God's grace to forgive and transform is not conditioned to recognizing Jesus' deity, blood atonement or physical resurrection

[Pancho Frijoles]

What source do you think is more representative of Muhammad's life and mindset: the Quran or Microsoft Copilot? Here are some of the racist and cut-throat directives that the Quran demanded that Muhammad execute without question, and is still in effect for all Muslims who revere the Quran:

The Tanakh, which Jesus and his apostles considered inspired by God, has similar quotes and even more brutal passages.*
People who lived with Muhammed spoke of his high spiritual qualities and they are his witness.
Will you call Moses or Samuel false or evil prophets because they were the channels of God's will in brutal times of war?

However, you are diverting into a Muhammed, who lived 1400 years ago, forgetting your Jewish dentist, your Muslim coworker, your child's teacher of Math who is a Sikh, or your agnostic brother-in-law.
So let's say, for the sake of the argument, that Prophet Muhammed was the worst man on earth.

My argument continues to be the same:

We can't deny the reality that people from all religions and theological stances are being born into a new life or have been born in the past. Their pass from being men full of guilt, fear and hate, to men full of the spirit, is an undeniable testimony.



*REFERENCES

1. Deuteronomy 13:6-10 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and worship other gods' (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery."
2. Deuteronomy 20:16-17: "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you."
3. 1 Samuel 15:3: "totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
4. Numbers 31:17-18: "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

 

[civic]

What source do you think is more representative of Muhammad's life and mindset: the Quran or Microsoft Copilot? Here are some of the racist and cut-throat directives that the Quran demanded that Muhammad execute without question, and is still in effect for all Muslims who revere the Quran:

Surah 2:65 "And indeed you [Jews] knew those among you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. We [Allah] said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected."

Surah 2:96 "And verily, you will find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind for life and (even greedier) than those who ascribe partners to Allah [polytheists].

Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)."

Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …"

Surah 3:10 "Verily, those who disbelieve, neither their properties nor their offspring will avail them whatsoever against Allah; and it is they who will be fuel of the Fire."

Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …" Terrorism.

Surah 4:89 "They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected, and thus that you all become equal. So take not friends from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah. But if they turn back (from Islam) take hold of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither friends nor helpers from them."

Surah 5:32 "...We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men..."

Surah 5:33 "The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his Messenger5 and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter."

Surah 5:60 "Say (O Muhammad) to the people of the Scripture: 'Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allah: those Jews who incurred the Curse of Allah and His Wrath, those of whom some He transformed into monkeys and swine, those who worshipped false deities [Hindus/Buddhists]; such are worse in rank and far more astray from the Right Path.'"

Surah 7:166 "So when they [the Jews] exceeded the limits of what they were prohibited, We said to them: 'Be you monkeys despised and rejected.'"

Surah 8:12. Your Lord inspired the angels: “I am with you, so support those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. So strike above the necks, and strike off every fingertip of theirs.”

Surah 8:39 "And fight them [the unbelievers] until there is no more disbelief (fitnah), and the religion will all be for Allah Alone [the translation adds: 'in the whole of the world'.]"

Surah 9:83. Have you not considered how We dispatch the devils against the disbelievers, exciting them with incitement?

Surah 9:123 O you who believe! fight the unbelievers who surround you, and let them find harshness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

Surah 47:4 "So, when you meet [in Jihad] those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly on them. Thereafter is the time either for generosity or ransom. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam] ... But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost."

Yes their own book tells the story

 

[synergy]

The Tanakh, which Jesus and his apostles considered inspired by God, has similar quotes and even more brutal passages.*
People who lived with Muhammed spoke of his high spiritual qualities and they are his witness.
Will you call Moses or Samuel false or evil prophets because they were the channels of God's will in brutal times of war?

However, you are diverting into a Muhammed, who lived 1400 years ago, forgetting your Jewish dentist, your Muslim coworker, your child's teacher of Math who is a Sikh, or your agnostic brother-in-law.
So let's say, for the sake of the argument, that Prophet Muhammed was the worst man on earth.

My argument continues to be the same:

We can't deny the reality that people from all religions and theological stances are being born into a new life or have been born in the past. Their pass from being men full of guilt, fear and hate, to men full of the spirit, is an undeniable testimony.



*REFERENCES

1. Deuteronomy 13:6-10 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and worship other gods' (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery."
2. Deuteronomy 20:16-17: "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you."
3. 1 Samuel 15:3: "totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
4. Numbers 31:17-18: "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

The NT has abrogated those verses 2000 years ago. They are no longer in effect. Your Quran is still in effect with its racist and cut-throat instructions. We've already gone over this. You have no case.

Give it up. The Quran is a Death Sentence to whoever embraces the verses I mentioned, including the Baha'i.

 

[civic]

The NT has abrogated those verses 2000 years ago. They are no longer in effect. Your Quran is still in effect with its racist and cut-throat instructions. We've already gone over this. You have no case.

Give it up. The Quran is a Death Sentence to whoever embraces the verses I mentioned, including the Baha'i.

Yes apples to oranges the comparing of the two books is avoiding the obvious problems with their books leader.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The NT has abrogated those verses 2000 years ago. They are no longer in effect.

Those verses that I quote were NOT abrogated in the NT.
They continue to be inspired verses for you, as they were for Jesus and for his apostles.
Jesus never declared that Moses or Samuel were wrong, or false prophets, or evil prophets, when they called Israel to exterminate those peoples.
I challenge you to present one single verse of the New Testament in which Jesus calls them wrong or disapproves what they did.

On the contrary, Jesus justified Moses, in saying (in the case of divorce) that He had said what He said due to the hardness or people's hearts.
So, it was the condition of the hearts of the audience, and not Moses, which is called into question.
It was the brutal conditions of the Arab people and not Muhammed, which is called into question.

Therefore, you have been refuted.

Every attack to the Quran from your part is an attack to the Bible. So don't keep shooting at your feet, and focus on the thesis:

We can't deny the reality that people from all religions and theological stances are being born into a new life or have been born in the past. Their pass from being men full of guilt, fear and hate, to men full of the spirit, is an undeniable testimony.

 

[101G]

My friend, you are missing the point. Jesus was born a flesh and blood human.

ERROR, Jesus was not born, his body was.

And what was the business of His Father? That HE should grow in wisdom and the knowledge of God

my God do you read? he was in a ECHAD of First and Last... Understand?

