Campbell, "The Nature of the Atonement" - https://amzn.to/39QEyrX
T. F. Torrance, "Atonement" - https://amzn.to/3fSdOLw
Karl Barth, "Church Dogmatics vol. IV/1" - https://amzn.to/31TNyIs
Jürgen Moltmann, "The Crucified God" - https://amzn.to/3t9ORPL
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.youtu.be
I’ll follow your standard you set for me with your posts and sources. This works both ways you know
hope this helps !!!
Johann
Well-known member
Who is on the defensive now?
You want to debate?
Listen to the video clip of William and his objections against those who "dislike" PSA and let's start with the 7 "theories" on Kippur.
You claim you don't hold to ANY theory-yet from reading YOUR thesis-as you say it is all YOUR work-you hold to either Christos Victor or Moral Influence.
Here is my proposition-You listen to the video clip-and we can take it from there.
Show me -point by point-where Craig is in error-Yes?
civic
Well-known member
I don’t like watching videos. And I can’t be pigeon holed into any single theory.
After all they are theories not facts .
Do you know the meaning of the word theory ?
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
Here I will post this for the members snd guests .
What is the difference between theory and fact?
If the path from a statement to verifiable predictions is short and uncontroversial, we call it factual. A theory is a statement which can generate a wide scope of predictions, but only through some intermediate steps, such as reasoning, computation, the use of other statements.
What is the difference between theory and fact?
If the path from a statement to verifiable predictions is short and uncontroversial, we call it factual. A theory is a statement which can generate a wide scope of predictions, but only through some intermediate steps, such as reasoning, computation, the use of other statements.
Clifford
Active member
No thanks. But I would like to see a one-on-one debate there's a section in the forum for that.
Johann
Well-known member
"bore. . .carried" These two verbs are parallel.
bore ‒ BDB 669, KB 724, Qal perfect, used of bearing one's guilt, Gen. 4:13; Lev. 5:1,17; 7:18; Num. 5:31; 14:34; Ezek. 14:10; 44:12, but it is also used of someone or some animal bearing another's guilt, cf. Lev. 10:17; 16:22; Num. 14:33; Ezek. 4:4,5,6 and of the suffering Servant's redemptive ministry in Isa. 53:4
carried ‒ BDB 687, KB 741, Qal perfect; this is literally "bear a heavy load," it is used of the Servant in Isa. 53:4 and Isa. 53:11 (Qal imperfect)
Notice the series of verbs in Isa. 53:4-6 of what YHWH did to the Servant for humanity's benefit.
smitten by God, Isa. 53:4 ‒ BDB 645, KB 697, Hophal participle
afflicted (by God), Isa. 53:4 ‒ BDB 776, KB 853, Pual participle
pierced through for our transgressions, Isa. 53:5 ‒ BDB 319, KB 320, Poal participle
crushed for our iniquities, Isa. 53:5 ‒ BDB 193, KB 221, Pual participle
the chastening for our well being (no verb) upon Him, Isa. 53:5
by His scourging we are healed, Isa. 53:5
This is the textual foundation for the doctrine of the vicarious, substitutionary atonement.
"Smitten of God"
It was God's will that Jesus die (cf. Isa. 53:10; John 3:16; Mark 10:45; 2 Cor. 5:21). Jesus' trial and death were not accidents or mistakes, but the plan of God (cf. Acts 2:23; 3:18; 4:28; 1 Pet. 1:20).
53:5 "pierced. . .crushed" As "bore" and "carried" in Isa. 53:4 were parallel, so too, these verbs.
pierced ‒ BDB 319, KB 320, Poal participle usually by a sword in battle, but not here. The same root means "polluted" for mankind's purification and forgiveness.
crushed ‒ BDB 193, KB 221, Pual participle; this verb is used several times in Isaiah
Isa. 57:15 ‒ Niphal participle, "the heart of the contrite"
Isa. 3:15 ‒ Piel imperfect, "crushing My people"
Isa. 19:10; 53:5 ‒ Pual participle, "to be crushed"
Isa. 53:10 ‒ Piel infinitive construct, "to crush"
It denotes one who is humbled. In this context by YHWH Himself for the greater good of all mankind.
53:6 This is the OT counterpart to Rom. 3:9-18,23; 5:12,15,18; 11:32; Gal. 3:22. This shows the terrible development of the Fall of Genesis 3 (cf. Gen. 6:5,11-12; Ps. 14:3; 143:2).
"the iniquity of us all to fall on Him" Jesus died for the sins of the entire world. Everyone is potentially saved by Christ (cf. John 1:29; 3:16-17; 12:47; Rom. 5:18; 1 Tim. 4:10; Titus 2:11; Heb. 2:9; 7:25; 1 John 2:2; 4:14). Only willful unbelief keeps anyone from God.
