atpollard
Active Member
Yes, and it is fortunate for us that all three are a GIFT from God (and not of ourselves, that we should boast).
Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".
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A sinner cannot do any work of holiness, he is enslaved to sin. All repentance and faith by a believer is ONLY by the grace of GOD...Romans 1!
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atpollard
Active Member
None of us are … that is why GOD does all the heavy lifting himself:
- For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. - Romans 9:15-16 [ESV]
- For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 [ESV]
… and the only thing God requires of us is:
- If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. - Romans 10:9-10 [NLT]
- Do you believe ‘Jesus rose from the dead’?
- Have you confessed ‘Jesus is Lord’?
- If so, then you “are saved”! (God said so.)
TibiasDad
Active Member
I didn’t and don’t say anything of the sort! As I have said, the capacity to believe in my wife, or something a preacher or teacher says, or whether the world is round or flat, is the same capacity I employ to believe the gospel. It is precisely the same mechanism!
Now grace is necessary to persuade my heart of the truth, to bring me to realize my guilt before God! God didn’t not have to reach out to me, did not have to send his son into the world. Grace is necessary for salvation to exist; grace is necessary for me to have something better to believe in. Without the grace of God extending the hope of the gospel, my capacity to believe would still exist, but my capacity to believe would have nothing of meaningful value in which to believe.
Again, the capacity to believe, to trust, is inherent to the image of God which is relational at its core. Relationships cannot exist sans the capacity to trust and believe. What we need, is the right thing to believe in! That is where grace enters, stage right!
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
TibiasDad
Active Member
Salvation is the gift, eternal life is the gift. Salvation is not of our own doing, nor can it be. Grace and faith are the means of salvation according to the Greek syntax of Eph 2:8-9!
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
Yes...until one becomes a sinner enslaved by sin as Jesus has told us.
TibiasDad
Active Member
We are born enslaved to sin, thanks to Adam! That becomes evident the moment we are cognizant of right and wrong. We don’t become enslaved by sin, be become sinners because we are enslaved by the sinful nature!
Doug
How can anyone believe that GOD who is LOVE, who is HOLY and who cannot bide sin, created a system by which all of HIS creation was placed into sinfulness by the action of another????
Ezek 18:20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of his father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of his son. Adam is our father and we do not bear his iniquity!!!
WE can only be enslaved to sin by a free will decison to become sinful in HIS sight...
TibiasDad
Active Member
Why then has not one human born of Adam ever not sinned? We are not personally condemned by Adam’s sin, but we are affected by Adam’s sin.
We are condemned by our own personal acts of sin alone, but we are guaranteed to sin by the effects of Adam’s sin. We are born apart from God, with a natural tendency toward sinning.
Doug
Selah
Active Member
Yes, because we are presently in flesh bodies. It won’t always be so. One day soon, in the twinkling of an eye, we will be changed into our spiritual bodies. I’m looking forward to that. —selah
s e l a h
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TibiasDad
Active Member
FreeInChrist
Active Member
@TibiasDad
A person who dies in their sins do not have eternal life, they await in the grave until the resurrection at the last day to be resurrected and resurrected they shall be, to be judged and then cast into the lake of fire to perish with everlasting destruction.
To believe this is foolish, that there was, or even now, a communication between the dead who died in their sin and the righteous. It goes against too many scriptures. Luke 16 is a parable, based upon Jesus Christ forgoing words, and can easily be proven to be such, without a lot of effort, would you care to see and debate this?
A person who dies in their sins do not have eternal life, they await in the grave until the resurrection at the last day to be resurrected and resurrected they shall be, to be judged and then cast into the lake of fire to perish with everlasting destruction.
brightfame52
Active Member
Its Grace that makes a person a believer, its the grace of sanctification of the Spirit that causes a gospel obedience 1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
The Spirits work brings about obedience. Obedience here is Faith in Christ, Faith in His Blood
JFB explains this good
@atpollard
Brother, there are "NO" (not shouting to you, just emphasizing this blessed truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ.) requirements to be saved from our sin and condemnation, none whatsoever.
The verses above that you quoted are speaking of being saved in a practical sense, which only can be applied to those who fear God, have a true zeal, yet that zeal is not founded on true understanding of the gospel of Christ; "once" a person comes to the truth of gospel, that Christ is the end of the Law (any commandment that in essence said: "This DO and live, sin, and die") then if they do as Romans 10:9,10 said, then they shall be saved with the true knowledge of the gospel of Christ and KNOW IT!