What was John the Baptist doing at 12 years old? Was he not also looking after the business of His Father and my Father, and Jesus' Father?

no, he was sent from God and not sent by God.... listen, John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John." did not the Lord Jesus came ..... FROM ... God?

and the Lord Jesus came from God also. John 3:31 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all." John 13:3 "Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;" John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

101G

 

[synergy]

Those verses that I quote were NOT abrogated in the NT.
They continue to be inspired verses for you, as they were for Jesus and for his apostles.
Jesus never declared that Moses or Samuel were wrong, or false prophets, or evil prophets, when they called Israel to exterminate those peoples.
I challenge you to present one single verse of the New Testament in which Jesus calls them wrong or disapproves what they did.

On the contrary, Jesus justified Moses, in saying (in the case of divorce) that He had said what He said due to the hardness or people's hearts.
So, it was the condition of the hearts of the audience, and not Moses, which is called into question.
It was the brutal conditions of the Arab people and not Muhammed, which is called into question.

Therefore, you have been refuted.

Every attack to the Quran from your part is an attack to the Bible. So don't keep shooting at your feet, and focus on the thesis:

We can't deny the reality that people from all religions and theological stances are being born into a new life or have been born in the past. Their pass from being men full of guilt, fear and hate, to men full of the spirit, is an undeniable testimony.

A central theme of the New Testament is that the Cross radically transformed the understanding of justice, punishment, and how we are to respond to others, especially in the face of evil. The Cross not only fulfilled the Old Testament law but also pointed to a higher law—the law of love and nonviolence. Violence has officially been abrogated by the Cross.

1. The Cross and Nonviolence (Matthew 5:38-39)

> "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'
But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also."

In the Old Testament, the law of retribution (Exodus 21:24) was meant to limit excessive vengeance, but it still allowed for punishment, including violence. Jesus, in contrast, calls for nonviolence, teaching that we should not repay evil with evil. The Cross serves as the ultimate example of nonviolence: Jesus, though innocent, endured violence, suffering, and death without responding with violence. In doing so, He demonstrated that the way of God’s Kingdom is through peace, not retaliation.

2. The Cross and the Call to Love Enemies (Matthew 5:43-44)

> "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

In the Old Testament, there were moments of judgment against enemies, but Jesus calls His followers to love even those who persecute them. The Cross embodies this radical love. Jesus prayed for those who crucified Him, asking the Father to forgive them (Luke 23:34). The Cross shows that the true path to victory is not through violence, but through sacrificial love and forgiveness.

3. The Cross and Mercy Over Judgment (John 8:3-11)

> "They kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, 'Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.'
Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.
Jesus straightened up and asked her, 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?'
'No one, sir,' she said.
'Then neither do I condemn you,' Jesus declared. 'Go now and leave your life of sin.'"

This story shows a pivotal moment where Jesus challenges the Old Testament law that prescribed death for adultery (Leviticus 20:10). While the law demanded punishment, Jesus shows mercy, demonstrating that His mission is not to condemn but to offer forgiveness. The Cross underscores this message of mercy: Jesus, through His sacrifice, absorbed the judgment meant for humanity, offering grace instead of punishment.

4. The Cross and the Fulfillment of the Law (Romans 13:8-10)

> "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,' and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

The Cross reveals that the law's ultimate fulfillment is found in love, not in violence or punishment. Through His death, Jesus demonstrated the highest act of love. His sacrifice abrogates the Old Testament laws of retributive justice, shifting the focus from punishment to love and mercy. The Cross calls Christians to follow the path of selfless love, which requires nonviolence and forgiveness.

5. The Cross and Nonviolence in the Face of Persecution (Luke 9:54-56)

> "When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, 'Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?'
But Jesus turned and rebuked them.
Then he and his disciples went to another village."

The disciples, wanting to call down judgment on those who rejected Jesus, reveal the violent tendencies of the Old Testament. However, Jesus rebukes them, emphasizing that His mission is not to destroy, but to save. The Cross serves as the ultimate act of nonviolence: Jesus allowed Himself to be crucified rather than calling upon divine power to destroy His enemies. Through His sacrifice, He shows that true power comes not through violence, but through sacrificial love.

6. The Cross and Reconciliation Over Retaliation (2 Corinthians 5:19)

> "that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them."

Through the Cross, God offers reconciliation rather than judgment. The Old Testament sometimes depicted violent acts as a way to maintain justice, but the Cross shifts the focus to reconciliation. Jesus’ death demonstrates that God’s ultimate justice is restorative, not punitive. By taking on the sins of the world, Jesus made peace between God and humanity, calling us to be agents of peace rather than violence.

7. The Cross and the Call to Forgiveness (Matthew 6:14-15)

> "For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

The Cross is the ultimate symbol of forgiveness. Jesus’ sacrifice was given freely, not because humanity deserved it, but out of love and grace. Through His death, He offers forgiveness to all, setting the standard for His followers to forgive even those who harm them. The Cross abolishes the Old Testament practice of vengeance and introduces the radical call to forgive without condition, reinforcing the call to nonviolence.

8. The Cross and the Fulfillment of the Law Through Sacrificial Love (Hebrews 10:1-10)

> "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God."

The Cross is the fulfillment of the Old Testament sacrificial system. In contrast to the endless cycle of animal sacrifices, Jesus offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice. His nonviolent death on the Cross rendered the violent sacrificial system obsolete. By offering Himself for all, Jesus established a New Covenant of peace, one where violence is replaced by His atoning, sacrificial love.

In conclusion, the Cross stands at the center of the New Testament’s call to nonviolence. Jesus' death exemplifies a love that chooses self-sacrifice over violence, forgiveness over judgment, and reconciliation over retaliation. Through the Cross, Jesus abrogated the violent retribution seen in the Old Testament, replacing it with a call to live out the ethic of love, peace, and nonviolence. The Cross transforms justice from a system of punishment into a means of grace, showing that the way of God's Kingdom is always through love, not violence.

The Quran denies and loathes the Cross. As such the Quran should be promptly disposed of in the most convenient way.

 

[civic]

A central theme of the New Testament is that the Cross radically transformed the understanding of justice, punishment, and how we are to respond to others, especially in the face of evil. The Cross not only fulfilled the Old Testament law but also pointed to a higher law—the law of love and nonviolence. Violence has officially been abrogated by the Cross.

