God's grace to forgive and transform is not conditioned to recognizing Jesus' deity, blood atonement or physical resurrection

My friend, in Ezekiel 18 God urges people to seek repentance and regeneration now, not in a distant future.
There is no prediction here. There is an urgent call to action.

Ezekiel 18:31,32 (New King James)

Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit... For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”

I have reviewed several translations. In all of them God's call is not for a distant future. It is an urgent call about what Ezekiel's audience must do at that time.

So, the idea that people at the time of Ezekiel could not be regenerated has been refuted.

And also, if I might humbly add, David in the Psalms, Inspired by the Same Spirit, teaches;

Ps. 95: 6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker. 7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Truly, according to the Holy Bible, God's call to "get ourselves a new heart and a new Spirit" is the moment we hear His Instruction to do so. Which makes perfect sense as we do not know when our end will come.

So the popular teaching of "Got Questions" or the BBS or other religious franchises, that this instruction was for some future time, or future generation, has truly been refuted. And not by your religious opinion, or someone else's religious opinion, but by the very easy to understand Words of God that Jesus said we are to Live by. Words we all have heard, if we can only believe them.
 
And also, if I might humbly add, David in the Psalms, Inspired by the Same Spirit, teaches;

Ps. 95: 6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker. 7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Truly, according to the Holy Bible, God's call to "get ourselves a new heart and a new Spirit" is the moment we hear His Instruction to do so. Which makes perfect sense as we do not know when our end will come.

So the popular teaching of "Got Questions" or the BBS or other religious franchises, that this instruction was for some future time, or future generation, has truly been refuted. And not by your religious opinion, or someone else's religious opinion, but by the very easy to understand Words of God that Jesus said we are to Live by. Words we all have heard, if we can only believe them.

Yes, my brother: the doctor calls the patient to accept an immediate surgical intervention to save her life... the doctor is not calling the patient to take a turn and sit in a waiting room for centuries, until the doctor arrives to restore her health.

“Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other." (Isaiah 45:22)
 
My friend, in Ezekiel 18 God urges people to seek repentance and regeneration now, not in a distant future.
There is no prediction here. There is an urgent call to action.
Future, according to context and syntax.

Hebrew Text of Ezekiel 18:31 (MT):
וְנָתַתִּי לָכֶם לֵב חָדָשׁ וְרוּחַ חֲדָשָׁה

Transliteration: v'natati lachem lev chadash v'ruach chadashah
Translation: "And I will give to you a new heart and a new spirit."

Morphological and Syntactical Analysis Revisited:
וְנָתַתִּי (v'natati)

Root: נָתַן (natan) = "to give."
Form: Qal (simple action), first-person singular, perfect with vav-consecutive.

Explanation: In Hebrew, the vav-consecutive (וְ prefix) attached to a perfect verb form converts the tense to future.
Translation: "I will give."


Morphhology:Verb : Qal (Simple, Active) Consecutive Perfect (Future/present Indicative) First Singular Either gender
Grammar:performing an ACTION OR ACTIVITY that is done, as incompletely as the preceding action, in the future or present by a male or female person or thing that is speaking or writing this
Source:[Tag=L] Leningrad
Additional:to give, deliver, send, produce

לָכֶם (lachem)

Preposition: לְ (le) = "to."
Suffix: Second-person masculine plural (-chem), meaning "to you (plural)."
Role: Indicates the indirect object, specifying the recipients of the action.
לֵב חָדָשׁ (lev chadash)

Noun Phrase: "a new heart."
Components:
לֵב (lev): Masculine singular noun meaning "heart."
חָדָשׁ (chadash): Masculine singular adjective meaning "new," matching the gender and number of lev.
וְרוּחַ חֲדָשָׁה (v'ruach chadashah)

Conjunction: וְ (v') = "and," connecting the two clauses.
Noun Phrase: "a new spirit."
Components:
רוּחַ (ruach): Feminine singular noun meaning "spirit."
חֲדָשָׁה (chadashah): Feminine singular adjective meaning "new," matching the gender and number of ruach.

Syntax in the Future Tense:
Verb: The use of v'natati with the vav-consecutive converts the perfect verb form into a future tense, indicating a prophetic or divine promise of action.


Object and Modifiers: Both lev chadash and ruach chadashah are direct objects of v'natati, forming parallel structures for emphasis.
Word Order:

The verb precedes the objects and modifiers, a typical Hebrew structure that aligns with expressing divine future actions.

J.
 
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Future, according to context and syntax.


