Gospel of Christ: Is It Law Or Did It End Law?

[civic]

Revelation 1:5,
- Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen and  repent and do the FIRST WORKS or else I will come unto thee quickly and will remove thy candlesticks out of thy place except thou repent

Jesus requires works to be saved, first works.

so you deny eternal life is permanent correct. Its really conditional life of temporal life correct and eternal life is incorrect ?

 

[Titus]

When a person believes the gospel message, confesses Christ as Lord , believes in their heart God raised Him from the dead they shall be saved as per Romans 10:9-13. Baptism follows salvation, is subsequent, follows in sequence to the regeneration of the heart being born again from above having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as a down payment.

So do you believe a person can lose their eternal life/salvation ? yes or no

Not going to another subject.

so you deny eternal life is permanent correct. Its really conditional life of temporal life correct and eternal life is incorrect ?

It's not fair to not answer questions.

Does God teach in His gospel that He requires us to do nothing ?
Is that what you are teaching?
I appreciate your concern for my spiritual welfare

You said it should be.
What if the don't get baptized?
What if they never obey this command?
Are they still saved?

By what authority are you teaching the commandment of belief is essential, 1John 3:23-24.
But other commandments of God are non- essential?
By what authority did you make this judgment

Answer my questions then I'll answer yours.

 

[civic]

Not going to another subject.

It's not fair to not answer questions.


Answer my questions then I'll answer yours.

You are making baptism essential to salvation, receiving eternal life so I'm challenging your position on baptism and losing eternal life if a person is not baptized.

Its your can of worms you opened up, not mine

 

[Titus]

You are making baptism essential to salvation, receiving eternal life so I'm challenging your position on baptism and losing eternal life if a person is not baptized.

Its your can of worms you opened up, not mine

Then you need to answer my questions first, so that I can make my arguments.

 

[civic]

Then you need to answer my questions first, so that I can make my arguments.

repeat your question thanks

 

[Titus]

Why not answer?
Simple questions deserve simple answers.

 

[Titus]

repeat your question thanks

Does God teach in His gospel that He requires us to do nothing ?
Is that what you are teaching?
I appreciate your concern for my spiritual welfare

You said it should be.
What if the don't get baptized?
What if they never obey this command?
Are they still saved?

By what authority are you teaching the commandment of belief is essential, 1John 3:23-24.
But other commandments of God are non- essential?
By what authority did you make this judgment?

Just so you know.
I wont repeat myself usually.
I dont require that of others unless I cannot comprehend their first question or answer.

 

[civic]

Why not answer?
Simple questions deserve simple answers.

Look I'm a busy person still working full time and I have a couple of forums that I started including this one. So I'm not always available at everyones beckon call all-though I try my best to accommodate everyone. Have a little patience

BTW- most people who have forums don't participate much at all and seldom engage their members. I'm the polar opposite and I wanted to make sure when this forum started I would always be active on a daily basis and available to our members.

 

[civic]

Just so you know.
I wont repeat myself usually.
I dont require that of others unless I cannot comprehend their first question or answer.

God requires faith and repentance to be saved, followed by obedience to His commands.

 

[civic]

Crickets

 

[Titus]

God requires faith and repentance to be saved, followed by obedience to His commands.

Then if we don't obey the commandments in the new testament like baptism we will be lost.
Dosen't matter if you are saved before baptism or saved in baptism.
It doesn't escape the fact that everyone must obey all of Gods commandments.
You have made baptism non-essential. Therefore the commandment of baptism is optional.

You still have not answered my question.
Since you have made belief an essential commandment that must be obeyed, 1John 3:23-24.
Heres my question:
Where did you get the authority to make other commandments non- essential, optional for eternal life?
Give a scriptural answer, book, chapter and verse.

By what authority are you teaching the commandment of belief is essential, 1John 3:23-24.
But other commandments of God are non- essential?
By what authority did you make this judgment?

If you don't give an answer this time.
You're dodging.

Giving vague, generic answers is also dodging questions

God requires faith and repentance to be saved, followed by obedience to His commands

Why folks dodge questions?
To intentionally avoid answering a question that your opponent asks usually is because the questions expose weaknesses or forces you to clarify something that makes you uncomfortable.
Dodging is used as a tactic to deflect attention or maintain control of the narrative.

