Eternal Generation of the Son (Aseity)

[mikesw]

Jesus being theos just like king Solomon (Psalm 45:6, Hebrews 1:8) proves my point that Jesus is not different than other humans who are called theos or elohim. You're the one who brought this topic up, you really walked right into it.

you take a prophetic passage of the Messiah in Psa 45:6 to deny the true preexistent One being God and with God becoming Jesus? Then you use your misconception of Ps 45:6 to misinterpret Heb 1:8. Good unitarian technique for those who do not want the real Christ.

 

[Runningman]

you take a prophetic passage of the Messiah in Psa 45:6 to deny the true preexistent One being God and with God becoming Jesus? Then you use your misconception of Ps 45:6 to misinterpret Heb 1:8. Good unitarian technique for those who do not want the real Christ.

You are trying to deny that Psalm 45:6 and Hebrews 1:8 apply to Solomon and Jesus in the same way. You simply cannot deny this. You can argue and accuse, but you can't change what is written.

 

[mikesw]

You are trying to deny that Psalm 45:6 and Hebrews 1:8 apply to Solomon and Jesus in the same way. You simply cannot deny this. You can argue and accuse, but you can't change what is written.

Your interpretation does not trump everyone else's finding. If you have some deeper source, share what that is. You make bold, unique statements but they are only your assertions.

 

[Runningman]

Your interpretation does not trump everyone else's finding. If you have some deeper source, share what that is. You make bold, unique statements but they are only your assertions.

Your findings do not match the written word of Scripture. You always lose debates because your trinitarian philosophy does not take into account the Scripture. You cannot have Hebrews 1:8 without Psalm 45:6. Going into denial mode every time you can't explain something is juvenile. Address the Scripture instead of just always trying to poison the well of truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Your findings do not match the written word of Scripture. You always lose debates because your trinitarian philosophy does not take into account the Scripture. You cannot have Hebrews 1:8 without Psalm 45:6. Going into denial mode every time you can't explain something is juvenile. Address the Scripture instead of just always trying to poison the well of truth.

You denying the scripture, its clear the Holy Ghost has applied Ps 45:6 to Jesus the Son of God, you put reason over revelation

 

[Runningman]

You denying the scripture, its clear the Holy Ghost has applied Ps 45:6 to Jesus the Son of God, you put reason over revelation

Is the whole chapter about a human king with a queen and daughters in Psalm 45? Traditionally it's about Solomon.

 

[brightfame52]

Is the whole chapter about a human king with a queen and daughters in Psalm 45? Traditionally it's about Solomon.

Doesnt matter, the Holy Spirit reveals Heb 1:8 is God from the Psalms 45. A lot of times scripture has two different meanings, the letter and the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Author correct ?

 

[mikesw]

Your findings do not match the written word of Scripture. You always lose debates because your trinitarian philosophy does not take into account the Scripture. You cannot have Hebrews 1:8 without Psalm 45:6. Going into denial mode every time you can't explain something is juvenile. Address the Scripture instead of just always trying to poison the well of truth.

Scriptures are the debating territory under Sola Scriptura. Since you have a unique view of passages, you will have to change to decent arguments to promote your adaptations to the meaning.

 

[Runningman]

Doesnt matter, the Holy Spirit reveals Heb 1:8 is God from the Psalms 45. A lot of times scripture has two different meanings, the letter and the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Author correct ?

The Holy Spirit revealed in Psalm 45 that the human king being mentioned is god. The Holy Spirit reveals that this king, traditionally thought to be Solomon, is not Lord God Almighty. The same thing is said of Jesus in Hebrews 1:8. Therefore we know that the Holy Spirit reveals that Jesus is not God. If you reject the Holy Spirit and the Scripture then you are in error.

 

[Runningman]

Scriptures are the debating territory under Sola Scriptura. Since you have a unique view of passages, you will have to change to decent arguments to promote your adaptations to the meaning.

I think you would have been dragged off the stage ages ago in a formal debate. You're just surviving at this point. You don't even have any rebuttals to what I pointed out about Solomon and Jesus sharing the same titles.

 

[mikesw]

I think you would have been dragged off the stage ages ago in a formal debate. You're just surviving at this point. You don't even have any rebuttals to what I pointed out about Solomon and Jesus sharing the same titles.

It is unnecessary to address your silly notions of Solomon being seen as a god. Even if the passage were used of a king, it would not be greater than what was said of Moses -- that he would be as Yahweh before Pharaoh.