The verb precedes the objects and modifiers, a typical Hebrew structure that aligns with expressing divine future actions.

J.
Even if your linguistic analysis is correct, future does not mean distant future (say, 600 years ahead) but immediate future, the consequence of repenting. "If you take the medicine, you will preserve your life" is for all practical purposes the same as saying "If you take the medicine, you preserve your life". The patient is not expected to understand that his health will be restored in some distant and vague future.
What the doctor and his patient want is a restoration to health conditions as a direct an immediate result of the treatment applied.

Considering the context,

  1. It is absurd to think that God wants a man to repent from violence, only to keep a violent heart. Or to repent from adultery, only to keep an adulterous heart. Repentance implies a transformation of the life, or it is not repentance.
  2. Verse 21 presents this future as an immediate future " But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die." It is the very same thing to say "If you take the medicine, you preserve your life" than saying "If you take the medicine, you will preserve your life".
  3. The immediate nature of the future is clarified in the same passage, in verse 27: "when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die." How is that the text says that repented man "preserves" himself alive, in the present, and also says that he "shall" surely live, in the future? Because one thing is immediate consequence of the other. This is a promise to be enjoyed in this life. Not a prophecy about what will happen 600 years ahead.
We have already presented how only a regenerated man can speak as David spoke of himself after having been received a new heart from God.
So there is no escape. The idea that people in the Old Testament were not changed spiritually has no grounds. It has been refuted.

My advice: Stop denying reality. God changes the life of all people from all times, nations, backgrounds and religions.
 
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My last post took for granted, as a starting point, that @Johann rendition of the sentence in the future is grammatically correct.
However, for the record, here is a list of the 57 translations to Ezekiel 18:31 available through Bible Gateway. None of them renders the renewal of the heart and spirit in the future. All of them render the renewal as an imperative. This in includes the Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB).



KJ21
Cast away from you all your transgressions whereby ye have transgressed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why will ye die, O house of Israel?
ASV
Cast away from you all your transgressions, wherein ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
AMP
Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed [against Me], and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why should you die, O house of Israel?
AMPC
Cast away from you all your transgressions by which you have transgressed against Me, and make you a new mind and heart and a new spirit. For why will you die, O house of Israel?
BRG
¶ Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new Spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
CSB
Throw off all the transgressions you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, house of Israel?
CEB
Abandon all of your repeated sins. Make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, house of Israel?
CJB
Throw far away from yourselves all your crimes that you committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit; for why should you die, house of Isra’el?
CEV
Give up your evil ways and start thinking pure thoughts. And be faithful to me! Do you really want to be put to death for your sins?
DARBY
Cast away from you all your transgressions wherewith ye have transgressed, and make you a new heart and a new spirit: why then will ye die, house of Israel?
DRA
Cast away from you all your transgressions, by which you have transgressed, and make to yourselves a new heart, and a new spirit: and why will you die, O house of Israel?
ERV
Throw away all the terrible idols with which you committed your crimes! Change your heart and spirit. People of Israel, why should you do things that will cost you your life?
EASY
Stop doing all the sins that you have been doing. Instead, think with new thoughts. Live with a new spirit inside you. You do not need to die, Israel's people!
EHV
Throw off from yourselves all your rebellious actions by which you have rebelled, and obtain a new heart and a new spirit for yourselves. Why should you die, O house of Israel?
ESV
Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel?
ESVUK
Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel?
EXB
·Get rid of [Throw away] all the ·sins [transgressions; offenses] you have done, and ·get [make] for yourselves a new heart and a new ·way of thinking [spirit]. Why ·do you want to [should you] die, ·people [L house] of Israel?
GNV
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
GW
Stop all the rebellious things that you are doing. Get yourselves new hearts and new spirits. Why do you want to die, nation of Israel?
GNT
Give up all the evil you have been doing, and get yourselves new minds and hearts. Why do you Israelites want to die?
HCSB
Throw off all the transgressions you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, house of Israel?
ICB
Get rid of all the sins you have done. And get for yourselves a new heart and a new way to think. Why do you want to die, people of Israel?
ISV
Stop your transgressing—the deeds by which you’ve rebelled—and then make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, you house of Israel?
JUB
Cast away from you all your iniquities by which ye have rebelled, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
KJV
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
AKJV
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
LSB
Cast away from yourselves all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Now why will you die, O house of Israel?
LEB
Throw away from yourselves all of your transgressions that you committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and new spirit, and so why will you die, house of Israel?
TLB
Put them behind you and receive a new heart and a new spirit. For why will you die, O Israel?
MSG
“The upshot is this, Israel: I’ll judge each of you according to the way you live. So turn around! Turn your backs on your rebellious living so that sin won’t drag you down. Clean house. No more rebellions, please. Get a new heart! Get a new spirit! Why would you choose to die, Israel? I take no pleasure in anyone’s death. Decree of God, the Master. “Make a clean break! Live!”
MEV
Cast away from you all your transgressions whereby you have transgressed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why will you die, O house of Israel?
NOG
Stop all the rebellious things that you are doing. Get yourselves new hearts and new spirits. Why do you want to die, nation of Israel?
NABRE
Cast away from you all the crimes you have committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, house of Israel?
NASB
Hurl away from you all your offenses which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why should you die, house of Israel?
NASB1995
Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?
NCB
Cast away from you all the transgressions you have committed, and strengthen yourself with a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, O house of Israel?
NCV
Get rid of all the sins you have done, and get for yourselves a new heart and a new way of thinking. Why do you want to die, people of Israel?
NET
Throw away all your sins you have committed and fashion yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why should you die, O house of Israel?
NIRV
Get rid of all the evil things you have done. Let me give you a new heart and a new spirit. Then you will be faithful to me. Why should you die, people of Israel?
NIV
Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?
NIVUK
Rid yourselves of all the offences you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?
NKJV
Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?
NLV
Turn away from all the sins you have done, and get a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O people of Israel?
NLT
Put all your rebellion behind you, and find yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O people of Israel?
NRSVA
Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed against me, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel?
NRSVACE
Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed against me, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel?
NRSVCE
Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed against me, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel?
NRSVUE
Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed against me, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel?

