Every symbolic allegory of Christ in the OT?

[Dizerner]

my point was the lie part doesn't disqualify them. also rahab "lied" as well.

Every human being has lied. That's not my point.

Also Rahab's lie was in wartime and God blessed the midwives for lying—not all lies are sins, so your argument fails there.

 

[Dizerner]

In the beginning God said, "Let there be Light"

Right in the first chapter of Genesis we have a powerful type of Christ called upon clearly in John 1. We see a beautiful depiction of the Trinity in the first few verses of the Bible, just as we would expect. The Father’s orchestration, the Spirit’s maternal hovering and executive action, and the Son, the Word and the Light, in the beginning with God, as John tells us. There is something odd about the creation story—it starts out with chaos and darkness. It would not be like a perfectly orderly and good God to feel the need to add a bit of negativity to his creation, he has no need nor desire for that. But we understand it when we see the depiction of Christ coming into the world as the Light that enlightens every man shining in the darkness—the darkness comes first, because before Christ is Spoken into the world, original sin had already made its mark producing the curse of death and physical and moral corruption, and a world ruled over by Adam’s deceiver. Into that chaos and darkness God chose to speak his Son. Redemption is in the blueprints of creation itself. Some people use this oddity to create a “gap” theory between verse 1 and 2; a better understanding is to see that God foreknew original sin would mar and curse his creation, and so he needed Christ at the very outset, as a type of his eventual recreation after the destruction of sin.​

 

[civic]

Every human being has lied. That's not my point.

Also Rahab's lie was in wartime and God blessed the midwives for lying—not all lies are sins, so your argument fails there.

You made my point right now concerning “ Ethics” and war with your issue you brought up with David and Goliath. You have contradicted yourself and shut yourself in the foot.

 

[Dizerner]

You made my point right now concerning “ Ethics” and war with your issue you brought up with David and Goliath. You have contradicted yourself and shut yourself in the foot.

No, I didn't. I never said "there is no change of ethics in war."

My argument was war still has some form of ethics; to what extent it includes keeping your word, I left up to debate.

You set up something I never said, "a straw man," to easily shoot down.

I think sinful actions can still be a type of something, and I am possibly open to changing my mind.

But Rahab certainly doesn't qualify so far.

Jonah might be another try, but again he was repentant in that whale, and thus doing a good thing.

 

[Dizerner]

I've often thought that if Peter hadn't of denied Christ so completely before of the enemies of God..... they would have taken him away and killed him.

I think the Lord would have not let Peter be killed yet, although the point is moot.

 

[Dizerner]

I don't mean to discourage anyone's contributions.

Even if I don't entirely agree, anyone can contribute an idea here.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I think the Lord would have not let Peter be killed yet, although the point is moot.

Maybe. The Lord let Peter be Peter and that was enough....

I've had people over the years label me a "Deist" but I'm even close to being such. I believe in God's direct action in Humanity. I just believe it doesn't happen as often as most people insists it does. God sets limits and defines boundaries. We move within those boundaries and limits which produces sin.

That is why God has angels to minister to us. It is why we need to pray. It is why we have not because we ask not. So on and so forth.

 

[e v e]

Yeah, I always felt the story had signs of being symbolic but could never make anything really fit so I gave up on it.

The problem here is Jacob and his mother were mostly being deceitful and I don't think that would be used a positive type.

consider esau is of the enemy
which made eden fall
and stole the birthright
and belongs to egypt


and jacob is of God's souls...
and played out getting back the birthright...
and belongs to our promise, paradise


edit.
jacob did well.

 

[Dizerner]

consider esau is of the enemy
which made eden fall
and stole the birthright
and belongs to egypt


and jacob is of God's souls
playing out getting back the birthright...
and belongs to our promise, paradise

Jacob was just as sinful as Esau.

He just trusted in God's atonement, where Esau did not.

 

[e v e]

Jacob was just as sinful as Esau.

He just trusted in God's atonement, where Esau did not.

i believe esau is seed of the enemy and is not from God.

not then. not now.

