Gods wrath

civic

Well-known member
Notice it’s never on the innocent , righteous , holy , believers but always on the wicked and rebellious sinners. It’s not once said to be upon Christ from the Father.

Thayers lexicon

ὀργή, ὀργῆς, ἡ (from ὀργάω to teem, denoting an internal motion, especially that of plants and fruits swelling with juice (Curtius, § 152); cf.

Latinturgerealicuiforirascialicui in Plautus Cas. 2, 5, 17; Most. 3, 2, 10; cf. German arg, Aerger), in Greek writings from Hesiod down "the natural disposition, temper, character; movement or agitation of soul, impulse, desire, any violent emotion," but especially (and chiefly in Attic) anger.

In Biblical Greek anger, wrath, indignation(on the distinction between it and θυμός, see θυμός, 1): Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; James 1:19f; μετ' ὀργῆς, indignant (A. V. with anger), Mark 3:5; χωρίς ὀργῆς, 1 Timothy 2:8; anger exhibited in punishing, hence, used for the punishment itself (Demosthenes or. in middle § 43): of the punishments inflicted by magistrates,

Romans 13:4; διά τήν ὀργήν, i. e. because disobedience is visited with punishment, Romans 13:5. The ὀργή attributed to God in the N. T. is that in God which stands opposed to man's disobedience, obduracy (especially in resisting the gospel) and sin, and manifests itself in punishing the same: John 3:36; Romans 1:18; Romans 4:15; Romans 9:22a; Hebrews 3:11; Hebrews 4:3; Revelation 14:10; Revelation 16:19; Revelation 19:15; absolutely, ἡ ὀργή, Romans 12:19 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 594 (553));

σκεύη ὀργῆς, vessels into which wrath will be poured (at the last day), explained by the addition κατηρτισμέναεἰς ἀπώλειαν, Romans 9:22b; ἡ μελλουσαὀργή, which at the last day will be exhibited in penalties, Matthew 3:7; Luke 3:7 (others understand in these two passages the (national) judgments immediately impending to be referred to — at least primarily); also ἡ ὀργή ἡἐρχομένη, 1 Thessalonians 1:10; ἡμέραὀργῆς, the day on which the wrath of God will be made manifest in the punishment of the wicked (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 30, 2 a.), Romans 2:5; and ἡ ἡμέρα ἡ μεγάλητῆς ὀργῆς αὐτοῦ (Revelation 6:17; see ἡμέρα, 3 at the end); ἔρχεται ἡ ὀργή τοῦΘεοῦ ἐπί τινα, the wrath of God cometh upon one in the infliction of penalty (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 40, 2 a.), Ephesians 5:6; Colossians 3:6 (T Tr WH omit; Lbrackets ἐπί etc.); ἔφθασε (ἔφθακεν L text WH marginal reading) ἐπ' αὐτούς ἡ ὀργή, 1 Thessalonians 2:16; so ἡ ὀργή passes over into the notion of retribution and punishment, Luke 21:23; Rom. (Romans 2:8); ; Revelation 11:18; τέκνα ὀργῆς, men exposed to divine punishment, Ephesians 2:3; εἰς ὀργήν, unto wrath, i. e. to undergo punishment in misery, 1 Thessalonians 5:9. ὀργή is attributed to Christ also when he comes as Messianic judge, Revelation 6:16. (The Sept. for עֶבְרָה, wrath, outburst of anger,
 
From got ? Which also agrees with me on Gods wrath. Notice it doesn’t fall on Christ but Jesus protects believes from Gods wrath :)

Wrath is defined as “the emotional response to perceived wrong and injustice,” often translated as “anger,” “indignation,” “vexation,” or “irritation.” Both humans and God express wrath. But there is vast difference between the wrath of God and the wrath of man. God’s wrath is holy and always justified; man’s is never holy and rarely justified.

