He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[TomL]

Baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit is not what is described in Acts 2:1-4; rather baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit is what is described in Acts 2:38. Baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit is one and the same as the indwelling Holy Spirit. Baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit was a promise to all who are saved, not just the few who were given power to work signs, wonders and miracles.

The filling with the Spirit there is the baptism

Acts 1:4–5 (NASB95) — 4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Acts 2:4 (NASB95) — 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

 

[Doug Brents]

Um it is when the Holy Spirit baptized them

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NASB95) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

You continue to ignore Scripture. 1 Pet 3:21, it is in baptism (in water, like the Flood) that we are saved. Matt 28:19, those in Christ are commanded to be the ones who baptize their students into Christ by which they will be saved (Mark 16:16). Acts 8:36, Phillip taught the Eunuch that salvation was received during baptism in water which is why the Eunuch requested baptism in water as they went along their way. Gal 3:26-27, it is in water baptism that we are clothed with Christ and made part of the Family/Body of Christ. Eph 5:26-27, through the washing of water by the Word (water and Spirit) we are made clean (washed of sin), pure, and made holy.

The gentiles were baptized en the Spirit


Acts 11:15–17 (NASB95) — 15 “And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 “And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 “Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?”

so

They were placed in the body of Christ

Again that in itself indicates their salvation

You are making assertions that Scripture does not make. There is NO indication that the Gentiles were saved by the Holy Spirit falling on them in power. They received NOTHING more than empowerment to speak in tongues and praise God.

Without faith one does not receive the Spirit


John 7:39 (NASB95) — 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The Gentiles did not receive the indwelling of the Spirit when He fell ON them in power. They received the indwelling of the Spirit when they were baptized in water, just as EVERYONE else in the NT era has.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Again, salvation and the indwelling of the Spirit is received through faith, not through intellectual assent.

And scripture refutes your claim regarding faith

Acts 15:8–11 (NASB95) — 8 “And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 “But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

Again, this passage does not say when these events occurred. It does not say that this happened when the Spirit fell on them in power. The only timing that fits with ALL Scripture is that these verses are referring to the time when the Gentiles were baptized in water, and that is when they received the indwelling of the Spirit and their hearts were purified: through the faith of baptism.

 

[Jim]

The filling with the Spirit there is the baptism

No it is not. baptism in the Spirit is a promise in the NT to all who are saved. Filling with the Spirit was only for a few select to be able to work signs wonders and miracles. Baptism in the Spirit was a New Covenant act of God. Filling with the Spirit happened for the selected few throughout both the OT and the NT.

 

[TomL]

No it is not. baptism in the Spirit is a promise in the NT to all who are saved. Filling with the Spirit was only for a few select to be able to work signs wonders and miracles. Baptism in the Spirit was a New Covenant act of God. Filling with the Spirit happened for the selected few throughout both the OT and the NT.

Jim Scripture clearly refutes that claim

The filling with the Spirit there is the baptism

Acts 1:4–5 (NASB95) — 4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
What was to happen not many days away?
What did happen not many days?

Acts 2:4 (NASB95) — 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

BTW

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

The Holy Spirit's filling is the same as the gentile's reception of the Spirit, which is referred to as a baptism of the Spirit.

Proving Acts 2 speaks of a baptism of the Holy Spirit fulfilling the words of Jesus seen in Acts chapter 1 seen above

 

[Jim]

Jim Scripture clearly refutes that claim

The filling with the Spirit there is the baptism

Acts 1:4–5 (NASB95) — 4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
What was to happen not many days away?
What did happen not many days?

Acts 2:4 (NASB95) — 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

BTW

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

The Holy Spirit's filling is the same as the gentile's reception of the Spirit, which is referred to as a baptism of the Spirit.

Proving Acts 2 speaks of a baptism of the Holy Spirit fulfilling the words of Jesus seen in Acts chapter 1 seen above

Do you understand that there is a difference between being filled with the Spirit and being indwelt with the Spirit?

 

[dwight92070]

2 Corinthians 7:10 "For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, ..."
Paul didn't say water baptism leads to salvation, did he?
Ephesians 2:16 " ... even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law ..."
Paul didn't say we were justified by water baptism, did he?
Galatians 3:2 " ... did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"
Notice Paul did not mention water baptism as a third option, did he?

Salvation comes by repentance, believing, hearing with faith, NOT water baptism.

Galatians 3:7 "Therefore be sure it is those who are of faith (not those baptized in water) who are sons of Abraham."
Galatians 3:8 "The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith ..."

Paul didn't say by water baptism, did he?

Galatians 3:9 "So then who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer."

Paul didn't say those who are baptized in water, did he?

 

[Jim]

Galatians 3:2 " ... did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"
Notice Paul did not mention water baptism as a third option, did he?

Salvation comes by repentance, believing, hearing with faith, NOT water baptism.

Notice Paul did not mention repentance or believing.

 

[dwight92070]

How can you say that Paul didn't mention believing when he said "hearing with faith"? If you don't think that's believing, then what would you call it?

Regarding repentance, Acts 10:43 makes it clear that "everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." And no one receives forgiveness of sins without repentance.