OJB
Cast away from you all your peysha’im, whereby ye have committed peysha; and get you a lev chadash and a ruach chadashah [i.e., regeneration, new birth see Yn 3:3]; for why will ye die, O Bais Yisroel?

RGT
“Cast away from you all your transgressions by which you have transgressed and make yourself a new heart and a new spirit. For why will you die, O House of Israel?
RSV
Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed against me, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel?
RSVCE
Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed against me, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel?
TLV
Cast off from you all your transgressions that you have committed. Make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, house of Israel?
VOICE
Get rid of all your wicked ways! Acquire a new heart and a new spirit! Why would you choose to die, people of Israel?
WEB
Cast away from you all your transgressions, in which you have transgressed; and make yourself a new heart and a new spirit: for why will you die, house of Israel?
WYC
Cast away from you all your trespassings, by which ye trespassed, and make ye a new heart and a new spirit to you (and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit), and then why shall ye die, the house of Israel?
YLT
Cast from off you all your transgressions, By which ye have transgressed, And make to you a new heart, and a new spirit, And why do ye die, O house of Israel?
 
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That’s exactly why we should read the Big Book of Nature in addition to reading the books of the Bible.

It is not. God created our cells with the same basic biology of any other animal cell.
If someone believes that the body of trilobites were created to die but the body of humans was created to be eternal, such belief is no more than superstition.

I’m not assuming stuff. Fossils are there, genomics is there, and they speak as loudly and truly as any revelation from God.


Wrong strategy.
Wherever the Bible is silent (and whereever the Bible is not silent), we have from God reason, and science.
Any religious belief that is against reality as revealed by science has a name: superstition.


The application of Military self-defense is appropriate when it is feasible and reasonable.
You will have no issue in shooting the person who is about to kill your family.

Of course it is not violence. Do you think that Yahweh of the Old Testament was violent?
Your brazen attacks against Genesis, the Cross, and Pentecost will not succeed.

Calling Genesis a myth is an insult. Genesis does not clash with Science because Science says nothing about the Universe and Animals other than God created them. So whatever state of existence the Universe and Animals were in before Adam's fall that does not contradict the Bible at all. That they experienced death does not contradict the Bible either. Actually, that fact does align with the Bible when you consider that the fallen angels were banished to Earth and the Earth became plagued by their sin. Thus, it's allah who has proven himself to be the god of Myths.

Your continuous attempts to neutralize the Cross will not work. Placing your "principles of self-defense" above the message of the Cross shows your misunderstanding of the Christian faith. The most startling proof of the dire necessity of the Cross is our future Resurrection. If you believe that we will be resurrected then you must believe in the Cross. It's only possible if the Cross happened. Allah has proven that he is the god of death with no power over death.

Your continuous attempts to neutralize Pentecost (our Regeneration) will not work. That event inagurated the beginnings of God's redemptive plan wherein the Holy Spirit will dwell within believers and seal them for eternal life. Allah has no understanding of the Holy Spirit and the life that the Holy Spirit imparts to us because allah is the god of death, as evidenced by the Jew-hating cut-throat verses of his Quran.
 