In the Old Testament, the wrath of God is a divine response to human sin and disobedience. Idolatry was most often the occasion for divine wrath. Psalm 78:56-66 describes Israel’s idolatry. The wrath of God is consistently directed towards those who do not follow His will (Deuteronomy 1:26-46; Joshua 7:1; Psalm 2:1-6). The Old Testament prophets often wrote of a day in the future, the "day of wrath" (Zephaniah 1:14-15). God’s wrath against sin and disobedience is perfectly justified because His plan for mankind is holy and perfect, just as God Himself is holy and perfect. God provided a way to gain divine favor—repentance—which turns God’s wrath away from the sinner. To reject that perfect plan is to reject God’s love, mercy, grace and favor and incur His righteous wrath.

The New Testament also supports the concept of God as a God of wrath who judges sin. The story of the rich man and Lazarus speaks of the judgment of God and serious consequences for the unrepentant sinner (Luke 16:19–31). John 3:36 says, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.” The one who believes in the Son will not suffer God’s wrath for his sin, because the Son took God’s wrath upon Himself when He died in our place on the cross (Romans 5:6–11). Those who do not believe in the Son, who do not receive Him as Savior, will be judged on the day of wrath (Romans 2:5–6).

Conversely, human wrath is warned against in Romans 12:19, Ephesians 4:26, and Colossians 3:8-10. God alone is able to avenge because His vengeance is perfect and holy, whereas man’s wrath is sinful, opening him up to demonic influence. For the Christian, anger and wrath are inconsistent with our new nature, which is the nature of Christ Himself (2 Corinthians 5:17). To realize freedom from the domination of wrath, the believer needs the Holy Spirit to sanctify and cleanse his heart of feelings of wrath and anger. Romans 8 shows victory over sin in the life of one who is living in the Spirit (Romans 8:5-8). Philippians 4:4-7 tells us that the mind controlled by the Spirit is filled with peace.

The wrath of God is a fearsome and terrifying thing. Only those who have been covered by the blood of Christ, shed for us on the cross, can be assured that God’s wrath will never fall on them. “Since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through Him!” (Romans 5:9).
 
Notice it’s never on the innocent , righteous , holy , believers but always on the wicked and rebellious sinners. It’s not once said to be upon Christ from the Father.

So you don't think Christ took the place of the sinner?

Just what was he doin' on that Cross there.
 
He was our substitute like I have pointed out ad naseum by quoting what Jesus said about His own death and its meaning. He died to cover and forgive our sins and that His blood cleanses from sin and He is our Passover just as He taught. It’s expiation, not propitiation.

But like I said no wrath on Him at all from God, it was all from sinful and rebellious man.

His sacrifice was from love, Gods love not vengeance , anger, hatred , retribution, wrath.

hope this helps !!!
 
NT The OT understanding of God’s wrath is taken for granted by the NT writers. Paul states as axiomatic that God’s wrath is universally revealed, now and always, against human impiety and injustice, inasmuch as these spring from human suppression of the truth concerning God’s eternal power and divinity (Rom. 1:18–21).

This revelation of wrath is an essential aspect of the revelation of God’s righteousness, His justification of the ungodly through the coming of Christ (v 17; 4:5). Paul adduces the vices of the gentile world as signs both of human sin and of God’s abandonment of the human race to sin, which is itself an expression of His wrath (1:24, 26, 28). He also sees wrath as active in relation to the OT revelation: the Mosaic law itself produced wrath by defining transgression (4:15).

The coming of salvation in Christ does not mean that divine wrath has been eliminated. Rather, the gospel proclamation, in calling hearers to repentance, speaks of the wrath to come (Acts 17:30f.; Rev. 14:6f.). The salvation that comes through Christ is salvation from wrath (Rom. 5:9).