 

[Dizerner]

David and Goliath... and Saul

David’s family belittling his call and anointing by judging him after the flesh, was similar to how Christ was belittled and judged in the flesh. Saul and Jonathan stand for Pharisaical religion that offers no salvation against the enemy but is full of pride. Saul tries to put his armor on David, standing for the heavy works of the Law under the power of the flesh. But David’s simple sling was his simple faith in God, a complete reliance and dependence upon the grace of God to bring the victory, in the singular rock of the work of Christ. David and Goliath stand for federal headship, if one wins, then all the others are enslaved. When Adam lost to Satan, humanity was enslaved to sin, and when Christ won over Satan he put demonic powers subject to his Church, and enslaves us to righteousness instead. Saul standing for the pride of fleshly false religious efforts, is always trying to destroy David, who stands for reliance upon the grace of God. As David’s character is tested and refined, God himself will eventually slay the false religious influence in our lives.​

 

[e v e]

i understand goliath as, along with esau,
entities of God's enemy and david as representing
God's souls who will overcome that enemy by His will...
a moment we wait for since adam betrayed us -
to return Home with Christ to our promised land forever
and never remember this foreign place again

 

[e v e]

like david, it is His sons who end goliath
any day now and have their victory with God's help.

 

[Dizerner]

Adam, a type of Christ

Adam is a type of Christ as a federal head of humanity from whom every human derives some inherited sense of life. Eve is a type of the Bride of Christ, as Christ went into a deep sleep on the Cross and from his side came forth the new race of believers he calls his own bride. Eden was a paradise, which meant a walled garden—a sheltered and nourished place of beauty, fellowship and growth. The one who walked with Adam in the garden and said "Where are you?" was one day to be a child of that very man he called to, who is called the seed of the women. It seems the symbolism of being a virgin birth must be connected to bypassing the headship of the male, as Eve did not eat the fruit without Adam being able to stop her as the true head. The symbol is, that somehow the sin nature was circumvented so that Satan had nothing in Christ when he was born, and he could live purely. Crushing the serpent's head, means debilitating the authority of the demonic for believers through the power of the atonement, which removes the devil's ground of condemnation. Bruising the heel of the women, is the momentary and temporary pain Christ suffered as a man to destroy all the devil's power of sin and death over us by judging both our sin and sin nature on that Cross. One man brought death to all—one man brought life.​

 

[e v e]

in my understanding, adam is not a type of christ
but represents disobedience

 

[Dizerner]

in my understanding, adam is not a type of christ
but represents disobedience

Romans 5 clears that up.

 

[Brakelite]

Do you think Satan hasn't ever accused God of deceiving him?

It is an allegory to struggle that man shares with Satan in sin. Man is always blaming God for things he doesn't know. God doesn't owe us knowledge. When we reject God and exercise our "independence"..... God is not obligated to impart to us knowledge so that we can avoid calamity.

I personally believe that Satan did not know "The Son" in the wilderness temptation. In fact, I believe Satan tried to get Christ to acknowledge Himself before him and Jesus refused. If Satan had known what God was planning and executing, Satan would have acted differently. Satan thought he was destroying the heir of Abraham. God showed Himself the "Better man" in the Atonement for sin. Better in every way.

When we desire independence from God, He gives it to us.

I will say the argument you're making in opposition seems "Calvinistic" in nature.

You think Satan didn't hear the Father say, "this is My Son" at his baptism? I think a major part of the temptation was for Jesus not to trust in the word of God. "If thou be the Son of God... Prove it..."

 

[Brakelite]

I posted an article on blog (which I haven't updated for a while)based on a sermon I heard, called "The Way", based on
KJV Psalms 77:13
13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

Brakelite's Breach Repair, Brick by Brick.

But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay. Jeremiah 20:9

brakelite.wordpress.com

 

[Dizerner]

I posted an article on blog (which I haven't updated for a while)based on a sermon I heard, called "The Way", based on
KJV Psalms 77:13
13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

Brakelite's Breach Repair, Brick by Brick.

But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay. Jeremiah 20:9

brakelite.wordpress.com

Can you summarize that.

 

[Brakelite]

Can you summarize that.

Lol. The Sanctuary. Start at the door... Then the altar of sacrifice. Then comes the laver for washing... Baptism... Water of life. Inside the first apartment to the right is the table of showbread...bread of life. To the left, the candlestick, the Light of the world. Directly ahead, the altar of incense... Mediator... Intercessor. Beyond the veil is the ark containing the tables of the covenant... The law of God, of which the Son is the personification.
The priesthood itself is a type, as are the feast days types of Christ's ministry... Passover, Pentecost etc.
There is more. But, you asked for a summary, and that's a summary