Heaven is a real place

[Doug Brents]

I said it is a reference to the Resurrection of the dead from the grave.

Forgive me, I was remembering another event, and I did not read the passage you referenced again before I said they had died again. My mistake.

Yes, Ezekiel's prophecy is a reference to the resurrection of the dead, but it, like Revelation, is a figurative account of the resurrection in terms that man can understand. You think it implies that man will have flesh and bones and tendons etc. But again, we do not know what we will be like at the resurrection. I can't, and won't, tell you what I think we will be like, because I have no idea, but I do know that we will be changed from what we are now.

That is a interpretation. I don't teach the "rapture". There is much debate over this. I'm looking for evidence. That is what you demand from me...... right?

And Scripture's accounts are not evidence for you? I don't teach the rapture either. We are in the Tribulation now (Rev 1:9), and have been since before the end of the first century.
All we can know for sure is what the Word tells us. And it tells us that all life will end suddenly when Jesus returns, the living in Christ will meet Him in the air after the dead in Christ are raised to meet Him, and then the evil dead will be raised to Judgement after the wedding celebration of Jesus to the Church is held in Heaven (Rev 19-20, Rev 1:7, 2 Pet 3:10-12, 1 Thes 4:6).

So your life now is just going to be forgotten? You have a history.... right?

Forget about "physical". I prefer the context of "tangible". Often times they are equal. In some circles they're not. I don't want to "talk past" one another when we are saying the same things.

"face to face" is rather unique phrase. I recommend you study the use of the "phrase" throughout the Scriptures. Paul is appealing to Jacob "wrestling with God" in Genesis 32.

We are all the sum of our experiences. You can't leave our bodies out of this. I know you want to do this because of many troubling things we experience in our lives but you're looking at this the wrong way.

"Forgetting the anguish" is part of this brother.

We will indeed forget all the troublesome parts of this life (Isa 65:17, Rev 21:4). I believe that we will remember the good times, and relationships, and things like that, as there is evidence in Scripture of people remembering other people. But not all of our history will be remembered, and maybe not any of it; it will be overshadowed by the glory we find in God's presence.

Even the spiritual is "tangible" to other spirits, so yes, things will be tangible on the other side of the resurrection. But you can indeed leave our bodies out of this. This body is nothing more than a seed of what we will become.

 

[FreeInChrist]

There are two aspects of existence after the death of our mortal bodies.

You are referencing the period in-between the death of our mortal bodies and the bodily Resurrection from the grave.

Notice there is no context of a bodily resurrection in 2 Corinthians 5. Many false doctrine are taught from these verses. False doctrines such as "soul sleep" and "eternal slumber".

Paul deals with the bodily Resurrection previously in 1 Corinthians 15. 2 Corinthians 5 was obviously a response to how those in Corinth responded in conflating what Paul taught about the Physical Resurrection and what immediately happened upon the death of the saints. The Physical Resurrection will involve many saints. The reference in 2 Corinthians 5 only deals with individual deaths.

The bodily Resurrection will not take place until the culmination of many varying things promised to mankind.

After today I will likely not have access to a computer for a week or longer, ( I need 2 new ones and will need to leave this with Best Buy to have them transfer stuff) but for clatification of my post......

You say " The bodily Resurrection will not take place until the culmination of many varying things promised to mankind."

While I agree with this I want to be clear that my replies on this subject are simply to point Jim to the place where it biblically states that in the end... WE WILL HAVE A BODY THAT THE BIBLE CALLS A GLORIFIED BODY.... that as we see in

2 Cor 5: 1-4

5 For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life

IS PROOF.... unless one thinks that Saul/Paul was a simpleton.

When and how it happens is of little need to understand when one totally denies it will.

So other then what I have posted scripture wise... can you think of another that specifically says we will get new bodies??????????? Or dont you think we will?

 

[Jim]

After today I will likely not have access to a computer for a week or longer, ( I need 2 new ones and will need to leave this with Best Buy to have them transfer stuff) but for clatification of my post......

You say " The bodily Resurrection will not take place until the culmination of many varying things promised to mankind."

While I agree with this I want to be clear that my replies on this subject are simply to point Jim to the place where it biblically states that in the end... WE WILL HAVE A BODY THAT THE BIBLE CALLS A GLORIFIED BODY.... that as we see in

2 Cor 5: 1-4

5 For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life

IS PROOF.... unless one thinks that Saul/Paul was a simpleton.

When and how it happens is of little need to understand when one totally denies it will.

So other then what I have posted scripture wise... can you think of another that specifically says we will get new bodies??????????? Or dont you think we will?

Nothing there says anything about glorified bodies.

2 Corinthians 5:3

(ESV) if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked.
(ISV) Of course, if we do put it on, we will not be found without a body.
(KJV) If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

I think the ISV is a bit of eisegesis. And the same can be said for verse 4.

 

[praise_yeshua]

After today I will likely not have access to a computer for a week or longer, ( I need 2 new ones and will need to leave this with Best Buy to have them transfer stuff) but for clatification of my post......

You say " The bodily Resurrection will not take place until the culmination of many varying things promised to mankind."

While I agree with this I want to be clear that my replies on this subject are simply to point Jim to the place where it biblically states that in the end... WE WILL HAVE A BODY THAT THE BIBLE CALLS A GLORIFIED BODY.... that as we see in

2 Cor 5: 1-4

5 For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life

IS PROOF.... unless one thinks that Saul/Paul was a simpleton.

When and how it happens is of little need to understand when one totally denies it will.

So other then what I have posted scripture wise... can you think of another that specifically says we will get new bodies??????????? Or dont you think we will?

What you quoted talks of leaving our existing bodies and having a new "body" that is from heaven. That happens when we all die at different times throughout history.

That existing body from heaven will be clothed in the physical body of the bodily Resurrection in the future.

It is not difficult to understand at all. No. I do not believe that Paul was a simpleton. Never even implied it.

The body will be raised incorruptible.

1Co 15:54 Now when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will happen, “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

When YOU or I die, "Death IS NOT swallowed up in victory". Our sons and daughters will still die. Our wives and husbands will still die.

You're teaching false doctrine when you conflate these separate events. Doesn't matter who you are or what you claim. It is wrong.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Nothing there says anything about glorified bodies.

2 Corinthians 5:3

(ESV) if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked.
(ISV) Of course, if we do put it on, we will not be found without a body.
(KJV) If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

I think the ISV is a bit of eisegesis. And the same can be said for verse 4.

Php 3:21 who will transform these humble bodies of ours into the likeness of his glorious body by means of that power by which he is able to subject all things to himself.

I suppose you believe Christ Jesus in the Incarnation had a corruptible body?

What Jesus like you or not?