My last post took for granted, as a starting point, that @Johann rendition of the sentence in the future is grammatically correct.
However, for the record, here is a list of the 57 translations to Ezekiel 18:31 available through Bible Gateway. None of them renders the renewal of the heart and spirit in the future. All of them render the renewal as an imperative. This in includes the Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB).



KJ21
Cast away from you all your transgressions whereby ye have transgressed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why will ye die, O house of Israel?
ASV
Cast away from you all your transgressions, wherein ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
AMP
Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed [against Me], and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why should you die, O house of Israel?
"And the Rest"


Excellent way to come to the knowledge of the Truth of Scriptures, and to prove all things to see if a sermon you have heard, is Inspired by God's Spirit, from God's Inspired Word, or from the imagination of a random religious man's heart. As we are all instructed to do.

And if you don't mind, I would also make another important point. Even if I am living in a sod house, in Custer County Nebraska in the middle of the Dust Bowl in 1932, as my Grandparents did. And was too poor to have in their possession 50 different Bible translations, or even 2. Or was too poor to have the opportunity to take Greek and Hebrew language courses or lived in a place where these were not available to me. Even if I didn't have the BBC or "Got Questions" to show me how to think or what the Bible means, they could still study a KJV or other single Translation and come to the exact same Truth of God that you and I have come to. To deny this would be foolishness in my view.

And this would be through following the instructions of the Jesus "of the Bible" and consider "Every Word" Inspired in whatever translation God was so gracious to have delivered to us.

By "doing" this, I would know God's instruction to Cain.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

And I would know that this isn't about a future time centuries later as Civic and Johann would have us believe. But for the immediate future. Cain would be accepted the moment he repented from his heart from doing evil, and doing instead, that which he was taught by God is good. This wouldn't produce in him a loving heart next year, of even next week. But would produce fruits of a changed man at that moment and this changed heart would grow and grow as a "newborn" grows. And being regenerated, or as Ezekiel says in all translations, get/find/receive/make in yourselves a new heart and a new spirit, the strength, will, desire, Spirit, to love his brother would become evident in his works right away, not in some distant future. And he would not have killed his brother for no cause.

And Abram when He heard God's Voice to leave His old life, didn't harden his heart, as Cain did after he heard God's voice. And Abram was accepted by God right then. And was blessed in his life on earth, above the Sodomites who heard God's Voice but hardened their hearts. And Caleb listened to God and was renewed in the spirit of his mind, as God said of him.

Num. 14: 24 But my servant Caleb, because he had "another spirit" with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

Caleb also leaving his old life of sin, regenerated into a New Man with a New Spirit, as he promised to God when he heard God's voice.

Ex. 19: 7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces "all these words which the LORD commanded him". 8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

And like Abram he was true to his word and even to this day God has Glorified him and blessed him even in death. And he will live again at the return of the Lord's Christ.

And these examples go on and on.

Psalms 8: 7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

And what has God said to every generation of man from the first sin to the present?

"Cast away from you all your transgressions whereby ye have transgressed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Just as His Son, the Jesus of the Bible promotes the same Gospel.

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Great topic of discussion. Great post Pancho.
 
THE MEANING OF 1 PETER 1:3

Our brother @civic has mentioned 1 Peter 1:3 as supporting the notion that before the resurrection of Jesus Christ, nobody had been regenerated. The text says:

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,"

I sustain that the effect of Christ resurrection in our personal transformation has little or nothing to do with believing in the physicality of a resurrection, but with the embedding of its spiritual meaning in our life.

Through history, thousands or millions of people have upheld the physicality of Christ resurrection (including Popes) without having any impact on the regeneration of their wicked lives.
I honestly don't think that a violent, hateful and lustful man seeks repentance and regeneration because he has realized that Jesus Christ has arms, feet and lungs. Such man seeks repentance and regeneration because he wants to "die and be buried" to a life of violence, hatred and lust, and "resuscitate" into a life of peace, love and temperance.

