God's grace to forgive and transform is not conditioned to recognizing Jesus' deity, blood atonement or physical resurrection

[DavidTree]

However, to say that Jesus made His confrontations "personal" in a vindictive or purely combative sense misunderstands His intent. While He did address their actions, motives, and spiritual condition directly, His purpose was always rooted in truth, justice, and love, not personal attack or malicious judgment.

Let us take some time to think on this by reflecting on who Jesus was before He came to earth.

SHALOM

 

[civic]

I know this is what you and Kenneth Copeland preach, as well as Civic and "Many" others who "come in Christ's Name. But when a man reads the Holy Scriptures for themselves, as the bible instructs, this philosophy you are promoting is exposed as a Lie, a false teaching.. And I will prove it with Scriptures, but you will ignore them, and continue to promote the falsehood. This is because you are here on a mission to justify your specific religious sect, and the Philosophies it has created and are here to promote them, therefore, even after I show you what the Scriptures actually say, you will not be persuaded to repent and stop preaching this lie. I know this because this is the case of all this world's religious sects and businesses. They are not here to bring us to God, rather, they are here to turn us away from God, "In Christ's Name". So in the hope that there are others on this forum that have come to question this world's religious system, and the hypocrisy of its traditions and doctrines of men, here is the Word of God with exposes your religious statement.

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous "before God", walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

So it cannot be denied that this man knew God, before Jesus was even born.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

Why was he filled with the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit? Peter tells us why for those seeking the Truth of God.

Acts 5: 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. (Where is the cross you all worship as Holy?)

View attachment 1165


31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given "to them that obey him".

33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

So Zacharias, as it is written, obeyed God's Laws that you and Civic and Kenneth Copeland all preach is impossible to obey. And yet when I read scriptures, I find a different Truth, a Truth from God and not man.

And what did this man who "Knew God" before the virgin gave birth to the Prophesied Messiah, "know"?


68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us "in the house of his servant David"; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

But wait a minute. You just said, and Civic liked which means he is in agreement with you, that a man cannot Know God without Jesus. Here are your very words.


But Zacharias knew Jesus before HE was even born, and believed in Him, and the Faith in God that was in Him before He was even born. So who should I believe? You and Kenneth Copeland and Civic, all of which have transformed themselves into Apostles of Christ, who preach to the world that a man cannot know God, unless they adopted your image of the Christ? Or should I listen to and believe in the Inspired Word of God? The reason why you are so bitter, resentful and hateful towards me, is because I listen to God and not this world's religious businesses that you have adopted, with their religious traditions and philosophies you are here to promote.

Is this the only Scriptural evidence confirming that if a man knows God, He will also know God's Son?

Luke 2: 25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen "the Lord's Christ". 27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28 Then took he him up in his arms, "and blessed God", and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face "of all people"; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

But wait a minute "Praise Yeshua", you just told me what a reprobate I am for not adopting your specific religious philosophy, "You don't know God without Jesus." And yet when I read what is actually written, I find that both of these men knew God, before Jesus was even born.

But maybe you will try and say Simeon didn't really know God, or His Prophesied High Priest, Jesus.

34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; (As it is to this day) 35(Yea,"a sword shall pierce" through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Wow, how did Simeon know these things, even about the sword that would pierce Him, but the great theologians in the Temple, the great "doctors of the Law", the mainstream preachers who "professed to God", but by their disobedient works denied HIM, why didn't they know these things?

And how do I know these things, but you and Civic and Kenneth Copeland don't know these things?

Sadly, you all will just continue to direct your hatred towards me, and place me in your labels of Judgment, and continue with your mission to promote your religion, and no doubt you will refuse to answer my questions or even acknowledge the Scriptures posted.

Nevertheless, for those reading along, I hope you might consider the Scriptural difference between the mainstream preachers of that time, and those whose refuge was the Lord.

I don’t come in “ christs “ name that would be you . Still projecting.

I’m in Christ eternally in the here and now and forever more.