The association of wrath and judgment specifically with the eschatological day of wrath is more definite in the NT (e.g., Mt. 3:7; Rom. 2:5; 5:9; 1 Thess. 1:10; Rev. 6:17), but wrath is in certain respects already resting on humankind (Jn. 3:36; 1 Thess. 2:16), because the eschaton has already been initiated by the coming of Jesus and the preaching of the gospel. In Revelation the eschatological wrath (thymós) of God is portrayed as wine (Rev. 14:10, 19; 19:15) or a cup (i.e., of wine, 16:19)—an image based on the intoxicating effect of wine which is also found in the OT (e.g., Ps. 60:3 [MT 5]; 75:8 [MT 9]; Jer. 25:15–27)—or as a series of seven bowls to be poured out (Rev. 15:7; ch 16), an image which emphasizes the multiform character of the eschatological sufferings brought on by the wrath of God. ISBE

hope this helps !!!
 
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So you don't think Christ took the place of the sinner?

Just what was he doin' on that Cross there.
This from Got ? is another reason I have pointed out many times over the past several years why I reject PSA. I just found this article this morning from another posted who linked it and I read it.

PSA is an assault upon the character and nature of the Tri-Unity of God.

"Perichoresis is the fellowship of three co-equal Persons perfectly embraced in love and harmony and expressing an intimacy that no one can humanly comprehend. The Father sends the Son (John 3:16), and the Spirit proceeds from the Father and was sent by the Son (John 15:26)—another example of perichoresis, with the result that God’s people are blessed.

There is nothing that separates the Persons of the Trinity or interrupts the mysterious interchange of perichoresis. It can be imagined as a Venn diagram showing three circles intersecting in the center with each circle intersecting the others perfectly and multi-dimensionally, as they rotate about a common center of divine love."

 
So you don't think Christ took the place of the sinner?

Just what was he doin' on that Cross there.
Jesus didn't take the place of a sinner. He took His place as the Redeemer who gave His life to purchase us with His own blood.

"Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood. " (Act 20:28)

The sinner is given the wrath of God. The Redeemer is given an assembly "because he poured out his soul to death, and was counted with the transgressors; yet he bore the sins of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.".

Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

Our Lord never suffered the wrath of God. You will not find anything in the bible that states or implies such a thing. And you will not find one time where the Lord was punished for our sins.

What you will find over and over is that He gave His life as the payment for our salvation. His blood ratified the New Covenant when God "will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”

The Lord is the Redeemer; one who sets slaves free by purchasing them.

God Bless
 
Jesus didn't take the place of a sinner. He took His place as the Redeemer who gave His life to purchase us with His own blood.

"Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood. " (Act 20:28)

The sinner is given the wrath of God. The Redeemer is given an assembly "because he poured out his soul to death, and was counted with the transgressors; yet he bore the sins of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.".

Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

Our Lord never suffered the wrath of God. You will not find anything in the bible that states or implies such a thing. And you will not find one time where the Lord was punished for our sins.

What you will find over and over is that He gave His life as the payment for our salvation. His blood ratified the New Covenant when God "will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”

The Lord is the Redeemer; one who sets slaves free by purchasing them.

God Bless
Excellent post my friend , well said !!!
 
Jesus didn't take the place of a sinner. He took His place as the Redeemer who gave His life to purchase us with His own blood.

"Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood. " (Act 20:28)

The sinner is given the wrath of God. The Redeemer is given an assembly "because he poured out his soul to death, and was counted with the transgressors; yet he bore the sins of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.".

Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

Our Lord never suffered the wrath of God. You will not find anything in the bible that states or implies such a thing. And you will not find one time where the Lord was punished for our sins.

What you will find over and over is that He gave His life as the payment for our salvation. His blood ratified the New Covenant when God "will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”

The Lord is the Redeemer; one who sets slaves free by purchasing them.

God Bless
Joe how do you interpret 1 Peter 3:18 and Isaiah 53:4-6 ? Thanks

1 Peter 3
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the
Spirit

.Isaiah 53
“Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering. . . .
He was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;

the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed. . . .
The Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all”
 
Joe how do you interpret 1 Peter 3:18 and Isaiah 53:4-6 ? Thanks

1 Peter 3
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the
Spirit

.Isaiah 53
“Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering. . . .
He was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed. . . .
The Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all”
Hi Brother,

Thank you for asking.