Scriptures give evidence that it is the meaning of Christ resurrection what is relevant in our personal regeneration.
One interesting evidence is that resurrection and baptism are assigned the same meaning: the burial of our old man.
Besides, the belief in the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ provided a common ground for unity of the early Christians, whether from Jewish or Greek origin. Let's review these seven passages:

  1. Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life... For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, (Romans 6:4,5)
  2. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. (Romans 7:4)
  3. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you (Romans 8:11)
  4. even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, (Ephesians 2:5,6)
  5. buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. (Colossians 2:12)
  6. If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. (Col 3:1)
  7. There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 3:21)
 
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Your brazen attacks against Genesis, the Cross, and Pentecost will not succeed.
I'm not attacking Genesis, the Cross or Pentecost.
I'm challenging your interpretation of some specific aspects of the Genesis, the Cross or Pentecost. Perhaps not even that... I am challenging any demand that anyone else can place to a non-Christian in order to be forgiven and transformed.

I am an ant. Genesis, the Cross and Pentecost are mountains. The ant cannot attack the mountains.
What I mean is that they are what they are, regardless of what Pancho Frijoles thinks or writes in this Forum.

From my side, I don't think you are attacking Allah.
You are just freely expressing your opinion and feelings, which I attribute to your current circumstances.
I pray to God to keep blessing you as a Christian. I want you to remain Christian and become the best possible Christian.
 
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I'm not attacking Genesis, the Cross or Pentecost.
I'm challenging your interpretation of some specific aspects of the Genesis, the Cross or Pentecost. Perhaps not even that... I am challenging any demand that anyone else can place to a non-Christian in order to be forgiven and transformed.

I am an ant. Genesis, the Cross and Pentecost are mountains. The ant cannot attack the mountains.
What I mean is that they are what they are, regardless of what Pancho Frijoles thinks or writes in this Forum.

From my side, I don't think you are attacking Allah.
You are just freely expressing your opinion and feelings, which I attribute to your current circumstances.
I pray to God to keep blessing you as a Christian. I want you to remain Christian and become the best possible Christian.
I see that you didn't offer any counterargument against any of my assertions. Is that your final word on my comments?
 
So whatever state of existence the Universe and Animals were in before Adam's fall that does not contradict the Bible at all.
If I understand you correctly, it may be reasonable to accept that the trillions of living organisms that existed on earth for almost 4 billion years had mortal bodies... EXCEPT by the first men, who were meant to be immortal.
If I understand you correctly, a wrong moral choice from the first men corrupted human DNA, which acquired the death-leading properties observed in the rest of the animals.

There is something I cannot understand correctly from you:
If you came to believe that biological death is indeed a natural process of God's creation, how would that change your love for Jesus and your desire to serve Him?
 
If I understand you correctly, it may be reasonable to accept that the trillions of living organisms that existed on earth for almost 4 billion years had mortal bodies... EXCEPT by the first men, who were meant to be immortal.
If I understand you correctly, a wrong moral choice from the first men corrupted human DNA, which acquired the death-leading properties observed in the rest of the animals.
God responded to man's wrong moral choice by instituting the seperation of body and soul for man. Before Adam's sin, there was no such thing for man.
There is something I cannot understand correctly from you:
If you came to believe that biological death is indeed a natural process of God's creation, how would that change your love for Jesus and your desire to serve Him?
First, that would prove that he (and the Father) has no power over death. Second, that would prove that Genesis is indeed a myth. Someone who promotes myths and has no power over death is no god.
 
The most startling proof of the dire necessity of the Cross is our future Resurrection. If you believe that we will be resurrected then you must believe in the Cross. It's only possible if the Cross happened.
I don't feel the need of lungs, stomach, skin or a penis to enjoy whatever God has for me in his dwellings. What about you?

Your continuous attempts to neutralize Pentecost (our Regeneration) will not work.
Pentecost, the historical event, is not your regeneration. You are confused.
I rather invite you to seek regular Pentecosts in your life. That is regeneration.

That event inagurated the beginnings of God's redemptive plan
No, it didn't. God's redemptive plan is present from the foundation of the world and has been active since humans exist.

Allah has no understanding of the Holy Spirit and the life that the Holy Spirit imparts to us because
Allah has total understanding of everything, including your heart, suffering and motivations.
allah is the god of death, as evidenced by the Jew-hating cut-throat verses of his Quran.
You have been properly refuted on Post 717 and others. Bring your counterarguments. You haven't done so.
For example, you haven't brought any text in the NT portraying the military instructions given by Moses or Samuel as not divinely inspired, or evil.
You haven't brought a counterargument on why Christian saints did not oppose military self defense in Christian kingdoms.
You haven't brought an explanation on why you accuse Muhammad of something Moses and Samuel also did, if the three faced the circumstance of war.
You haven't retracted from your argument that the Quran is considered holy as a whole, not parts of it, when you also consider the Bible holy as a whole, not parts of it.
You haven't explained why you think YHWH in the OT is not a violent God, but you sustain that Allah is a violent God.