 

[civic]

So if I said "like you and Civic", you would tell everyone foolish enough to listen to you, that I called you Civic! OK PY, it's your story, you are free to say as you please.


Matt. 7: 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

So if I say you and Satan it doesn’t imply you are like him.

Good to know how your understanding of English grammar works

 

[Johann]

M

was Jesus “ lovingly “ rebuking them ? Yes or no

Are you claiming to be Jesus? Do you have the divine authority to "cut off the heads of snakes," as you suggest Jesus did? Only He, as the Son of God, possesses the right and the wisdom to exercise such righteous judgment (John 5:22; Revelation 2:23).

Are you sleeping? We "attack" one another on this forum and claim this is what Jesus did-Christ is resurrected, how is He dealing with sinners now @civic?

The Bible emphasizes that Jesus came not to condemn sinners but to save them, highlighting His mission of grace, redemption, and reconciliation.

Primary Verses:
John 3:17 (LEB):
“For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should condemn the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.”

This verse clearly states that Jesus’ purpose was salvation, not condemnation.

Luke 19:10 (LEB):
“For the Son of Man came to seek and to save those who are lost.”

Jesus’ mission focused on rescuing sinners, showing His compassion and purpose for humanity.

Matthew 9:13 (LEB):
“Go and learn what it means, ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

This shows that Jesus came to reach those in need of repentance.

John 12:47 (LEB):
“If anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I will not judge him, for I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world.”

Jesus clarifies that His mission is to bring salvation rather than immediate judgment.

Cross-References:
Isaiah 61:1-2 (LEB):
“The Spirit of the Lord Yahweh is upon me...to proclaim release to the captives and liberation to those who are bound, to proclaim the year of Yahweh’s favor.”

This Old Testament prophecy, fulfilled by Jesus (Luke 4:18-19), highlights His role in bringing liberation, not condemnation.

Romans 8:1 (LEB):
“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”

Through Christ, believers are freed from condemnation, affirming His saving work.

Ezekiel 33:11 (LEB):
“I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live.”

God’s desire for sinners to repent and live aligns with Jesus’ mission to save.

1 Timothy 1:15 (LEB):
“The saying is trustworthy and worthy of all acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.”

Paul reaffirms that Jesus came for the salvation of sinners.

2 Peter 3:9 (LEB):
“The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.”

God’s patience reflects His desire for salvation rather than condemnation.

Jesus' mission was not to condemn but to save and call sinners to repentance. His focus was on restoring humanity through His grace and sacrifice. These passages collectively emphasize God’s mercy and long-suffering, providing a foundation for understanding Christ's redemptive work.

J.

 

[Studyman]

So if I say you and Satan it doesn’t imply you are like him.

Good to know how your understanding of English grammar works

PY said I called him "Copeland", not that I understand that you and PY and Copeland are all preaching pretty much the same religious philosophy.

Had PY said, "You are saying my preaching and Copelands preaching is the same! Then that would be true.

 

[Johann]

You added more words in this post with comments than there are scripture. So you are adding to scripture yourself

Projecting-

J.

 

[DavidTree]

PY said I called him "Copeland", not that I understand that you and PY and Copeland are all preaching pretty much the same religious philosophy.

Had PY said, "You are saying my preaching and Copelands preaching is the same! Then that would be true.

"You are saying my preaching and Copelands preaching is the same!

The short version of your sentence would be to say: "You and Copeland" since the basis of this communication between you and PY/civic is on preaching/doctrine.

So if you were to reply to me and say: "You and civic" it would automatically take the assumption that myself and @civic are:
a.) in 100% agreement
b.) believe the same doctrine(s)
c.) are together against you in some way/fashion/form

 

[Studyman]

The short version of your sentence would be to say: "You and Copeland" since the basis of this communication between you and PY/civic is on preaching/doctrine.