Dear brother context is king and it will drive the true biblical meaning of a text, verses or chapter as it is in the case before us. Romans 10:1-4 is critical in understanding Paul's teaching down through verse 17.
Concerning Ephesians 2:8, most do not understanding what Paul is teaching there. As most bible students understand that the bible and its separate doctrines must be understood as a cohesive whole, and all scriptures on the particular doctrine must all flow together without a break in them before we can be assured we have the truth on whatever we are considering.
Jesus Christ was sent into the world to be our surety, which no one preaches this truth anymore, and most are in the dark concerning this blessed truth. This is truly sad. Jesus Christ came and in our place stood as our surety before the law of God, and by his perfect life of life and obedience offered unto God an offering to satisfied the demands of God's law, and when the law of God found our sins on him, he was put to death, yet death had no power over him because of his perfect faith and obedience, and thereby was raised from dead by the power of the spirit of holiness, which demanded that Christ and all of the members of his elect body, he being the head thereof be raised to sit in the heavenly places until God made all of his enemies his footstool, which may be soon finish. So, reading Ephesians 2:8 in light of the overall scriptures teachings concerning the gospel of Christ, it is clear what Paul is teaching.
In Ephesians 2:8 we have a classic example of an metonymy. The only faith that saves us legally is the faith of Christ, for no man can have faith in God, the faith that meets the requirement of a Royal law, a faith that is produce by perfect obedience to its laws! Jesus Christ alone had the faith that honoured God's law in all points, from conception, to death, in thoughts, words, and deeds ~ and "this faith alone" is the only means of man's free justification. This faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God secured for God's elect by our surety, Jesus Christ. This faith is given to us in regeneration when the Spirit of God creates a new man within us after the image of his Son, Jesus Christ.
When a man hears and believes, it is not the old man (for that is impossible) but his new man that is a creative work in God's elect by the almighty power of God~this birth happens to a child of God sometimes after conception and before death, and is evidenced by faith and obedience to the word of God. Two prime examples of this is John the the Baptist and the thief on the cross.
I could spend more time proving the metonymy in Ephesians 2:8 by the context in just before verse 8, in verses: 4-6..."But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"
We were IN CHRIST from all eternity, even while he lived in this world and in his death and resurrection, which secured our redemption for us. What he did, it was as though we did it, what happen to Christ happened to us legally speaking two thousand years ago.
Folks going to Greek only shows they have no clue as to what Paul is saying, they are grasping at anything they can get their hands on to come up something that takes away from the gospel of Jesus Christ. They truly need to prayerfully reconsider Galatians 1:8,9 now while they are still living in the land of living before they come face to face with the God that gave us his truth concerning his only begotten Son.
I'm still weak and recovering, so please over look errors in posting.
You said: … "and the only thing God requires of us is:"
Brother, there are "NO" (not shouting to you, just emphasizing this blessed truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ.) requirements to be saved from our sin and condemnation, none whatsoever.
The verses above that you quoted are speaking of being saved in a practical sense, which only can be applied to those who fear God, have a true zeal, yet that zeal is not founded on true understanding of the gospel of Christ; "once" a person comes to the truth of gospel, that Christ is the end of the Law (any commandment that in essence said: "This DO and live, sin, and die") then if they do as Romans 10:9,10 said, then they shall be saved with the true knowledge of the gospel of Christ and KNOW IT!
Dear brother context is king and it will drive the true biblical meaning of a text, verses or chapter as it is in the case before us. Romans 10:1-4 is critical in understanding Paul's teaching down through verse 17.
Concerning Ephesians 2:8, most do not understanding what Paul is teaching there. As most bible students understand that the bible and its separate doctrines must be understood as a cohesive whole, and all scriptures on the particular doctrine must all flow together without a break in them before we can be assured we have the truth on whatever we are considering.