What has been revealed to us in the bible is God our Father sent His Son to redeem us from the curse of the Law. We get an understanding of this from the OT with the priesthood and sacrificial system. The sacrifice was instituted as the means to make reconciliation for our soul, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement (reconciliation) for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement (reconciliation) by the life."

The OT sacrificial system points to the realities we have been given in Christ; that, firstly, God is the One who must reconcile us to Him for we are completely unable. Therefore, because He loved us, He sent His one and only Son into this world to be the sin offering that removes the sin of the world; that the sinless-spotless Son of God willingly gives up his life explicitly on account of our sins to set us free; that like all atoning sacrifices the purpose of His death was to make reconciliation for the soul that sinned. In the case with our Lord, His single righteous act of giving up His life in love and obedience to His Father and out of love for us permanently reconciles the believer to God forever.

It would be easier to understand by replacing the words that imply someone with something.

1 Peter 3
For the lamb also suffered once for sins, the spotless (righteous) for the spotted (unrighteous), to bring you to God. It was put to death in the body...

.Isaiah 53
“Surely the lamb took up our pain
and bore our suffering. . . .
It was pierced for our transgressions,
It was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by its wounds we are healed. . . .
The Lord has laid on it
the iniquity of us all”

Jesus is our Redeemer. He purchased us with His own blood, setting us free from slavery to sin. "Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." (Joh 8:34-36)

Our Lord bought us out of the old covenant with His sinless life and established a new one where He is the Mediator and Great High Priest. We are no longer under Law, but under grace. And this being true, so then this is too, "where there is no law there is no transgression."

Jesus put an end to sin, brought in everlasting righteousness, and reconciled us to God...All of this is God's doings!

God Bless
 
Hi Brother,

Thank you for asking.

What has been revealed to us in the bible is God our Father sent His Son to redeem us from the curse of the Law. We get an understanding of this from the OT with the priesthood and sacrificial system. The sacrifice was instituted as the means to make reconciliation for our soul, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement (reconciliation) for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement (reconciliation) by the life."

The OT sacrificial system points to the realities we have been given in Christ; that, firstly, God is the One who must reconcile us to Him for we are completely unable. Therefore, because He loved us, He sent His one and only Son into this world to be the sin offering that removes the sin of the world; that the sinless-spotless Son of God willingly gives up his life explicitly on account of our sins to set us free; that like all atoning sacrifices the purpose of His death was to make reconciliation for the soul that sinned. In the case with our Lord, His single righteous act of giving up His life in love and obedience to His Father and out of love for us permanently reconciles the believer to God forever.

It would be easier to understand by replacing the words that imply someone with something.

1 Peter 3
For the lamb also suffered once for sins, the spotless (righteous) for the spotted (unrighteous), to bring you to God. It was put to death in the body...

.Isaiah 53
“Surely the lamb took up our pain
and bore our suffering. . . .
It was pierced for our transgressions,
It was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by its wounds we are healed. . . .
The Lord has laid on it
the iniquity of us all”

Jesus is our Redeemer. He purchased us with His own blood, setting us free from slavery to sin. "Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." (Joh 8:34-36)

Our Lord bought us out of the old covenant with His sinless life and established a new one where He is the Mediator and Great High Priest. We are no longer under Law, but under grace. And this being true, so then this is too, "where there is no law there is no transgression."

Jesus put an end to sin, brought in everlasting righteousness, and reconciled us to God...All of this is God's doings!

God Bless
I appreciate the response and I see it the same way as you. I didn’t know for sure if you might have had a different slant on those passages. It looks like you and I are on the exact same page when it comes to the atonement of Christ for sin. Thanks brother for taking the time to explain it here.
 
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