So if you were to reply to me and say: "You and civic" it would automatically take the assumption that myself and @civic are:
a.) in 100% agreement
b.) believe the same doctrine(s)
c.) are together against you in some way/fashion/form

Yes. I didn’t call you Civic, I pointed out that you both promote the same religion. Or I would say that you and Civic preach different religions. Either way, I’m not calling you Civic.

If I said you and Jesus are fishing, I’m not calling you Jesus.

Come on guys, deal with the reality of this world’s religious system. I’ve read your posts David, I know you understand what I am saying

 

[DavidTree]

Yes. I didn’t call you Civic, I pointed out that you both promote the same religion. Or I would say that you and Civic preach different religions. Either way, I’m not calling you Civic.

If I said you and Jesus are fishing, I’m not calling you Jesus.

Come on guys, deal with the reality of this world’s religious system. I’ve read your posts David, I know you understand what I am saying

Thank you for the update
AND
If Jesus and i were fishing together, that would mean we are BOTH fishermen based on sharing in the same activity.

ALSO - i caught a 7lb Hybrid Striper and some smaller ones on that short fishn trip

ALSO Part 2 - If you or @Johann or @civic or @praise_yeshua are ever in Northern NJ you can let me know and we can go fishing together.

We can all have a fish fry on the bank like JESUS did after His Resurrection = HE had nothing to eat for 3 days so, YEAH, HE was hungry - lol

 

[civic]

Are you claiming to be Jesus? Do you have the divine authority to "cut off the heads of snakes," as you suggest Jesus did? Only He, as the Son of God, possesses the right and the wisdom to exercise such righteous judgment (John 5:22; Revelation 2:23).

Are you sleeping? We "attack" one another on this forum and claim this is what Jesus did-Christ is resurrected, how is He dealing with sinners now @civic?

The Bible emphasizes that Jesus came not to condemn sinners but to save them, highlighting His mission of grace, redemption, and reconciliation.

Primary Verses:
John 3:17 (LEB):
“For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should condemn the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.”

This verse clearly states that Jesus’ purpose was salvation, not condemnation.

Luke 19:10 (LEB):
“For the Son of Man came to seek and to save those who are lost.”

Jesus’ mission focused on rescuing sinners, showing His compassion and purpose for humanity.

Matthew 9:13 (LEB):
“Go and learn what it means, ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

This shows that Jesus came to reach those in need of repentance.

John 12:47 (LEB):
“If anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I will not judge him, for I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world.”

Jesus clarifies that His mission is to bring salvation rather than immediate judgment.

Cross-References:
Isaiah 61:1-2 (LEB):
“The Spirit of the Lord Yahweh is upon me...to proclaim release to the captives and liberation to those who are bound, to proclaim the year of Yahweh’s favor.”

This Old Testament prophecy, fulfilled by Jesus (Luke 4:18-19), highlights His role in bringing liberation, not condemnation.

Romans 8:1 (LEB):
“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”

Through Christ, believers are freed from condemnation, affirming His saving work.

Ezekiel 33:11 (LEB):
“I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live.”

God’s desire for sinners to repent and live aligns with Jesus’ mission to save.

1 Timothy 1:15 (LEB):
“The saying is trustworthy and worthy of all acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.”

Paul reaffirms that Jesus came for the salvation of sinners.

2 Peter 3:9 (LEB):
“The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.”

God’s patience reflects His desire for salvation rather than condemnation.

Jesus' mission was not to condemn but to save and call sinners to repentance. His focus was on restoring humanity through His grace and sacrifice. These passages collectively emphasize God’s mercy and long-suffering, providing a foundation for understanding Christ's redemptive work.

J.

Jesus spent an entire chapter in Matt 24 condemning the sane ones He said their father was the devil

 

[Johann]

Jesus spent an entire chapter in Matt 24 condemning the sane ones He said their father was the devil

You are not here to dialogue but to pontificate-you neglect the context of what I post and I have asked you a very simple question-show me in the Koine Greek where Jesus "attacked" people-can you do that for me?

And while you are at it, what is the resurrected Messiah's Imperatives for believers IN Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Thanks.