1. The Cross and Nonviolence (Matthew 5:38-39)

> "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'
But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also."

In the Old Testament, the law of retribution (Exodus 21:24) was meant to limit excessive vengeance, but it still allowed for punishment, including violence. Jesus, in contrast, calls for nonviolence, teaching that we should not repay evil with evil. The Cross serves as the ultimate example of nonviolence: Jesus, though innocent, endured violence, suffering, and death without responding with violence. In doing so, He demonstrated that the way of God’s Kingdom is through peace, not retaliation.

2. The Cross and the Call to Love Enemies (Matthew 5:43-44)

> "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

In the Old Testament, there were moments of judgment against enemies, but Jesus calls His followers to love even those who persecute them. The Cross embodies this radical love. Jesus prayed for those who crucified Him, asking the Father to forgive them (Luke 23:34). The Cross shows that the true path to victory is not through violence, but through sacrificial love and forgiveness.

3. The Cross and Mercy Over Judgment (John 8:3-11)

> "They kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, 'Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.'
Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.
Jesus straightened up and asked her, 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?'
'No one, sir,' she said.
'Then neither do I condemn you,' Jesus declared. 'Go now and leave your life of sin.'"

This story shows a pivotal moment where Jesus challenges the Old Testament law that prescribed death for adultery (Leviticus 20:10). While the law demanded punishment, Jesus shows mercy, demonstrating that His mission is not to condemn but to offer forgiveness. The Cross underscores this message of mercy: Jesus, through His sacrifice, absorbed the judgment meant for humanity, offering grace instead of punishment.

4. The Cross and the Fulfillment of the Law (Romans 13:8-10)

> "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,' and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

The Cross reveals that the law's ultimate fulfillment is found in love, not in violence or punishment. Through His death, Jesus demonstrated the highest act of love. His sacrifice abrogates the Old Testament laws of retributive justice, shifting the focus from punishment to love and mercy. The Cross calls Christians to follow the path of selfless love, which requires nonviolence and forgiveness.

5. The Cross and Nonviolence in the Face of Persecution (Luke 9:54-56)

> "When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, 'Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?'
But Jesus turned and rebuked them.
Then he and his disciples went to another village."

The disciples, wanting to call down judgment on those who rejected Jesus, reveal the violent tendencies of the Old Testament. However, Jesus rebukes them, emphasizing that His mission is not to destroy, but to save. The Cross serves as the ultimate act of nonviolence: Jesus allowed Himself to be crucified rather than calling upon divine power to destroy His enemies. Through His sacrifice, He shows that true power comes not through violence, but through sacrificial love.

6. The Cross and Reconciliation Over Retaliation (2 Corinthians 5:19)

> "that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them."

Through the Cross, God offers reconciliation rather than judgment. The Old Testament sometimes depicted violent acts as a way to maintain justice, but the Cross shifts the focus to reconciliation. Jesus’ death demonstrates that God’s ultimate justice is restorative, not punitive. By taking on the sins of the world, Jesus made peace between God and humanity, calling us to be agents of peace rather than violence.

7. The Cross and the Call to Forgiveness (Matthew 6:14-15)

> "For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

The Cross is the ultimate symbol of forgiveness. Jesus’ sacrifice was given freely, not because humanity deserved it, but out of love and grace. Through His death, He offers forgiveness to all, setting the standard for His followers to forgive even those who harm them. The Cross abolishes the Old Testament practice of vengeance and introduces the radical call to forgive without condition, reinforcing the call to nonviolence.

8. The Cross and the Fulfillment of the Law Through Sacrificial Love (Hebrews 10:1-10)

> "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God."

The Cross is the fulfillment of the Old Testament sacrificial system. In contrast to the endless cycle of animal sacrifices, Jesus offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice. His nonviolent death on the Cross rendered the violent sacrificial system obsolete. By offering Himself for all, Jesus established a New Covenant of peace, one where violence is replaced by His atoning, sacrificial love.

In conclusion, the Cross stands at the center of the New Testament’s call to nonviolence. Jesus' death exemplifies a love that chooses self-sacrifice over violence, forgiveness over judgment, and reconciliation over retaliation. Through the Cross, Jesus abrogated the violent retribution seen in the Old Testament, replacing it with a call to live out the ethic of love, peace, and nonviolence. The Cross transforms justice from a system of punishment into a means of grace, showing that the way of God's Kingdom is always through love, not violence.

The Quran denies and loathes the Cross. As such the Quran should be promptly disposed of in the most convenient way.

Yes the Royal Law of Love absent from Islam.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

A central theme of the New Testament is that the Cross radically transformed the understanding of justice, punishment, and how we are to respond to others, especially in the face of evil. The Cross not only fulfilled the Old Testament law but also pointed to a higher law—the law of love and nonviolence. Violence has officially been abrogated by the Cross.

1. The Cross and Nonviolence (Matthew 5:38-39)

> "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'
But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also."

In the Old Testament, the law of retribution (Exodus 21:24) was meant to limit excessive vengeance, but it still allowed for punishment, including violence. Jesus, in contrast, calls for nonviolence, teaching that we should not repay evil with evil. The Cross serves as the ultimate example of nonviolence: Jesus, though innocent, endured violence, suffering, and death without responding with violence. In doing so, He demonstrated that the way of God’s Kingdom is through peace, not retaliation.

2. The Cross and the Call to Love Enemies (Matthew 5:43-44)

> "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

In the Old Testament, there were moments of judgment against enemies, but Jesus calls His followers to love even those who persecute them. The Cross embodies this radical love. Jesus prayed for those who crucified Him, asking the Father to forgive them (Luke 23:34). The Cross shows that the true path to victory is not through violence, but through sacrificial love and forgiveness.

3. The Cross and Mercy Over Judgment (John 8:3-11)

> "They kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, 'Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.'
Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.
Jesus straightened up and asked her, 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?'
'No one, sir,' she said.
'Then neither do I condemn you,' Jesus declared. 'Go now and leave your life of sin.'"

This story shows a pivotal moment where Jesus challenges the Old Testament law that prescribed death for adultery (Leviticus 20:10). While the law demanded punishment, Jesus shows mercy, demonstrating that His mission is not to condemn but to offer forgiveness. The Cross underscores this message of mercy: Jesus, through His sacrifice, absorbed the judgment meant for humanity, offering grace instead of punishment.