Until you focus on solid counterarguments, your statements about Allah or the Quran are a miserable cry of impotence.
 
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I don't feel the need of lungs, stomach, skin or a penis to enjoy whatever God has for me in his dwellings. What about you?
Let the records show that you are mocking the Resurrection.
Pentecost, the historical event, is not your regeneration. You are confused.
I rather invite you to seek regular Pentecosts in your life. That is regeneration.
Our Personal Pentecost is our Baptism (Spiritual & Physical).
No, it didn't. God's redemptive plan is present from the foundation of the world and has been active since humans exist.
It has been present since Adam's sin. Allah's redemptive attempt is utterly futile and non-existent because it's been proven that he has no power over death.
Allah has total understanding of everything, including your heart, suffering and motivations.
He has no understanding of Pentecost which proves he is no God.
You have been properly refuted on Post 717 and others. Bring your counterarguments. You haven't done so.
Just open your Quran and you will see all the Jew-hating cut-throat verses of allah's Quran.
For example, you haven't brought any text in the NT portraying the military instructions given by Moses or Samuel as not divinely inspired, or evil.
They have been abrogated by the NT and more specifically by the Cross.
You haven't brought a counterargument on why Christian saints did not oppose military self defense in Christian kingdoms.
That is a function of the State. We're talking about the Church here, not Politics. Do you believe in the seperation of Church and State?

Placing your "principles of self-defense" above the message of the Cross shows your misunderstanding of the Christian faith.
You haven't brought an explanation on why you accuse Muhammad of something Moses and Samuel also did, if the three faced the circumstance of war.
The NT has evolved above and beyond the violence of the Quran and OT through its abrogations. If you want to wallow in that ancient way of thinking then so be it.
 
My last post took for granted, as a starting point, that @Johann rendition of the sentence in the future is grammatically correct.
However, for the record, here is a list of the 57 translations to Ezekiel 18:31 available through Bible Gateway. None of them renders the renewal of the heart and spirit in the future. All of them render the renewal as an imperative. This in includes the Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB).
Well thank you-why consult the other translation when a prophetic future is mentioned?

The future tense used in Ezekiel 18:31 (v’natati lachem lev chadash v’ruach chadashah) reflects a prophetic future, which is a common feature in biblical Hebrew. This grammatical and syntactical construction is used to express a divine promise or declaration of future action, often tied to the covenantal relationship between God and His people.

Prophetic Future in Biblical Hebrew
Divine Agency:
The speaker in the verse is God, addressing His people. The prophetic future often involves God declaring what He will do to fulfill His purposes, indicating certainty and divine sovereignty.

The Vav-Consecutive with the Perfect Form:

The verb v’natati (וְנָתַתִּי), which is perfect in form but prefixed by the vav-consecutive (וְ), transforms the action into a future tense.
In prophetic language, this construction emphasizes the surety of fulfillment, as though the action has already been completed from God’s perspective.
Covenantal Renewal Context:

The promise of a "new heart" (lev chadash) and "new spirit" (ruach chadashah) is tied to themes of spiritual renewal and restoration.
This aligns with the prophetic tradition, where future declarations often concern Israel's return to righteousness, reconciliation with God, and the fulfillment of eschatological promises.
Prophetic Style and Imagery:

Ezekiel frequently uses symbolic and eschatological language to describe future events, especially restoration and divine intervention.
The "new heart" and "new spirit" metaphorically represent internal transformation, a key aspect of prophetic visions for Israel's future.
Interpretation as Prophetic Future
The verse's prophetic nature is reinforced by its context:

It forms part of a larger discourse on repentance, renewal, and individual responsibility (Ezekiel 18:30–32).
The promise of internal renewal is forward-looking, emphasizing God’s intent to transform His people in a future era of restoration.
While the grammar (vav-consecutive with the perfect form) signals future action, the context and divine declaration classify it as a prophetic future, rooted in God's sovereign will and redemptive plan.


Septuagint Text of Ezekiel 18:31
ἀπόστρεψον ἀφ' ὑμῶν πάσας τὰς ἀνομίας ὑμῶν καὶ ποιήσατε ἑαυτοῖς καρδίαν καινὴν καὶ πνεῦμα καινόν.

Transliteration:
apostrepson aph' hymōn pasas tas anomias hymōn kai poiēsate heautois kardian kainēn kai pneuma kainon.

Translation:
"Turn away from all your iniquities, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit."