J.

 

[DavidTree]

You are not here to dialogue but to pontificate-you neglect the context of what I post and I have asked you a very simple question-show me in the Koine Greek where Jesus "attacked" people-can you do that for me?

And while you are at it, what is the resurrected Messiah's Imperatives for believers IN Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Thanks.

J.

what is the resurrected Messiah's Imperatives for believers IN Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit.

So, when he had gone out, Jesus said, “Now the Son of Man is glorified, and God is glorified in Him.
If God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify Him in Himself, and glorify Him immediately.
Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come,’ so now I say to you.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” - John ch13

 

[Johann]

So, when he had gone out, Jesus said, “Now the Son of Man is glorified, and God is glorified in Him.
If God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify Him in Himself, and glorify Him immediately.
Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come,’ so now I say to you.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” - John ch13

Shalom achi, tish'ar mevorech b'Mashiach Yeshua, ata v'hamishpacha.

J.

 

[Johann]

So, when he had gone out, Jesus said, “Now the Son of Man is glorified, and God is glorified in Him.
If God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify Him in Himself, and glorify Him immediately.
Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come,’ so now I say to you.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” - John ch13

--and--

Luke 6:27-28 (LEB)
“But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.”

In a parallel passage from the Gospel of Luke, Jesus expands on the command to love, adding specific actions like doing good to those who hate you, blessing those who curse you, and praying for those who mistreat you.

3. Luke 6:35 (LEB)
“But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.”

Jesus calls His followers to love their enemies without expecting anything in return, highlighting God’s kindness to both the ungrateful and the evil as a model for their behavior.

4. Matthew 5:45 (LEB)
“So that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”

Jesus explains that by loving our enemies, we imitate God the Father, who shows kindness indiscriminately to both the righteous and the unrighteous.

5. Matthew 5:46-47 (LEB)
“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?”

Jesus challenges His followers to love beyond what is common or natural, calling them to show love to enemies and those who may not return it, instead of only loving those who love them in return.

6. Romans 12:20-21 (LEB)
“But if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”

While this is from Paul’s writing, it reflects the teachings of Jesus. The call is to respond to evil with good, providing for the needs of our enemies rather than seeking revenge.

7. Matthew 5:38-39 (LEB)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”

Although not directly about loving enemies, this command sets the foundation for loving enemies by teaching non-retaliation and forgiveness.

Right @DavidTree?

J.

 

[DavidTree]

--and--

Luke 6:27-28 (LEB)
“But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.”

In a parallel passage from the Gospel of Luke, Jesus expands on the command to love, adding specific actions like doing good to those who hate you, blessing those who curse you, and praying for those who mistreat you.

3. Luke 6:35 (LEB)
“But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.”

Jesus calls His followers to love their enemies without expecting anything in return, highlighting God’s kindness to both the ungrateful and the evil as a model for their behavior.

4. Matthew 5:45 (LEB)
“So that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”

Jesus explains that by loving our enemies, we imitate God the Father, who shows kindness indiscriminately to both the righteous and the unrighteous.

5. Matthew 5:46-47 (LEB)
“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?”

Jesus challenges His followers to love beyond what is common or natural, calling them to show love to enemies and those who may not return it, instead of only loving those who love them in return.

6. Romans 12:20-21 (LEB)
“But if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”

While this is from Paul’s writing, it reflects the teachings of Jesus. The call is to respond to evil with good, providing for the needs of our enemies rather than seeking revenge.

7. Matthew 5:38-39 (LEB)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”

Although not directly about loving enemies, this command sets the foundation for loving enemies by teaching non-retaliation and forgiveness.

Right @DavidTree?

J.

i confess that i struggle with "love your enemies" even though i have = by God's Grace

Here is something that is deemed as a 'weakness and loss' yet it is very powerful when we adapt ourselves under it.

The POWER of forgetfulness!!!