4. The Cross and the Fulfillment of the Law (Romans 13:8-10)

> "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,' and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

The Cross reveals that the law's ultimate fulfillment is found in love, not in violence or punishment. Through His death, Jesus demonstrated the highest act of love. His sacrifice abrogates the Old Testament laws of retributive justice, shifting the focus from punishment to love and mercy. The Cross calls Christians to follow the path of selfless love, which requires nonviolence and forgiveness.

5. The Cross and Nonviolence in the Face of Persecution (Luke 9:54-56)

> "When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, 'Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?'
But Jesus turned and rebuked them.
Then he and his disciples went to another village."

The disciples, wanting to call down judgment on those who rejected Jesus, reveal the violent tendencies of the Old Testament. However, Jesus rebukes them, emphasizing that His mission is not to destroy, but to save. The Cross serves as the ultimate act of nonviolence: Jesus allowed Himself to be crucified rather than calling upon divine power to destroy His enemies. Through His sacrifice, He shows that true power comes not through violence, but through sacrificial love.

6. The Cross and Reconciliation Over Retaliation (2 Corinthians 5:19)

> "that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them."

Through the Cross, God offers reconciliation rather than judgment. The Old Testament sometimes depicted violent acts as a way to maintain justice, but the Cross shifts the focus to reconciliation. Jesus’ death demonstrates that God’s ultimate justice is restorative, not punitive. By taking on the sins of the world, Jesus made peace between God and humanity, calling us to be agents of peace rather than violence.

7. The Cross and the Call to Forgiveness (Matthew 6:14-15)

> "For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

The Cross is the ultimate symbol of forgiveness. Jesus’ sacrifice was given freely, not because humanity deserved it, but out of love and grace. Through His death, He offers forgiveness to all, setting the standard for His followers to forgive even those who harm them. The Cross abolishes the Old Testament practice of vengeance and introduces the radical call to forgive without condition, reinforcing the call to nonviolence.

8. The Cross and the Fulfillment of the Law Through Sacrificial Love (Hebrews 10:1-10)

> "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God."

The Cross is the fulfillment of the Old Testament sacrificial system. In contrast to the endless cycle of animal sacrifices, Jesus offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice. His nonviolent death on the Cross rendered the violent sacrificial system obsolete. By offering Himself for all, Jesus established a New Covenant of peace, one where violence is replaced by His atoning, sacrificial love.

In conclusion, the Cross stands at the center of the New Testament’s call to nonviolence. Jesus' death exemplifies a love that chooses self-sacrifice over violence, forgiveness over judgment, and reconciliation over retaliation. Through the Cross, Jesus abrogated the violent retribution seen in the Old Testament, replacing it with a call to live out the ethic of love, peace, and nonviolence. The Cross transforms justice from a system of punishment into a means of grace, showing that the way of God's Kingdom is always through love, not violence.

The Quran denies and loathes the Cross. As such the Quran should be promptly disposed of in the most convenient way.

Three thoughts on your post

FIRST: LOVE AND MERCY ARE COMMON TO ALL RELIGIONS OF GOD

What you are doing in this post is to enunciate eternal principles, also upheld by Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians or Jews.
How can Jews uphold the same principles of Jesus, if they don’t recognize the New Testament as inspired?
In regard to the Quran…

The Quran teaches love and mercy
And among His Signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your hearts.” (Quran 30:21)

The Quran does not teach violence
Good and evil cannot be equal. [Prophet], repel evil with what is better and your enemy will become as close as an old and valued friend, but only those who are steadfast in patience, only those who are blessed with great righteousness, will attain to such goodness.” (Quran 41:34-35)

The Quran does not teach to kill people because of their religion
“Whoever kills a person, unless it is for manslaughter or for causing corruption in the land, it is as if he had killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as if he had saved all mankind” (Quran 5:32).

SECOND: CHRIST TAUGHT LOVE WITHOUT BLAMING ANY PROPHET OR SCRIPTURE

In your post you are enunciating divine, eternal principles WITHOUT attacking Moses or Samuel’s divine inspiration. Do the same with Prophet Muhammad. Jesus upheld the Torah and the prophets of God, explaining the differences between His teachings and their teachings on the basis of different capacity or spiritual state of the audience. Never by invalidating those who were channels of God’s commands.

THIRD: ANY CHRISTIAN’S APPEAL TO PEACE, LOVE AND NON VIOLENCE IS HYPOCRISY IF…

…if such appeal considers that Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and Baha’i justly deserve to burn in hell forever, experiencing physical and mental torture day and night, for not believing in Jesus deity, substitutionary atonement or physical resurrection. The violence exercised in all wars together is nothing compared with the madness and such theology.

Stop the madness. Any god who demands blood in exchange for mercy is an impostor.
Any god that is willing to torture or destroy religious groups is a genocidal impostor.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The Quran denies and loathes the Cross. As such the Quran should be promptly disposed of in the most convenient way.

Whoever justifies the torture or destruction of non-Christians in the afterlife denies and loathes the cross.
Such pro-genocidal doctrine should be promptly disposed.

 

[civic]

Whoever justifies the torture or destruction of non-Christians in the afterlife denies and loathes the cross.
Such pro-genocidal doctrine should be promptly disposed.

then you should reject the koran, its leader and its god.

 

[civic]

The OP has been proven by many here from scripture to be fallacious. The blood of Christ was/is essential to salvation as is the Resurrection of Christ which is the heart of the gospel. Jesus also made it essential as did the Apostles as to His true identity as God which also cannot be denied. He is called God many times, the Creator of everything , called YHWH, worshipped by His followers which would be idolatry if He was less than God, praised equally with the Father, worshipped equally with the Father, honored equally with the Father, glory equal with the Father by all creation in heaven.

Every knee will bow and tongue confess He is LORD/YHWH either in this life or the next when its to late.

conclusion: speaking the hard truth in love. truth cannot be compromised. And Jesus is the truth-God reveled in the flesh

hope this helps.

 

[civic]

Matthew 26:26-29
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

Hebrews 9:22
Because all things are purged by blood in The Written Law, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Leviticus 4:20,26,35
And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them

Leviticus 6:7
And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.

Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for your souls upon the altar; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

A Walk through Hebrews

Hebrews 9
Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2 A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3 Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4 which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5 Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.


6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

The Blood of Christ​

11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining[b] eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!


15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.


