brightfame52
Active Member
lol, God didnt love esau
God is Love
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
civic
Active Member
I'm sorry you are rejecting Jesus teaching on the gospel and atonement form John 3:16-18.
Your quote out of context in Romans 9 has nothing to do with the gospel and the atonement.
Just your usual EISEGESIS of Gods word. Reading your doctrine of calvin into the bible.
next fallacy
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Active Member
Duane
Active Member
Adam and Eve had eaten the fruit of which God had commanded them that they should not eat. When arraigned before God, they could not be brought to confess it. What reason can be given as to why the sentence of death should not be pronounced against the prisoners at the bar? How can God, consistently with His justice, possibly forgive them? Yet mercy cries: Spare these sinners, spare the work of Your own hands! Look then, wisdom contrives a scheme how God may be just and yet be merciful.
An amazing scene of divine love here opens to our view, which from all eternity had been hidden in the heart of God! Although Adam and Eve were repentant and did not so much as put up one single petition for pardon, God immediately passes sentence upon the serpent and reveals to them a Savior.
Adam and Eve stood by as criminals, and God could not indulge them because they had broken His covenant. God the Father and God the Son had entered into a covenant concerning the salvation of the elect from all eternity. The first Adam proved false. Therefore, to secure the second covenant from being broken, God puts it into the hands of the second Adam, the Lord from heaven. Adam after the Fall stood no longer as our representative. He and Eve were only private persons, as we are, and were only to lay hold on the declaration of mercy contained in this promise by faith.
Extreme Love: Discover and Experience God’s Love for You
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:8
Cross References
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
1 John 4:9-10
This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and only Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. / And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
Ephesians 2:4-5
But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, / made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit,
2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
Titus 3:4-5
But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, / He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
1 John 3:16
By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. / And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.
Isaiah 53:5-6
But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. / We all like sheep have gone astray, each one has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.
John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst.
1 John 2:2
He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Hebrews 9:26
Otherwise, Christ would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Isaiah 53:10
Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him and to cause Him to suffer; and when His soul is made a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Romans 3:5
But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
in that.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1 John 3:16
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
An amazing scene of divine love here opens to our view, which from all eternity had been hidden in the heart of God! Although Adam and Eve were repentant and did not so much as put up one single petition for pardon, God immediately passes sentence upon the serpent and reveals to them a Savior.
Adam and Eve stood by as criminals, and God could not indulge them because they had broken His covenant. God the Father and God the Son had entered into a covenant concerning the salvation of the elect from all eternity. The first Adam proved false. Therefore, to secure the second covenant from being broken, God puts it into the hands of the second Adam, the Lord from heaven. Adam after the Fall stood no longer as our representative. He and Eve were only private persons, as we are, and were only to lay hold on the declaration of mercy contained in this promise by faith.
Extreme Love: Discover and Experience God’s Love for You
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:8
Cross References
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
1 John 4:9-10
This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and only Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. / And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
Ephesians 2:4-5
But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, / made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit,
2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
Titus 3:4-5
But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, / He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
1 John 3:16
By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. / And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.
Isaiah 53:5-6
But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. / We all like sheep have gone astray, each one has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.
John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst.
1 John 2:2
He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Hebrews 9:26
Otherwise, Christ would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Isaiah 53:10
Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him and to cause Him to suffer; and when His soul is made a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Romans 3:5
But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
in that.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1 John 3:16
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Then why do you follow and worship such God?
If you TRULY believe that God didn’t love Esau or any person, the moral thing to do is to reject such god.
brightfame52
Active Member
By the Grace of God
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
How can the Grace of God make you worship a god who hates?
Hi Pancho,
Hope you have been well.
I would like to address this question, if you don't mind. It is written in our Holy Scriptures, that God's Words are written for me, for "my sake no doubt". He wants me to learn to choose to be a righteous person, of my own free will, which HE knows will be for my well being. This is my understanding.
Mal. 1: 1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, 3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
So if I Love God, and I see that there are behaviors that causes men to become wicked, and I know God hates wickedness as should we all, then I would take heed to seek out and find these behaviors, and be careful not to engage in them. For me, I am already told these Scriptures are written for me, for my admonition. It's not about Esau at all in my understanding, if I believe all that is written it is a parable to teach me.