Analysis of Future Aspect in the LXX
Grammatical Shift in the LXX:

The Hebrew verb v'natati ("I will give") is rendered in the LXX with an imperative form: ποιήσατε ("make"), suggesting a command rather than a direct promise of God's future action.

The imperative (poiēsate) emphasizes the human role in the renewal process, calling for active repentance and transformation.
Future Tense Adjustments:

The LXX changes the original Hebrew emphasis from a divine future action (I will give) to a human responsibility (make for yourselves).
While this alters the nuance of the text, the underlying prophetic intent remains: the verse is still forward-looking, envisioning a transformation necessary for reconciliation with God.
Contextual Consistency:

The LXX aligns with the immediate exhortation in Ezekiel 18 for repentance and a changed heart, while the Hebrew MT places stronger emphasis on God's future intervention in granting the transformation.
Conclusion on the Future Aspect in the LXX

The LXX downplays the explicitly divine future promise found in the Hebrew text by rephrasing it as a call to human action, but the eschatological and prophetic implications remain. The prophetic future in the Hebrew emphasizes God’s sovereignty, while the LXX highlights human accountability, reflecting a subtle theological shift rather than a complete departure from the future-oriented vision of renewal.

J.
 
You haven't retracted from your argument that the Quran is considered holy as a whole, not parts of it, when you also consider the Bible holy as a whole, not parts of it.
You haven't explained why you think YHWH in the OT is not a violent God, but you sustain that Allah is a violent God.

Until you focus on solid counterarguments, your statements about Allah or the Quran are a miserable cry of impotence.
The NT has evolved above and beyond the violence of the Quran and OT through its abrogations. If you want to wallow in that ancient way of thinking then so be it.

Conclusion: It's your allah's quran that is the epitome of a "miserable cry of impotence" because it's been proven that your allah has no power over death and that he considers Genesis as just a myth. Someone who promotes myths and has no power over death is no God.
 
The NT has evolved above and beyond the violence of the Quran and OT
So you’re calling the OT violent. If God issued the military orders through his Messengers, and those orders are violent, then you consider God violent and his Messengers accomplices.Would Jesus agree with you? Certainly not. He never considered His Father, the God of Israel, a violent God.
through its abrogations.
Abrogations of what?
The orders of Moses and Samuel were specific for a situation. When the situation is no longer present, the orders are not applicable.
So, there is no need to abrogate anything. The NT did not need abrogate any military order. You have failed to bring a single verse to support such “abrogation”
Whenever the situation reappeared, the instructions would reappear.


If you want to wallow in that ancient way of thinking then so be it.

Conclusion: It's your allah's quran that is the epitome of a "miserable cry of impotence" because it's been proven that your allah has no power over death and that he considers Genesis as just a myth. Someone who promotes myths and has no power over death is no God.
  1. Your conclusion is not rational
  2. Allah created your body to die and be recycled. That is wise and good.
  3. Allah is God and forgives you for free.
  4. Any god that demands blood in exchange for mercy is an impostor.
 
Well thank you-why consult the other translation when a prophetic future is mentioned?

The future tense used in Ezekiel 18:31 (v’natati lachem lev chadash v’ruach chadashah) reflects a prophetic future,
No, it does not, for two reasons:
First, Biblical prophets seldom predict events in the distant future. Most of the time they make calls to immediate action, as Messengers from God.
Second, The analysis you have presented is not supported by the context, by logic and by the scholarly opinion of 54 boards of translators.
If you believe that Gods forgives without changing the life of the person He forgives, you believe an absurdity. There is no other way to put it, my brother. I hope you don’t take me wrong.
It is important, Johann, that you undertake a philological analysis along with a linguistic analysis. In addition, It is important for you to remain aware of the simplest and more rational picture, in addition to your linguistic analysis.

The Hebrew verb v'natati ("I will give") is rendered in the LXX with an imperative form: ποιήσατε ("make"), suggesting a command rather than a direct promise of God's future action.

The imperative (poiēsate) emphasizes the human role in the renewal process, calling for active repentance and transformation.
Future Tense Adjustments:

The LXX changes the original Hebrew emphasis from a divine future action (I will give) to a human responsibility (make for yourselves).
The LXX is not the only source of all the 54 versions I quoted. Many have the Masoretic texts as their primary source, and still differ from your opinion.
Besides, modern translators know quite well the nuances use of future in Hebrew.
I am not asking you to trust 2 or 5 teams of experts. I am asking you to trust 54. Will you do it?
While this alters the nuance of the text, the underlying prophetic intent remains: the verse is still forward-looking,
Forward-looking in this case may mean six hours, six days, six weeks, perhaps six months… but not six centuries!
God’s forgiveness comes along with his transformative grace. God forgiveness in inherently regenerative. That’s why David asks one thing along with the other in the same prayer in Psalm 51. Don’t try to split what cannot be split.
 