Some commentators have tried to make a restrictive theological distinction between the "all" [twice] of Isa. 53:6 and "the many" of Isa. 53:11d and 12e. However, the parallelism of Rom. 5:18, "all" and "the many" of Isa. 5:19, clearly shows that they refer to the same group (i.e., fallen humanity made in the image and likeness of YHWH, Gen. 1:26-27).
God desires all humans to be saved ‒ John 4:42, 1 Tim. 2:4; 4:10; 2 Pet. 3:9).
53:6d
NASB, TEV "fall on"
NKJV, NRSV, REB, Peshitta "laid on"
NJB "to bear on"
NET "to attack"
JPSOA "visited upon"
LXX "gave him over to"
The MT has the verb (BDB 803, KB 910, Hiphil perfect), which can mean
cause to light upon (here)
cause one to entreat (KB 910, Hiphil, #2)
interpose (cf. Isa. 53:12, Qal participle)
attack or assail (NET, p. 1269, #10)
"For the transgression of my people" This phrase shows that the term "Servant" in this context cannot be national Israel. The Servant dies (cf. Isa. 53:8c,d) for Israel.
Here the DSS has "of his people."
This song/poem has several rare and unusual verbals.
Isa. 52:15, "what had not been told" ‒ Pual perfect (BDB 707, KB 765)
Isa. 52:15, "they will understand" ‒ Hithpolel perfect (BDB 106, KB 122)
Isa. 53:4, "smitten" ‒ Hophal participle (BDB 645, KB 697)
Isa. 53:4, "afflicted" ‒ Pual participle (BDB 776, KB 853)
Isa. 53:5, "pierced" ‒ Poal participle (BDB 319, KB 320)
Isa. 53:5, "crushed" ‒ Pual participle (BDB 193, KB 221)
Isa. 53:7, "led" ‒ Hophal imperfect (BDB 384, KB 383)
Isa. 53:8, "considered" ‒ Polel imperfect (BDB 967, KB 1319)
"But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief"
YHWH was pleased (lit. "it was the will of" ‒ BDB 342, KB 339, Qal perfect). This verb means "to delight in" (cf. Isa. 58:2; 62:4) or "desire" (55:11). It is even used of YHWH's pleasure to put someone to death in 1 Sam. 2:25. It is shocking to use a verb like this in connection with the unfair, painful treatment of the righteous Servant. YHWH had an eternal redemptive plan!
YHWH's will and purpose was "to crush" (Piel infinitive construct, cf. Isa. 53:5) and "put to grief" (Hiphil perfect, BDB 317, KB 311). The verb means "to make sick" (JPSOA) or "sore by hitting." There was a high and costly price to pay for human redemption (cf. 2 Cor. 5:21)! YHWH and His Servant paid it fully and freely!
These discussion questions are provided to help you think through the major issues of this section of the book. They are meant to be thought-provoking, not definitive.
1. Does the title "My Servant" refer to the Jews or the Messiah?
2. Why are the numerous references to the Gentiles' inclusion so significant in this passage?
3. Why did God choose the Jews?
4. Why did the Servant suffer?
5. Why was God pleased to crush Him?
6. What does Isa. 53:6 say about sin?
7. Why has this passage been so influential on the church?
My pastor-Utley.
Johann
Well-known member
Not interested-I cannot afford to stay online and neglect my own personal studies- edit personal comments
If you are not interested in seeing the content I have posted-I cannot help you.
An aside-we have regular power cuts in South Africa lasting for 2 hours daily. So I would rather redeem the time instead of a hotheaded "debate"
Shalom
J.
Please keep the discussions about the topic and not about each other making comments about the other poster is gas lighting. Thank you
Johann
Well-known member
Prove him wrong-as I cite my sources-you don't brother.
I am more than willing to debate you-but like I have said to another member-we have regular power outs here in South Africa, 2 hours daily-so I redeem my time.
I said it is not between you and me-but now you are stalking.
Isaiah 53-and you resort to Outreach for Judaism?
Besides-I get the impression some things are flying way over your head-I am in awe studying Isaiah 53-you are not.
I have rabbinical sources-you don't-so where do you even want to begin?
Do you know the rules for a debate? HOW to engage without playing the victim?
J.
Johann
Well-known member
I am trying-believe me.
J.
civic
Well-known member
No I’m no longer going to engage your posts unless it’s your own words and I will not respond to yours unless they are my own words. That way it’s our own ideas. Our own words , our own posts. That solves our problems.
Otherwise it’s he who has the most sources wins and he with the longest posts wins the argument.
hope this helps !!!
Johann
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
I didn’t edit anything.
civic
Well-known member
No I’m not interested in debating someone that’s not here. Invite him here and I will be glad to debate him.
Bronson
Active member
Not done on purpose, how does that happen? I'm sure the admin has better things to do than edit your post that accidentally copy and pasted large amount of text. Must have been during the power outage.
civic
Well-known member
Everyone here has access to the rules and guidelines and should of read them by now.
In case anyone needs a reminder here is our very short list of them.