Now, i am not referring to uncontrolled memory loss due to age, injury or drug/alcohol abuse.

i am referring to us being more like our Heavenly Father = Hebrews 10:17
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

You and i and others have thrown 'HOT SPARKS' at times but at the end of each day i choose to forget offenses and pray that my offenses are also forgiven and forgotten.

SHALOM Brother

 

[civic]

You are not here to dialogue but to pontificate-you neglect the context of what I post and I have asked you a very simple question-show me in the Koine Greek where Jesus "attacked" people-can you do that for me?

And while you are at it, what is the resurrected Messiah's Imperatives for believers IN Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Thanks.

J.

You stand corrected . When Jesus rebuked them it means attacks and insults- even worse it’s public humiliation and disgracing a person

The Hebrew equivalent often associated with the concept of reproach is חֶרְפָּה (cherpah), Strong's Hebrew 2781, which also denotes disgrace or scorn.

Usage: The verb "oneidizó" is used in the New Testament to describe the act of reproaching or insulting someone. It often carries the connotation of casting blame or shame upon another, typically in a public or humiliating manner. This term is used to depict both verbal attacks and the broader sense of scorn or contempt directed at an individual.

 

[DavidTree]

You stand corrected . When Jesus rebuked them it means attacks and insults- even worse it’s public humiliation and disgracing a person

The Hebrew equivalent often associated with the concept of reproach is חֶרְפָּה (cherpah), Strong's Hebrew 2781, which also denotes disgrace or scorn.

Usage: The verb "oneidizó" is used in the New Testament to describe the act of reproaching or insulting someone. It often carries the connotation of casting blame or shame upon another, typically in a public or humiliating manner. This term is used to depict both verbal attacks and the broader sense of scorn or contempt directed at an individual.

This would be appropriate from the perspective of the 'Two' that are engaged in dialogue in John chapter 8

The 'Two' are actual 'Groups' (for lack of a better word)

Group A - FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT acting as Echad Elohim in the flesh = "IAM from Above"

Group B - The Jewish Leaders who are acting under the power of sin/ their father the devil = "you are from beneath"

***NOTE*** = i use the word 'Group' since JESUS said: "But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father,

The Lord Jesus Christ had full Authority to speak damningly towards those who were false agents and reprobates concerning Saving Faith.
Saving Faith in the Word was given to Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Job, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, Rahab, Deborah, Ruth, Hannah, Samuel, David and the many faithful Jews who heeded God's Word unto salvation.

Group B, on the other hand(left), were acting under the influence of sin and deception by which they ruled over the people.
This was never God's plan for the Temple and for those placed in charge over the Temple and the Law.
Cleansing was in order and that Order came down from Above - Luke 20: 9-16

 

[DavidTree]

@Johann and @civic

i would further say from Post 697 that the Lord Jesus Christ did not come 'charging out the gate' to attack the Jewish leaders.

How do we know this???
#1 - By the many Scriptures of God's heart in Christ that @Johann posted = ty Brother
#2 - (This is the most prominent reason given to the damning dialogue Jesus had with the Temple Leaders in John chapter 8)

#2 - "you seek to kill Me"

a.) "you seek" = deliberation
b.) "to kill Me" = murder/Cain & Able/murder never comes from God
c.) "Abraham would not do this" = God's Law/Gospel

Therefore the Jewish Leaders of ch8 had 'it coming' and Rightfully so because they were acting outside the Law, outside of grace, outside of lawful investigation, outside of TRUTH and with deliberation, malice and self-righteous judgment.

 

[Johann]

You stand corrected . When Jesus rebuked them it means attacks and insults- even worse it’s public humiliation and disgracing a person

Error-this is not my Lord Jesus Christ you are describing but that of a brute beast-acting like brute beast.

I know what you are doing Civic-

חֶרְפָּה (cherpah)
This Hebrew word appears extensively in the Old Testament, often to convey the idea of disgrace, scorn, or reproach. Examples include:

Genesis 30:23 – Rachel expresses relief upon bearing a child, saying, "God has taken away my reproach (חֶרְפָּתִי)."