16 In the case of a will,[d] it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.”[e] 21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Hebrews 10
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[c]

18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

Hebrews 12
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Hebrews 13
The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Conclusion: The forgiveness of sins is found only in the blood of Christ- His life which He gave as a sacrifice for sin. That is the heart of the Atonement. It is what the New Covenant is found upon His blood/life which was given for our sins. Forgiveness is only found in His blood/life that He gave on our behalf. That is how are sins are removed and taken away. That is what the Law required for sin was the blood of the animal/sacrifice. Notice there is no punishment anywhere above for sin.

 

[civic]

I've always had something of an aversion to the "if Christianity is not true what do you lose" sort of apologetical approach—precisely because Scripture is God's word and because it is perfect in all that God reveals in it. To raise the question almost seems to inadvertently jeopardize the veracity of it. Nevertheless, that is precisely the kind of reasoning that the apostle Paul utilized in 1 Corinthians 15 after he appealed to the clear teaching of Scripture about Jesus' death and resurrection (1 Cor. 15:1-3).

What is at stake if we deny the resurrection?​

Writing to a church that was in danger of allowing false teaching to creep in, the apostle tackled the issue of what was at stake if we deny the resurrection. Beginning in verse 12, Paul raises eight "ifs" (following them up with some of the weightiest of all theology) in order to explain the significance of the resurrection for the life of the believers. Consider the following eight "ifs" about the implications of denying the resurrection:

• Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? (1 Cor. 15:12)
• But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised....For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. (1 Cor. 15:13, 16)
• And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. (1 Cor. 15:14)
• We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. (1 Cor. 15:15)
• And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. (1 Cor. 15:17-18)
• If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. (1 Cor. 15:19)
• If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf? (1 Cor. 15:29)
• If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” (1 Cor. 15:32)

According to the apostle's argument, if the resurrection never occurred one can categorize all that is lost under the following eight heads:

1. The Apostolic Message​

The first thing that is lost, if we deny the resurrection, is the centrality of the death and resurrection of Jesus in the apostolic message. That is the central message of Christianity. How can some profess to be Christians and deny the central message of Christianity? The resurrection cannot be said to be a mythological or analogical story. It was an historical event that turned the world upside down. This, Paul, said—at the outset of the chapter—was an essential part of what was "of first importance." In essence, Paul is saying, "If there is no resurrection, we have nothing left to preach because our message centers on Christ having been raised from the dead."

2. A Living Redeemer​

Next, the apostle heightens the argument by insinuating that if there is no resurrection from the dead, then "Christ is not risen." We not only lose the central message of Christianity if there is no resurrection—we lose the central figure of Christianity, namely, the living, reigning and returning Lord Jesus Christ.

3. The Efficacy of the Apostolic Word​

As Paul proceeds with his argument, he told the Corinthians that the resurrection ensures the efficacy of the word of God. If Christ is not risen, there is no power behind the message proclaimed and there is no power in the life of those who receive the preaching of the Gospel. Paul uses a form of the word κενος in verses 10, 14 and 58 in order to bolster this argument. He tells his readers in verse 10, God's "grace to me was not in vain." Then in verse 58 he reminds them that the resurrection of Christ ensures that “in the Lord your labor is not in vain.” Couched in between these bookends, Paul emphasizes that if Christ is not risen then his preaching and their faith is in vain (i.e. empty and powerless).

4. Apostolic Trustworthiness​

Moving on to another aspect of the resurrection, Paul explains that if Christ is not risen from the dead then he and the other apostles are false witnesses. He goes so far as to say that they would then be "misrepresenting God" because they "testified about God." There is an inseparability between the apostolic testimony and the testimony of God. Not only would the apostles be found untrustworthy—God would be found to be untrustworthy. The resurrection of Jesus secures the covenant faithfulness and absolute trustworthiness of God and his appointed witnesses.

5. The Forgiveness of Sins​

Perhaps the greatest of Paul's arguments is that which he sets out in verses 17-18. If Jesus is not raised, then no one has their sins forgiven. The logical implication of this is that those who have professed faith in Christ but who have already died have perished because they would not have had their sins forgiven. The forgiveness of sin is the greatest of all needs that we have. If Jesus was not raised from the dead, then we would have to conclude that his sacrifice was insufficient to atone for the sins of God's people and propitiate the wrath of God that we deserve for our sin.

The writer to the Hebrews captures the connection between the atonement and the resurrection so well when he writes, “the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus…by the blood of the eternal covenant” (Heb. 13:20). The blood of Jesus is the efficacious cause of the resurrection. The resurrection of Jesus is the validation that his blood was sufficient to atone for the sins of his people.

6. An Everlasting Hope​

The apostle began to introduce the idea of eternal hope when he claimed that those who have "fallen asleep in Christ" have perished if he has not been raised from the dead. Now, Paul shows another side. He focuses on the hope that believers have in this life. He speaks of this hope elsewhere, when, speaking of the death of beloved Christians, he tells believers that we do not sorrow "as others do who have no hope" (1 Thess. 4:13).

7. Union with Christ​

Everything in 1 Corinthians 15 centers on the believer's union with Christ in his death and resurrection. Our resurrection from the dead is guaranteed on the basis of our faith-union with Christ. When the apostle asks the incredibly confusing question, "Why then are they baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise," he appears to be speaking of the union that believers have with Christ (represented by their baptism into Christ). If this is correct, the argument would run thus: "If the dead do not rise—and Christ then belongs in the category of the dead—why then are you baptized into union with the dead?"

8. Joy in Tribulation​

Finally, Paul argues that if there is no resurrection, then he and the other apostles suffered for nothing. It was joy in the truth about the risen Christ—and the hope of the resurrection of believers—that drove the apostles forward to endure all of the persecution that they bore for the sake of the Gospel and the building up of the people of God. Paul reasons that, if there is no resurrection, we should give ourselves entire to hedonistic living because that would be all there is in which to find joy in this empty, futile and passing world.

We must preserve the truth of the resurrection.​

There is so much more that Paul brings forward in this chapter to show the significance and inevitable consequences of the resurrection; however, these are the explicit arguments that he puts forth to establish in the minds and hearts of believers what we lose if we do not hold firmly to the biblical truth about the resurrection from the dead. In short, we have everything to lose if we don't preserve the truth of the resurrection and everything to gain by constantly abiding in it.beautifulchristianlife.com

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Is holding to a a historical, literal resurrection of Jesus as a supernatural event necessary in order to be a Christian? The answer is simply and unwavering, yes. To deny the resurrection of Jesus Christ is to reject Christianity. You may claim to practice Christianity while denying the resurrection, but call it whatever you like – it is not Christianity.