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I don't feel the need of lungs, stomach, skin or a penis to enjoy whatever God has for me in his dwellings. What about you?


Pentecost, the historical event, is not your regeneration. You are confused.
I rather invite you to seek regular Pentecosts in your life. That is regeneration.


No, it didn't. God's redemptive plan is present from the foundation of the world and has been active since humans exist.


Allah has total understanding of everything, including your heart, suffering and motivations.

You have been properly refuted on Post 717 and others. Bring your counterarguments. You haven't done so.
For example, you haven't brought any text in the NT portraying the military instructions given by Moses or Samuel as not divinely inspired, or evil.
You haven't brought a counterargument on why Christian saints did not oppose military self defense in Christian kingdoms.
You haven't brought an explanation on why you accuse Muhammad of something Moses and Samuel also did, if the three faced the circumstance of war.
You haven't retracted from your argument that the Quran is considered holy as a whole, not parts of it, when you also consider the Bible holy as a whole, not parts of it.
You haven't explained why you think YHWH in the OT is not a violent God, but you sustain that Allah is a violent God.

Until you focus on solid counterarguments, your statements about Allah or the Quran are a miserable cry of impotence.
The Bible's Holiness as a Whole Versus Parts:
Your claim assumes that Christians consider the Bible "holy as a whole, not parts of it," yet Christian theology allows for nuanced interpretation of scripture within its covenantal framework. The Bible comprises two major covenants: the Old Testament (OT) and the New Testament (NT). Christians recognize that some aspects of the OT (e.g., Mosaic Law) were specific to Israel under the old covenant and were fulfilled in Christ (Matthew 5:17; Hebrews 8:13). While the Bible is inspired as a whole (2 Timothy 3:16), its holiness lies in its role as a unified narrative pointing to Christ, which allows theological differentiation between its parts.

By contrast, Islamic theology asserts that the Qur'an is directly and eternally the unaltered Word of Allah, applicable in its entirety across all times and places. This creates a categorical distinction in how Christians and Muslims regard their scriptures, making the comparison in the argument flawed.

YHWH Versus Allah and Violence:

YHWH's Actions in the Old Testament: The OT does include accounts of divine judgment, including warfare commanded by YHWH (e.g., Joshua 6:21). However, these events are presented as part of a specific historical context, often involving divine judgment against nations engaged in grievous sins (e.g., Canaanites in Leviticus 18). YHWH's actions are tied to His covenant with Israel and His redemptive plan for humanity, ultimately culminating in the New Testament's message of grace and reconciliation through Jesus Christ.
Allah's Depiction in the Qur'an: The Qur'an, like the Bible, contains verses about divine judgment and warfare (e.g., Surah 9:5, 9:29). However, Islamic theology does not provide an overarching redemptive narrative comparable to the Bible's progression from judgment to grace. Instead, the Qur'an presents warfare and punitive measures as ongoing and universal commands in specific contexts.
Furthermore, the Christian understanding of God in the NT emphasizes His self-sacrificial love (John 3:16; Romans 5:8), contrasting sharply with the Qur'anic emphasis on submission (Islam) to Allah's decrees without a comparable demonstration of divine incarnation or atonement.

Counterarguments About Allah and the Qur'an:
The accusation of "a cry of impotence" ignores the substantive theological and historical distinctions between the God of the Bible and Allah of the Qur'an. These distinctions are not arbitrary but rooted in the nature of divine revelation, the portrayal of God’s character, and the overarching purposes of scripture. Scholarly debate focuses on these differences, highlighting the Christian God's relational, covenantal nature and the Qur'anic Allah's transcendence and strict monotheism. Addressing the violence attributed to Allah involves examining not only Qur'anic texts but also Islamic jurisprudence (sharia), which derives binding principles for all Muslims from the Qur'an and Hadith.

Conclusion: The challenge conflates fundamentally different theological frameworks without addressing these distinctions. Christian theology recognizes God's actions within historical covenants, fulfilled in Christ, while the Qur'an presents Allah's decrees as eternal and universally binding without the same redemptive arc. This difference shapes how violence and divine justice are understood in both traditions. A fair comparison requires acknowledging these divergent frameworks rather than dismissing the critique as unfounded.

J.
 
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