1 Samuel 17:26 – David refers to Goliath's taunts, asking, "Who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God and bring reproach (חֶרְפָּה)?"

Psalm 69:7 – The psalmist laments, "For Your sake, I have borne reproach (חֶרְפָּה); dishonor has covered my face."

Isaiah 54:4 – God promises restoration to Israel, saying, "You will forget the shame of your youth, and will not remember the reproach (חֶרְפָּתְךָ) of your widowhood anymore."

2. ὀνειδίζω (oneidizó)
In the New Testament, this Greek verb is used to describe acts of verbal reproach or insult. Key occurrences include:

Matthew 5:11 – Jesus blesses those persecuted for His sake: "Blessed are you when others revile (ὀνειδίσωσιν) you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on My account."

Matthew 27:44 – Refers to the robbers crucified with Jesus, who "reviled (ὠνείδιζον) Him in the same way."

Romans 15:3 – Paul cites Psalm 69:9, saying, "The reproaches (ὀνειδισμοί) of those who reproached You fell on Me."

James 1:5 – In the context of wisdom, James assures believers that God "gives to all generously and without reproach (ὀνειδίζοντος)."

In none of these verses is it ever implied or suggested that the Messiah behaved aggressively or attacked sinners or religious leaders.

J.

 

[civic]

Error-this is not my Lord Jesus Christ you are describing but that of a brute beast-acting like brute beast.

I know what you are doing Civic-

חֶרְפָּה (cherpah)
This Hebrew word appears extensively in the Old Testament, often to convey the idea of disgrace, scorn, or reproach. Examples include:

Genesis 30:23 – Rachel expresses relief upon bearing a child, saying, "God has taken away my reproach (חֶרְפָּתִי)."

1 Samuel 17:26 – David refers to Goliath's taunts, asking, "Who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God and bring reproach (חֶרְפָּה)?"

Psalm 69:7 – The psalmist laments, "For Your sake, I have borne reproach (חֶרְפָּה); dishonor has covered my face."

Isaiah 54:4 – God promises restoration to Israel, saying, "You will forget the shame of your youth, and will not remember the reproach (חֶרְפָּתְךָ) of your widowhood anymore."

2. ὀνειδίζω (oneidizó)
In the New Testament, this Greek verb is used to describe acts of verbal reproach or insult. Key occurrences include:

Matthew 5:11 – Jesus blesses those persecuted for His sake: "Blessed are you when others revile (ὀνειδίσωσιν) you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on My account."

Matthew 27:44 – Refers to the robbers crucified with Jesus, who "reviled (ὠνείδιζον) Him in the same way."

Romans 15:3 – Paul cites Psalm 69:9, saying, "The reproaches (ὀνειδισμοί) of those who reproached You fell on Me."

James 1:5 – In the context of wisdom, James assures believers that God "gives to all generously and without reproach (ὀνειδίζοντος)."

In none of these verses is it ever implied or suggested that the Messiah behaved aggressively or attacked sinners or religious leaders.

J.

Readers you can read the definitions and meaning below with the references from scrIpture.

provided the actual Greek word Jesus used rebuking with the lexical definition.

The Hebrew equivalent often associated with the concept of reproach is חֶרְפָּה (cherpah), Strong's Hebrew 2781, which also denotes disgrace or scorn.

Usage: The verb "oneidizó" is used in the New Testament to describe the act of reproaching or insulting someone. It often carries the connotation of casting blame or shame upon another, typically in a public or humiliating manner. This term is used to depict both verbal attacks and the broader sense of scorn or contempt directed at an individual.

oneidizó: To reproach, revile, insult, or upbraid.
Original Word: ὀνειδίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: oneidizó
Pronunciation: o-ni-did'-zo
Phonetic Spelling: (on-i-did'-zo)
Definition: To reproach, revile, insult, or upbraid.
Meaning: I reproach, revile, upbraid.

Word Origin: From the Greek word ὄνειδος (oneidos), meaning "reproach" or "disgrace."

Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The Hebrew equivalent often associated with the concept of reproach is חֶרְפָּה (cherpah), Strong's Hebrew 2781, which also denotes disgrace or scorn.

Usage: The verb "oneidizó" is used in the New Testament to describe the act of reproaching or insulting someone. It often carries the connotation of casting blame or shame upon another, typically in a public or humiliating manner. This term is used to depict both verbal attacks and the broader sense of scorn or contempt directed at an individual.

Cultural and Historical Background: In the Greco-Roman world, honor and shame were pivotal social values. To reproach someone was to challenge their honor and social standing. In Jewish culture, reproach was similarly significant, often associated with moral or religious failure. The use of "oneidizó" in the New Testament reflects these cultural understandings, highlighting the social and spiritual dimensions of reproach.

3679 oneidízō (from a primitive root meaning "to upbraid, revile, like in showing one's teeth," K. Wuest) – properly, to disgrace (insult), reproach; mock (curse); insult, cast blame (create shame) – viewing someone (something) as culpably guilty and therefore deserving punishment. This can be based on fact (Mt 11:20), or incorrect assumptions (Mt 5:11).

Strong's Greek: 3679. ὀνειδίζω (oneidizó) -- To reproach, revile, insult, or upbraid.

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Englishman's Concordance
Matthew 5:11 V-ASA-3P
GRK: ἐστε ὅταν ὀνειδίσωσιν ὑμᾶς καὶ
NAS: are you when [people] insult you and persecute
KJV: when [men] shall revile you,
INT: are you when they shall insult you and
Matthew 11:20 V-PNA
GRK: Τότε ἤρξατο ὀνειδίζειν τὰς πόλεις
NAS: He began to denounce the cities
KJV: began he to upbraid the cities
INT: Then he began to insult the cities

Matthew 27:44 V-IIA-3P
GRK: σὺν αὐτῷ ὠνείδιζον αὐτόν
NAS: with Him were also insulting Him with the same
KJV: the same in his teeth.
INT: with him insulted him

Mark 15:32 V-IIA-3P
GRK: σὺν αὐτῷ ὠνείδιζον αὐτόν
NAS: with Him were also insulting Him.
KJV: with him reviled him.
INT: with him insulted him

Mark 16:14 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ἐφανερώθη καὶ ὠνείδισεν τὴν ἀπιστίαν
NAS: as they were reclining [at the table]; and He reproached them for their unbelief
KJV: and upbraided them with their
INT: he appeared and rebuked the unbelief

Luke 6:22 V-ASA-3P
GRK: ὑμᾶς καὶ ὀνειδίσωσιν καὶ ἐκβάλωσιν
NAS: you, and ostracize you, and insult you, and scorn
KJV: [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and
INT: you and shall insult [you] and cast out

Romans 15:3 V-PPA-GMP
GRK: ὀνειδισμοὶ τῶν ὀνειδιζόντων σὲ ἐπέπεσαν
NAS: OF THOSE WHO REPROACHED YOU FELL
KJV: The reproaches of them that reproached thee
INT: reproaches of those reproaching you fell

James 1:5 V-PPA-GMS
GRK: καὶ μὴ ὀνειδίζοντος καὶ δοθήσεται
NAS: and without reproach, and it will be given
KJV: and upbraideth not;
INT: and without reproaches and it will be given

1 Peter 4:14 V-PIM/P-2P
GRK: εἰ ὀνειδίζεσθε ἐν ὀνόματι
NAS: If you are reviled for the name
KJV: If ye be reproached for the name
INT: If you are insulted in [the] name

Strong's Greek 3679
9 Occurrences

ὠνείδισεν — 1 Occ.
ὠνείδιζον — 2 Occ.
ὀνειδίσωσιν — 2 Occ.
ὀνειδίζειν — 1 Occ.
ὀνειδίζεσθε — 1 Occ.
ὀνειδιζόντων — 1 Occ.
ὀνειδίζοντος — 1 Occ.