I'm hoping you will defend your position.

 

[Titus]

point 1

 

[mikesw]

Then if we don't obey the commandments in the new testament like baptism we will be lost.
Dosen't matter if you are saved before baptism or saved in baptism.
It doesn't escape the fact that everyone must obey all of Gods commandments.
You have made baptism non-essential. Therefore the commandment of baptism is optional.

I had taken a Christian ethics class and it never was addressed what the basis was for the ethics. It was not clear what the focus was. Was it for staying right with Christ? Were there certain consequences of not doing the ethical actions?

 

[Titus]

I had taken a Christian ethics class and it never was addressed what the basis was for the ethics. It was not clear what the focus was. Was it for staying right with Christ? Were there certain consequences of not doing the ethical actions?

They left out the most important lesson that needs learned!!!!

 

[Titus]

If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, “I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius” (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power

This is a common verse used to discredit the essentiality of new testament baptism.

1Corinthians 1:14,
- I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius

Some argue that this verse proves baptism in not essential to salvation because Paul says he is thankful he baptized few of the Corinthians.
But to understand this correctly, we need to consider, the context of the entire first chapter.

What's Paul's actual point?
Division, that's the point.
Division brethren in the church of Corinth starting to form sects.
Sects by who baptized them.
New testament baptism in in Jesus' name.
Never by the name of the man who did the physical act of baptism.

Paul did not want any part of being involved in sectarianism.
This is why he said he was glad he had not baptized them all.
He did not want anyone replacing Jesus' baptism with the baptism of Paul.
This is heresy.
No wonder Paul wanted nothing to do with baptizing these folks.

This situation has absolutely nothing to do with Paul de-enphasizing the necessity of baptism.

Paul condemned this practise of division by dividing up who baptized who.
All new testament baptism is in the name of Christ.
This means by Gods authority. We make our appeal to God.
Submission to His will by acting in faith to be baptized into Christ, Galatians 3:26-27.

To give the praise to men and not Jesus is blasphemy.

1Corinthians 1:13,
- is Christ divided was Paul crucified for you or were ye baptized in the name of Paul
- i thank God I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius
- lest any should say I baptized in my own name(by His own authority)

- for Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the gospel....

Paul simply means the baptizer is not what they should put the emphasis on.
What matters is what baptism did for them and who should recieve glory and honor.(Jesus not men)
The baptizer is of no importance. The baptisms effect, which is in the gospel of Christ is what matters.

Did you know the new testament gives no qualifications for who can baptize?
There are qualifications for elders , decons.

But anyone can baptize.
The new testament never gave specific instructions on who is allowed to baptize.
This is why Paul had no issue with telling the church at Corinth it was not who did the baptizing that mattered but what did matter was the message, i.e. the gospel of Christ.

 

[TedT]

It doesn't escape the fact that everyone must obey all of Gods commandments.

The law was not put in place as a guide for the righteous to be obeyed...it was put in place to convict the sinful of their sin and to open their eyes to their need for a saviour.

Rom 3:20 Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin.

1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, etc, etc.

 

[Titus]

The law was not put in place as a guide for the righteous to be obeyed...it was put in place to convict the sinful of their sin and to open their eyes to their need for a saviour.

Rom 3:20 Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin.

1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, etc, etc.

How would the righteousness know to be righteous if there were no law to guide them?
But I agree that no one could be justified by law keeping of the old law of Moses. This is what Paul is teaching in Romans 3:20.
1Timothy 1:9 same.
How would you know how to live righteousness if there were no law?
You could not know righteousness if there were no law.
Paul is focusing on how the law condemns sinners to Timothy.
Paul is not teaching the righteous are not under law.

The laws main purpose was to point people towards Christ, Galatians 3:24.

The man who has chosen to live by faith(the new testament gospel which also is law) does not need the constraints or to convict as the righteous are already convicted in their hearts,
Paul is correcting false teachers that were missusing the law,
1Timothy 1:7,
- desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm

The godly, now live under the law of Christ, Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye(the righteous) one another's burdens and so fullfil the law of Christ