In like manner, if I have already become Esau symbolically and I heard these Words, if I loved God I would repent and change. The Esau in me destroyed, crucified with Christ, replaced by a New Man, like Jacob "which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness".
It seems better, in my view, to seek the understanding of the Words of a God I know is a Loving God, to see what His Message is for me, than to judge or portray God as an immoral unloving God, which is not true, and miss out on the message HE had written just for me. Which may very well be the point you are alluding to in the first place.
Men would do well, in my view, to read all of Malachi in search of the wisdom and message God had written for them through Malachi, perhaps then they might come closer to knowing this God.
After all, isn't there a Jacob and Esau in all of us spiritually speaking? It seems God prefers the Jacob and I believe He is showing that to us, because HE loves us.
But ultimately it must be our choice. Forced respect, forced honor, is not God's Love in my view.
brightfame52
Active Member
By the will of God
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
So, my brother, it is the will of God that makes you follow a god who hates people?
People have murdered and enslaved other people under the argument that it is the will of God.
How can you tell it is the will of God to be immoral or to follow and immoral god?
brightfame52
Active Member
Its by the will of God I believe in the True God, who hates some people
Rory Wilson
Active Member
Clear understanding of Romans 9:13.
The quote from the lips of God seems contrary to our usual understanding of Him. We easily understand that He would love an unborn child, but why and how could He have hated Esau, let alone before birth? That's not the God we think we know. We have to keep in mind that cultures differ in how they speak, which involves more than just the specific words they use. Different societies use different forms and figures of speech, as well. In that era, the love-hate phrasing is meant to show a contrast, not to imply that one side is looked at in some insulting way.
It helps to look at another example of the word "hate" in the New Testament. Jesus said this to those who were deciding about whether to follow Him or not: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26). Clearly, Jesus doesn't want us to carry bitter, angry feelings toward our fathers, mothers, wives, and children. After all, we are commanded in Scripture to honor our parents, love our wives, and to raise our children wisely. In this case, the word "hate" is about comparison. Jesus wanted disciples who were so deeply committed to Him that their love for their family members looked like hate by comparison.
BibleRef
The quote from the lips of God seems contrary to our usual understanding of Him. We easily understand that He would love an unborn child, but why and how could He have hated Esau, let alone before birth? That's not the God we think we know. We have to keep in mind that cultures differ in how they speak, which involves more than just the specific words they use. Different societies use different forms and figures of speech, as well. In that era, the love-hate phrasing is meant to show a contrast, not to imply that one side is looked at in some insulting way.
It helps to look at another example of the word "hate" in the New Testament. Jesus said this to those who were deciding about whether to follow Him or not: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26). Clearly, Jesus doesn't want us to carry bitter, angry feelings toward our fathers, mothers, wives, and children. After all, we are commanded in Scripture to honor our parents, love our wives, and to raise our children wisely. In this case, the word "hate" is about comparison. Jesus wanted disciples who were so deeply committed to Him that their love for their family members looked like hate by comparison.
BibleRef
brightfame52
Active Member
Because He wanted to
Rory Wilson
Active Member
As we unpack Romans 9:13, we are faced with a challenge regarding free will and predestination. Some believe that this scripture supports the idea of predestination, suggesting that God has chosen some for salvation and others for condemnation. This can be unsettling, leading to various interpretations within the Christian community. However, we must remember that God’s sovereignty exists alongside human responsibility. While God indeed has the authority to choose, He does not force our decisions. Instead, He desires to draw us toward Him, allowing us to respond freely to His call.
scripturesavvy.com
Romans 9:13 Meaning and Commentary - Scripture Savvy
“Just as it is written: ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.’– Romans 9:13 Romans 9:13 Meaning In Romans 9:13, we encounter a profound statement from Paul that resonates deeply ... Finish Up
scripturesavvy.com
brightfame52
Active Member
He has done just that, no matter how unsettling men may see it to be. As you can see this is an aspect of the Gospel of God Paul was called to preach Rom 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rory Wilson
Active Member
However, we must remember that God’s sovereignty exists alongside human responsibility. While God indeed has the authority to choose, He does not force our decisions. Instead, He desires to draw us toward Him, allowing us to respond freely to His call.
brightfame52
Active Member
Not in predestination to salvation, man didnt exist when God made their eternal destiny fixed