There are certain areas of Christian doctrine that is non-negotiable. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of those essential beliefs that make Christianity what it is. To deny the resurrection turns Christianity into a religion of our own making.

1. To Deny the Resurrection is to Deny Jesus’ Deity​

One of the most essential tenants of Christianity is that Jesus is the son of God. He is both fully God and fully man. To say that Jesus did not rise from the dead is to say that he remained in the grave and his corpse decomposed and rotted away. God is eternal and if Jesus is the eternal God of the universe than must resurrect.


One of the essential truths of orthodox, apostolic Christianity is that Jesus is God in the flesh. Therefore to claim that Jesus never resurrected is to claim that Jesus is not God. This turns Jesus into a martyred good teacher rather than the living God and resurrected King he really is.

2. To Deny the Resurrection is to Call Jesus a Liar​

In the Gospel Jesus continually predicted his own death. There are several clear examples, but one comes from the Gospel of Mark. In Mark 9:31 Jesus says “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him. And when he is killed, after three days he will rise.” Jesus made explicit claims about his own life, death, and coming resurrection.


Therefore if anyone is going to deny that Jesus did not rise from the grave bodily is to call Jesus himself a liar. This would not even make Jesus a good moral teacher but simply a con-man whose ministry is nothing but charade of deception. To deny the resurrection is to turn Jesus into a crooked, forked tongue liar.

3. To Deny the Resurrection is to Deny Christ’s Substitionary Death​

One of the most dangerous results of denying the resurrection is that we lose salvation itself. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:17, “And if Christ has not been raised, our faith is futile and you are still in your sins.” Jesus resurrection is the approval that his death did pay the penalty for our sins. It is the confirmation that Jesus’ death on the cross was a substitutionary death. He died in the place of sinners. The sacrifice of Jesus paid in full all our sins and our redemption is secure.


When the resurrection is denied the very concept of salvation is lost. Without the resurrection Jesus’ life is nothing but a tragedy. Yet the greatest tragedy of no resurrection is that we remain condemned under the wrath and judgement of God because of our sins.

4. To Deny the Resurrection is to Deny Any Hope​

Any hope we have in present suffering, sorrow, or death comes only from the assuredness of the resurrection. Life can be filled with heartbreak in this fallen world. The only hope we have not only in this life, but in the life to come is that we know our redeemer lives. As Paul again writes in 1 Corinthians 15:19, “If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied”.


If we deny the resurrection we have no hope. Death will swallow us up and we will perish. We have no hope that king Jesus will return and vindicate his people. If the resurrection is not true all we have left is the ashes of God’s broken promises.

The Resurrection is Essential​

The Resurrection is essential to Christianity. In fact, to lose it is to lose every truth claim the church proclaims and believes. If Jesus was not raised than he is not God, he is a liar, his death was pointless, and we have no hope. If you deny Jesus’ bodily resurrection, though you may call it Christianity, it is anything but. If you deny the supernatural, physical resurrection of Jesus Christ you are not a Christian. You are still in your sins and you will one day find yourself before God condemned for your lack of belief.


Though a supernatural resurrection of Jesus may be difficult for the modern western mind, to reject it is to reject Jesus. The truth is that Jesus is alive as the ruling and reigning king of the universe. He is the resurrected Lord and “blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed”. (John 20:28)justindeeter.com

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Without a Resurrection Jesus Is Dead- There is no living Savior​

Paul answers by saying that to deny bodily resurrection is to deny the resurrection of the one who makes any and all resurrections possible- Jesus Christ our Risen Savior, Lord. Paul is simply taking us down the logical progression here: if there is no bodily resurrection, then “not even Christ has been raised” (v. 13). And if Christ is not raised ( still dead ) then we are also dead in our sins ( with no Savior ).

1 Corinthians 15
12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Paul makes it essential to ones faith and salvation above. No resurrection - no faith and one is dead in their sins with no Savior. It cannot be denied and must be affirmed. Its the central part if the gospel message- the centerpiece, the heart of the gospel.

Paul said below:
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.

conclusion: no resurrection no forgiveness of ones sins as per Pauls inspired words in 1 Cor 15 above. One is left dead in their sins.

hope this helps!!!

 

[civic]

Correcting the false teaching that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, a spiritual body is immaterial and the meaning of a life giving Spirit.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:50: “Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Jesus could not have risen in His human body of flesh and bones, because Scripture states that “flesh and blood” cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Notice that Jesus did not say that His resurrected body was made of “flesh and blood.” Rather, He said His body was made of “flesh and bone” (Luke 24:39). This is significant because the term “flesh and blood” is often used in Scripture to refer to mortal humanity,in contrast to the imperishable, resurrected body alluded to by the phrase, “flesh and bones.”

Far from claiming that the resurrected human body cannot inherit God’s kingdom, this passage asserts that the mortal, perishable human body (made of flesh and blood) cannot inherit the immortal, imperishable kingdom of God. Indeed as 1 Corinthians 15:53 states, “this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

A spiritual body denotes an immortal body. A spiritual body is one that is dominated by the spirit, not one that is devoid of matter. The Greek word pneumatikos means a body that is directed by the spirit as opposed to one under the dominion of the flesh. It is not ruled by the flesh that perishes but by the spirit that endures. (1 Corinthians 15:50-58). A spiritual body does no mean immaterial or invisible but immortal and imperishable. Paul makes these parallels:

Earthly- Heavenly (verse 40)
Perishable- Imperishable (verse 42)
Weak- Powerful(verse 43)
Natural-Supernatural(verse 44)
Mortal- Immortal(verse 53)

The content shows that spiritual (pneumatikos) could be translated supernatural in contrast to natural from the parallels of perishable and imperishable, corruptible and incorruptible. Pneumatikos is translated supernatural in 1 Corinthians 10:4 regarding the supernatural rock that followed them in the wilderness. In the translation spiritual refers to physical objects. In 1 Corinthians 10:45 Paul spoke of the spiritual rock that followed Israel in the wilderness from which they got spiritual drink 1 Corinthians 10:4.But the OT story (Exodus 17,Numbers 20)reveals it was a physical rock from which they got literal water to drink. The actual water they drank from the material rock was produced supernaturally. Further Paul spoke about a spiritual man 1 Corinthians 2:15 he obviously did not mean an invisible, immaterial man with no corporeal body. He was as a matter of fact speaking of a flesh and blood human being whose life is lived by the supernatural power of God, a literal person whose life is Spirit directed. A spiritual man is one who is taught by the Spirit and who receives the things that come from the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:13-14). The resurrection body can be called a spiritual body in much the same way we speak of the bible being a spiritual book. Regardless of their spiritual source and power both the resurrection body and the bible are material objects.