 

[Ladodgers6]

pre-temporal of the Son? the eternal Son of God? I have given my position on the preexistence and it hasn't changed no matter how you phrase it.

One Lord, Jesus Christ through whom God acted to accomplish the redemption of mankind.

in him, through him and for him all things were created --- 'all' in a limited sense - If I say "My child ate all the cookies!" Do I mean my child ate all the cookies in the world? No, I mean my child ate all the cookies I had, i.e. in a limited sense.
the all things that were created is clearly listed ......

Thanks. I am familiar with the topic --- I was raised a Trinitarian.
According to scripture and Jesus himself - Jesus was a mortal man, a human being like Adam. Where Adam fell, Jesus succeeded! Scripture cannot be broken.

Thanks anyways, AG. But I bid you a farewell. My suggestion to you, is do your homework. Read about the Nascent Church, Nicene Fathers, Chalcedon, and so forth. Read Tertullian, Origen, Irenaeus, St. Augustine, Peter Lombard, John Gill, Calvin and many more. Now, if you do want to seek the truth, then put in the work. I learn that a long time ago, that no matter who you read challenge it with Scripture. I also read from your camp, but they are lost and most importantly they lost the Trinity, the Triune God---Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who are so regardless of creation, redemption. The Tripersonal Essence & Autothean Personhood do not need creation, redemption or man to be the One Triune Trinity, they are in and of themselves the One Triune Trinity.​

 

[Runningman]

It is unnecessary to address your silly notions of Solomon being seen as a god. Even if the passage were used of a king, it would not be greater than what was said of Moses -- that he would be as Yahweh before Pharaoh.

Psalm 45 wasn't originally written about Jesus. It was later applied to him, big difference. It's silly we have to go over this, but right off the bat the writer identifies the subject of Psalm 45 as someone who is handsome, contrary to Isaiah 53:2 prophesying of Jesus "He had no stately form or majesty to attract us, no beauty that we should desire Him." This means that Psalm 45 isn't about Jesus. It's about someone else through the entire chapter.

Psalm 45
2You are the most handsome of men;
grace has anointed your lips;
therefore God has blessed you forever.

 

[mikesw]

Psalm 45 wasn't originally written about Jesus. It was later applied to him, big difference. It's silly we have to go over this, but right off the bat the writer identifies the subject of Psalm 45 as someone who is handsome, contrary to Isaiah 53:2 prophesying of Jesus "He had no stately form or majesty to attract us, no beauty that we should desire Him." This means that Psalm 45 isn't about Jesus. It's about someone else through the entire chapter.

Psalm 45
2You are the most handsome of men;
grace has anointed your lips;
therefore God has blessed you forever.

oh. the writer of Hebrews messed up really badly. That is a keen insight for denying the preexistence of Jesus as the person called the Word.

 

[brightfame52]

The Holy Spirit revealed in Psalm 45 that the human king being mentioned is god. The Holy Spirit reveals that this king, traditionally thought to be Solomon, is not Lord God Almighty. The same thing is said of Jesus in Hebrews 1:8. Therefore we know that the Holy Spirit reveals that Jesus is not God. If you reject the Holy Spirit and the Scripture then you are in error.

Its quite clear the Holy Spirit applies Ps 45 to Heb 1:8 identifying the Son of God as God

 

[amazing grace]

Thanks anyways, AG. But I bid you a farewell. My suggestion to you, is do your homework. Read about the Nascent Church, Nicene Fathers, Chalcedon, and so forth. Read Tertullian, Origen, Irenaeus, St. Augustine, Peter Lombard, John Gill, Calvin and many more. Now, if you do want to seek the truth, then put in the work. I learn that a long time ago, that no matter who you read challenge it with Scripture. I also read from your camp, but they are lost and most importantly they lost the Trinity, the Triune God---Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who are so regardless of creation, redemption. The Tripersonal Essence & Autothean Personhood do not need creation, redemption or man to be the One Triune Trinity, they are in and of themselves the One Triune Trinity.​

Thanks but as you believe you have found the truth ---- I know I have found the truth.
I consider my fathers in the faith to be Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David and all the OT prophets NOT some church council that changed the whole foundation of the early church's belief.
So, I follow the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of Israel, the God of Jesus ---- God the Father, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent.

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. [Acts 16:30,31]

thanks again but I am not in fear of my redemption or my salvation - looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.