Repentance and believing are 2 sides of the same coin (which is salvation). Hebrew 6:1-2 confirms that: " ... not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God ..."

Jesus said, "Repent and believe in the gospel" Mark 1:15

"For the sorrow that is according to (the will of) God produces a repentance without regret, (leading) to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. 2 Cor. 7:10

Yes, "instruction about baptisms"(verse 2) follows repentance and faith, but notice it doesn't even say "baptism" itself - it says "instruction about baptisms", implying that before one is baptized, they should receive teaching about it. The King James version says "teaching about baptisms".

So Hebrews 6:1-2 makes it clear that repentance and faith, which are spiritual works in the heart of the individual comes first, which is being born again.
Following that in verse 2, comes teaching about baptisms, and laying on of hands, which are physical works performed on or for the person who has just been born again, by someone else in the body of Christ.

Following that comes teaching on the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment, which are both actions of God Himself.

So the first two foundational truths are the "actions" of the person themselves
The 2nd two are the actions of someone else in the body of Christ, either teaching them or laying hands on them.
The last two are actions of God alone.

Peter did a lot of teaching in his first recorded sermon in Acts 2.

The water baptism of new believers can happen anytime after the first two foundational steps, repentance and faith, but ideally instruction of all 6 foundational truths should be presented before water baptism.

 

[Jim]

You can claim to believe in God, in Jesus Christ, in the gospel, and reject what they say about baptism if you wish, but that rejection places you at odds with even a cursory reading of God's word.

 

[FreeInChrist]

You can claim to believe in God, in Jesus Christ, in the gospel, and reject what they say about baptism if you wish, but that rejection places you at odds with even a cursory reading of God's word.

Tra La La Twittle Dee Dee Dee you made I believe 15 for me. TYVM.

 

[TomL]

Do you understand that there is a difference between being filled with the Spirit and being indwelt with the Spirit?

Did you not understand

As Scripture shows

The filling with the Spirit which happened in Acts 2:4 is the baptism of the Holy Spirit

Acts 1:4–5 (NASB95) — 4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
The father's promise
Ezekiel 36:26–27 (LEB) — 26 And I will give a new heart to you, and a new spirit I will give into your inner parts, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh, and I will give to you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will give my spirit into your inner parts, and I will make it so that you will go in my rules, and my regulations you will remember, and you will do them.

Acts 2:1–4 (LEB) — 1 And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in the same place. 2 And suddenly a sound like a violent rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues like fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit gave them ability to speak out.

And one is baptized by the Spirit's indwelling

So they were filled, baptized, indwelt by the Spirit

 

[Jim]

Tra La La Twittle Dee Dee Dee you made I believe 15 for me. TYVM.

?????????

 

[Jim]

Did you not understand

As Scripture shows

The filling with the Spirit which happened in Acts 2:4 is the baptism of the Holy Spirit

Acts 1:4–5 (NASB95) — 4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”


Acts 2:1–4 (LEB) — 1 And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in the same place. 2 And suddenly a sound like a violent rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues like fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit gave them ability to speak out.

And one is baptized by the Spirit's indwelling

So they were filled, baptized, indwelt by the Spirit

There were quite a few individuals that had been filled with the Spirit throughout the OT. Are you suggesting that they were baptized in the Spirit?

 

[FreeInChrist]

Notice Paul did not mention repentance or believing.

However....
Paul emphasized that repentance is essential for turning to God and is often linked with faith in Jesus Christ. He preached that true repentance involves a change of mind and actions, demonstrating sincerity in one's faith

Paul's Teachings on Repentance and Belief​

Key Messages on Repentance​

• Repentance as a Command: Paul emphasized that all people are commanded to repent. He stated that God "commands all people everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30). This indicates that repentance is not optional but essential for all.
• Repentance and Change: Paul described repentance as a turning away from sin and a change in mindset. He urged people to "repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance" (Acts 26:20). This reflects the idea that true repentance involves a transformation in behavior.
• Sorrow Over Sin: Paul taught that genuine repentance includes sorrow for one's sins. This sorrow leads to a recognition of the need for forgiveness and a desire to change.

Relationship Between Repentance and Belief​

• Repentance and Faith: Paul linked repentance with faith in Jesus Christ. He preached "repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21). This suggests that while repentance is crucial, it works in conjunction with belief in Jesus for salvation.
• Not a Precondition for Salvation: Paul clarified that repentance does not serve as a condition for salvation. Instead, belief in Jesus is the primary requirement for eternal life (John 3:16-18). Repentance is seen as evidence of a genuine faith rather than a prerequisite.

Conclusion​

Paul's teachings highlight the importance of both repentance and belief in the Christian faith. Repentance is a necessary response to God's call, reflecting a change of heart and direction, while belief in Jesus is the foundation for salvation.

SO IF PAUL DID NOT MENTION "repentance or believing." IN WHAT @dwight92070 POSTED.... PAUL THOUGHT THEY TO BE IMPORTANT.

AS TO PAULS TEACHING ON IF BAPTISM IS NEEDED FOR SALVATION....