Life giving Spirit does not speak of the nature of Christ’s resurrected body but of the divine origin of the resurrection. Jesus physical body came back to life only by the power of God.(Romans 1:4). Paul is speaking about its spiritual source not its physical substance as a material body. If spirit describes the nature of Christ’s resurrected body then Adam with whom He is contrasted must not have a soul since he is described as of the earth, made of dust (verse 47). But the bible clearly says that Adam was a living soul(Genesis 2:7). Christ’s body is called a spiritual body(soma) which always means a physical body when referring to an individual human being. The resurrected body is called spiritual and life giving spirit because its source is in the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is from heaven as Adams natural body was from the earth. (verse 47). But just as the one from earth has an immaterial soul even so the One from heaven has a material body. Rhodes


1 Corinthians 15:38-41
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature

1- people
2- seed
3-animals
4-birds
5-fish
6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5

So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.

These Greek Lexicons agree that soma is physical just like Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15

Every Greek Lexicon and Dictionary agrees that the Resurrected BODY(SOMA) is physical and not immaterial.

Strong's Concordance
sóma: a body
Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sóma
Phonetic Spelling: (so'-mah)
Definition: a body
Usage: body, flesh;
HELPS Word-studies
4983 sṓma – the physical body.

NT:4983) is "the body as a whole, the instrument of life," whether of man living, e. g., Matt 6:22, or dead, Matt 27:52; or in resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:44; or of beasts, Heb 13:11; of grain, 1 Cor 15:37-38; of the heavenly hosts, 1 Cor 15:40.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

More proof soma is physical

as in Greek writings from Hesiod down, the living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (cf. Song of the Three, 63); σῶμα ψυχικόν and σῶμα πνευματικόν are distinguished, 1 Corinthians 15:44 (see πνευματικός, 1 and ψυχικός, a.); τό σῶμα τίνος, Matthew 5:29; Luke 11:34; Romans 4:19; Romans 8:23 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)), etc.; ὁ ναός τοῦ σωματου αὐτοῦ, the temple which was his body, John 2:21; plural, Romans 1:24; 1 Corinthians 6:15; Ephesians 5:28; the genitive of the possessor is omitted where it is easily learned from the context, as 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 4:10; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Hebrews 10:22(23), etc.; τό σῶμα τῆς ταπεινώσεως ἡμῶν, the body of our humiliation (subjective genitive), i. e. which we wear in this servile and lowly human life, opposed to τό σῶμα τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ (i. e. τοῦ Χριστοῦ), the body which Christ has in his glorified state with God in heaven, Philippians 3:21; διά τοῦ σωματου τοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the death of Christ's body, Romans 7:4; διά τῆς προσφοράς τοῦ σωματου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the sacrificial offering of the body of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 10:10; τό σῶμα τῆς σαρκός, the body consisting of flesh, i. e. the physical body Thayers Greek Lexicon


Spiritual does not mean immaterial as those who reject the physical, bodily Resurrection of Christ

Philippians 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
NASB

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.
NASB

Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.

And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.

pneumatikos: spiritual

Original Word: πνευματικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pneumatikos
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo-mat-ik-os')
Definition: spiritual
Usage: spiritual.



Thayer’s Greek Lexicon- belonging to the Divine Spirit; Used 26 times in the N.T.

a. in reference to things; emanating from the Divine Spirit, or exhibiting its effects and so its character: χάρισμα, Romans 1:11; εὐλογία, Ephesians 1:3; σοφία καί σύνεσις πνευματικῇ (opposed to σοφία σαρκικῇ, 2 Corinthians 1:12; ψυχική, James 3:15), Colossians 1:9; ᾠδαί, divinely inspired, and so redolent of the Holy Spirit, Colossians 3:16; (Ephesians 5:19 Lachmann brackets); ὁ νόμος (opposed to a σάρκινος man), Romans 7:14; θυσίαι, tropically, the acts of a life dedicated to God and approved by him, due to the influence of the Holy Spirit (tacitly opposed to the sacrifices of an external worship), 1 Peter 2:5; equivalent to produced by the sole power of God himself without natural instrumeutality, supernatural, βρῶμα, πόμα, πέτρα, 1 Corinthians 10:3, 4 ((cf. 'Teaching' etc. 10, 3 [ET])); πνευματικά, thoughts, opinions, precepts, maxims, ascribable to the Holy Spirit working in the soul, 1 Corinthians 2:13 (on which see συγκρίνω, 1); τά πνευματικά, spirithal gifts — of the endowments called χαρίσματα (see χάρισμα), 1 Corinthians 12:1; 1 Corinthians 14:1; universally, the spiritual or heavenly blessings of the gospel, opposed to τά σαρκικά, Romans 15:27; (1 Corinthians 9:11).

b. in reference to persons; one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 2:15 (cf. ); (); ; Galatians 6:1; οἶκος πνευματικός, of a body of Christians (see οἶκος, 1 b. at the end), 1 Peter 2:5. (The word is not found in the O. T. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 34, 3).


Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;


1 Corinthians 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.

Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Corinthians 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;

2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed (no body) but indeed with a heavenly body (like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.

Spiritual is used to describe these physical things:

the spiritual man
he who is spiritual
the spiritual rock
the spiritual food
the spiritual drink
the spiritual songs
the spiritual house
the spiritual things
the spiritual body

hope this helps,

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Some objections the skeptics have on the Resurrection answered.

Well the real issue is that Paul testifies that the gospel message is centered in the bodily Resurrection of Jesus as per 1 Corinthians 15 and other places in the N.T. His appearances are the evidence Paul uses to make His case in the first 8 opening verses in that chapter. Here are those facts he presents in order and he even leaves out the appearances to the women.

1- and that he appeared to Cephas,
2- and then to the Twelve.
3- After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.
4- Then he appeared to James,
5-then to all the apostles,
6-and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

a-So we know the tomb was empty.
b-Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have
c- He showed them His hands, feet and side which still retained His Crucifixion marks
d- the above proves it was the same body in the tomb that was raised back to life
e- scripture says His body did not undergo decay
f- His resurrected body was changed to become immortal, incorruptible and imperishable. A Glorified Spiritual body of flesh and bones

So having the above truth and facts regarding Jesus Resurrection we can eliminate all the theories which deny it.

1- What person knowing the Resurrection of Jesus was a lie would suffer torture and death ?
2- We have 3 separate groups of people gathered together at different times as eyewitness account of Jesus Resurrection
3- Knowing the Resurrection was true is the only explanation for being willing to suffer and die for Christ
4- Last but not least is the fact that these men and womens lives were drastically changes forever by the power of Jesus Resurrection. There lives were transformed from denying Christ to be willing to suffer and die for Him as Jesus had promised them would happen.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

in Summary of the essential doctrine of the Resurrection - the gospel of our salvation

We must remember Paul defines the gospel in 1 Cor 15:1-8 then spends the entire rest of the chapter focusing on the centerpiece of the gospel, the resurrection of Christ. Below are the reasons why in my humble estimation. It’s His Resurrection from the dead that is life giving , that conquered sin, death and the devil.

We must go back to the gospel and what the scriptures teach about the good news of Jesus death, burial and resurrection as defined in 1 Corinthians 15.

1 Corinthians 15:17- And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

The passage declares if Christ is not risen, raised from the dead, resurrected then our faith is in vain and we are still dead in our sins. We are saved by His life/Resurrection not His death. His death atoned for sin but does not give life.


Romans 4:24-25
but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Paul declares in Romans 5:10 the following: For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Cf Acts 17:31.

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

We know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Romans 10:17. We know that God saves those who believe – 1 Corinthians 1:21. We know that we receive the spirit and are sealed with the spirit through belief in the gospel- Ephesians 1:13.

Philippians 3:10 refers to the power displayed in the resurrection and the power that comes from it. The resurrection of Jesus Christ was a powerful demonstration of the power of God. Not only was Jesus raised up but we were raised up with Him (Ephesians 4:8; 2:6).

There is life-giving power of His resurrection. The resurrection power of God is His dunamis or explosive power. Resurrection life brings the life of God at our conversion when we are born again. (John 11:25 – 26; 1 John 5:12). The Holy Spirit indwells us when we are born again. We are changed, born of the Spirit, and we have the same life in us as He has, the Zoe life of God (2 Corinthians 5:17; John 3:3-8.)


Romans 6:4-6
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so, we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

Romans 8:10-11
And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

conclusion: don't let anyone try and fool you about this ESSENTIAL/CORE/SALVIFIC DOCTRINE - the Bodily Resurrection of Jesus the foundation of the gospel message that was preached by the Apostles. No Resurrection, no salvation. Those who deny it have another gospel, another jesus as per Paul in Galatians 1 and 1 Cor 15.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Studyman]

Conclusion
The phrase "Jesus, our great God and Savior" in Titus 2:13 is a robust declaration of Jesus’ deity, His role as the Savior of humanity, and His eschatological significance. The grammatical structure, particularly through the application of the Granville Sharp rule, affirms that both titles refer to Jesus Christ, underscoring His dual identity as both God and Savior within Christian theology.

Thanks @Studyman

J.

I get that you have your religious philosophy and can quote some scriptures and use your knowledge in the Greek and Hebrew language to defend and promote it. You used the same tactic to prove the Catholic sabbath is the Sabbath of God. No doubt you can use the same tactic to prove God's Judgments and statutes are no longer relevant. And this world's manmade high days, no doubt you can use Scriptures to justify them as well, along with the tradition of this world to reject and ignore God's Feasts. But I can read the sermons of a Messianic Jew, whose knowledge of Greek and Hebrew in certainly not inferior to you, promote a completely different philosophy. Or the theologians of the SDA who use the exact same method to justify their religious philosophies, or the JW's who also employ the same exact tactic, from the Same Holy Bible to prove and support their religious doctrines and philosophies you openly call a false teaching, along with the Mormons and other religious businesses and sects as well.

For me, a nobody simply seeking the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness, this shows me that clearly just because a promoter of one of this world's "many" religious sects and businesses believe in a philosophy, or a tradition, or a judgment, and quote some of God's Word, doesn't mean it is the Truth of God.

Even the bible teaches this. Anna was a simple poor widow woman who simply heard and believed Moses being read on the Sabbath Days of God in the Temple, and she knew Jesus as an 8 day old baby. While the great theologians, whose knowledge in Greek and Hebrew would dwarf yours if you were to be honest, knew of and heard Jesus teach face to face for years, and couldn't see the Spirit of God that was in Him. The same for Zacharias, a minor priest in the Temple whose job was to burn incense. But because he believed God and obeyed Him, He knew more about Jesus before HE was even born, than all the great theologians and doctors of the Law with greater knowledge, and access to more complete Scriptures than you even have available to you. And likewise for Simeon.

And those "many" who called Jesus Lord, Lord that Jesus spoke of, who "Prophesied in His Name", did many wonderful works in His Name, even cast out devils in His Name. There is no doubt that they also used Scripture and their knowledge of Greek and Hebrew to defend, justify and promote their religious philosophies and traditions which caused them to "work iniquity", in fulfillment of their mission to convert others to their specific religious sect.

So for me, a nobody who you have already judged on this very forum, as being inferior to you in knowledge, the exact same judgment Jesus and His apostles received from the mainstream religious sects of their time. The exact same judgment I receive from the promoters of the religious sect of the JW's, along with the promotes of the religious sects of the SDA, Catholic, Methodist, Mormon, MJ's and the rest. For me it is clear there is more to "Knowing the One True God AND Jesus Christ, that HE sent", than adopting one of this world's popular religious businesses, and then adopting and defending "their" traditions and philosophies, and then working to grow their business by converting others to their religion.

It's not personal with me. I'm not singling you out or singling out the religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting. I just don't see any real difference between any of this world's religious businesses and sects from those of Jesus' Time. They all cause those who adopt them and their religious philosophies and traditions, to transgress the commandments, Judgments and Statutes of God. The only difference is, modern religions do so "In Jesus Name", as Jesus Himself Prophesied.