Paul taught that baptism is significant but not a requirement for salvation. He emphasized that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ, as seen in passages like Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9, which highlight that it is by grace through faith, not by works, that one is saved

Paul says in 1 Cor. 1:17 that he was not sent to baptize but to preach the gospel.​

Bible Hub

Baptism stands as a vital, scripturally mandated step of obedience for all who profess faith in Jesus. Through it, believers publicly identify with Christ’s death and resurrection, fulfilling a clear biblical command dating back to the earliest days of the Church.

However, the overwhelming biblical message points to salvation being by grace through faith in the crucified and risen Messiah. Baptism, while crucial, does not in itself secure salvation. It is, rather, the outward sign of a grace given inwardly and the faithful obedience that follows genuine belief.

As Mark 16:16 confirms, condemnation befalls “whoever does not believe,” indicating that unbelief is the decisive factor. Meanwhile, Paul’s statement in 1 Corinthians 1:17 underscores the primacy of the gospel, demonstrating that the power to save rests in Christ’s redemptive work alone. Properly understood, these verses present a cohesive biblical teaching: baptism is commanded and indispensable for faithful Christian living, yet faith in Christ’s atoning work is what ultimately grants salvation.

Got Questions
The belief that baptism is necessary for salvation is also known as " baptismal regeneration." It is our contention that baptism is an important step of obedience for a Christian, but we adamantly reject baptism as being required for salvation.

 

[FreeInChrist]

?????????

I am not going to make it.

 

[dwight92070]

You can claim to believe in God, in Jesus Christ, in the gospel, and reject what they say about baptism if you wish, but that rejection places you at odds with even a cursory reading of God's word.

"Cursory means "hasty, with no attention to detail". Maybe that explains why you don't line up with God's word. You're not paying attention to the details of the Word.

If you did, you would see that, in every instance of someone being saved or born again, that their water baptism happens AFTER that. Believing and repenting comes first, water baptism follows after believing. So there is NO indication that water baptism must occur BEFORE they have believed or in order for them to be born again.

In my case, I was baptized in water around 2 weeks after I was born again. Many at the church where I attended, went to a class on baptism before being baptized, sometimes several weeks later. This agrees with "teaching about baptisms" in Hebrews 6:2. Ideally, however, the Bible indicates an immediate teaching and baptism after being saved.

 

[Jim]

"Cursory means "hasty, with no attention to detail". Maybe that explains why you don't line up with God's word. You're not paying attention to the details of the Word.

Hasty?? I don't know how old you might be, but in my nearly 87 years, I have likely spent more time "paying attention to the details of the Word" than you.

If you did, you would see that, in every instance of someone being saved or born again, that their water baptism happens AFTER that. Believing and repenting comes first, water baptism follows after believing.

That is because you err in your assumption of at what point in the life of the repentant believer he is saved. Yes, water baptism follows believing and repentance as indicated by passages such as Acts 2:38. But also, as indicated there, forgiveness of sins and receipt of the gift of the Holy Spirit follows baptism.

So there is NO indication that water baptism must occur BEFORE they have believed or in order for them to be born again.

But you err in your assumption of at what point in the repentant believer's life he is saved. Yoy err also in what you think being born again even means.

 

[Jim]

Got Questions
The belief that baptism is necessary for salvation is also known as " baptismal regeneration." It is our contention that baptism is an important step of obedience for a Christian, but we adamantly reject baptism as being required for salvation.

No, the belief that baptism is necessary for salvation is not what is known as "baptism regeneration" Baptismal regeneration is the belief that baptism is the means whereby regeneration is obtained. That came about mostly from teachings of the RCC and is the basis for the teaching of paedobaptism. Biblical teaching on baptism makes no such claim. It does however, teach that baptism is the point in time that the repentant believer is forgiven and regenerated by God.

 

[TomL]

There were quite a few individuals that had been filled with the Spirit throughout the OT. Are you suggesting that they were baptized in the Spirit?

Nope

Just stating the baptism in the Holy Spirit is an infilling/indwelling of the Spirit

And Christ's baptism en the Holy Ghost did not precede the cross.

John 7:38–39 (NASB95) — 38 “He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

 

[FreeInChrist]

No, the belief that baptism is necessary for salvation is not what is known as "baptism regeneration" Baptismal regeneration is the belief that baptism is the means whereby regeneration is obtained. That came about mostly from teachings of the RCC and is the basis for the teaching of paedobaptism. Biblical teaching on baptism makes no such claim. It does however, teach that baptism is the point in time that the repentant believer is forgiven and regenerated by God

And without such it can not happen. TYVM

Now, this is a very serious question to you.

You were there when I was trying for an adult baptism . It just never came to fruition and the one place that I would have had no problems did not care what you believed... they would just baptise anyone for any reason, and I felt wrong about that.

Since I have BLOWN IT BIG TIME IN MY PERSONAL LIFE.....

Is there any reason I should continue to live my life as a Christian. Is there any benefit if I am not regenerated by the "book".

I did have a spiritual rebirth, but that obviously does not count.

So what do you think. Can I at last relax knowing nothing I can do in this miserable failing body of mine at this point in my life?