Jesus Christ was sent into the world to be our surety, which no one preaches this truth anymore, and most are in the dark concerning this blessed truth. This is truly sad. Jesus Christ came and in our place stood as our surety before the law of God, and by his perfect life of life and obedience offered unto God an offering to satisfied the demands of God's law, and when the law of God found our sins on him, he was put to death, yet death had no power over him because of his perfect faith and obedience, and thereby was raised from dead by the power of the spirit of holiness, which demanded that Christ and all of the members of his elect body, he being the head thereof be raised to sit in the heavenly places until God made all of his enemies his footstool, which may be soon finish. So, reading Ephesians 2:8 in light of the overall scriptures teachings concerning the gospel of Christ, it is clear what Paul is teaching.
In Ephesians 2:8 we have a classic example of an metonymy. The only faith that saves us legally is the faith of Christ, for no man can have faith in God, the faith that meets the requirement of a Royal law, a faith that is produce by perfect obedience to its laws! Jesus Christ alone had the faith that honoured God's law in all points, from conception, to death, in thoughts, words, and deeds ~ and "this faith alone" is the only means of man's free justification. This faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God secured for God's elect by our surety, Jesus Christ. This faith is given to us in regeneration when the Spirit of God creates a new man within us after the image of his Son, Jesus Christ.
When a man hears and believes, it is not the old man (for that is impossible) but his new man that is a creative work in God's elect by the almighty power of God~this birth happens to a child of God sometimes after conception and before death, and is evidenced by faith and obedience to the word of God. Two prime examples of this is John the the Baptist and the thief on the cross.
I could spend more time proving the metonymy in Ephesians 2:8 by the context in just before verse 8, in verses: 4-6..."But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"
We were IN CHRIST from all eternity, even while he lived in this world and in his death and resurrection, which secured our redemption for us. What he did, it was as though we did it, what happen to Christ happened to us legally speaking two thousand years ago.
Folks going to Greek only shows they have no clue as to what Paul is saying, they are grasping at anything they can get their hands on to come up something that takes away from the gospel of Jesus Christ. They truly need to prayerfully reconsider Galatians 1:8,9 now while they are still living in the land of living before they come face to face with the God that gave us his truth concerning his only begotten Son.
I'm still weak and recovering, so please over look errors in posting.
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Eph. 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved "through faith"; "and that not of yourselves": it is the gift of God:
"Now "faith" is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".
Substance here means "confidence" in the Greek.
For instance, tomorrow isn't here yet. I have not seen, nor can I see tomorrow, yet I am confident that tomorrow will come. So much so, that I "plan" on tomorrow. I "wait" until tomorrow. I "hope" for tomorrow. This is belief in something that is not seen, shown by my "works". (wait, hope, plan)
I am told by the Lord's Christ that if I repent from my sinful ways, that is, if I change from living in transgression to God's Word, which is God's definition of Sin, to "living by" God's Word, which is defined by God as "Righteousness", that He will have mercy on me, and give me His Grace, which is underserved in that in times past I "walked (Lived) according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."
Jesus said without this repentance, there is no life. "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
9 Not of (Man's) works, lest any "man" should boast.
To preach that there are "NO" works involved in the Salvation of God is foolishness, and completely untrue. To teach or imply as much is a horrible deception that completely negates the entire Life and Sacrifice of the Lord's Christ. It also negates the "Word" of God Jesus Himself told men to "Live by", which are "God's Works, not "men's works". Clearly Paul isn't teaching to reject God's Word, which becomes perfectly clear in the following sentence that ",many", who come in Christ's Name, don't want to talk about so much.
10 For "we",
Who are these "We"? Shall we consider all of Paul's teaching? Are these "WE" not those who have "repented and turned to God, and brought forth works meet for repentance." Would these "Works" be man's works, that they might boast? Or are these God's Works that HE before ordained that we should walk in them? No Sir, the "WE" Paul is speaking to are those men who have denied themselves, and "Yielded themselves" to God and "HIS" Righteousness, as revealed in the Law and Prophets, or as Paul calls them, "The Gospel of Christ". This is shown again in the following verse.
are "his workmanship", created in Christ Jesus unto "good works", which God (Not Man) hath before ordained that "we" should "walk in them".
The way mainstream religions of this world, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, use Eph. 2:8&9 to promote the abolition of God's instruction in righteousness, or to negate the requirement of God to repent from "Walking in" the traditions and ways of religious men, and be renewed in the spirit of our minds to deny our own ways, and "Yield ourselves" to God's Ways, is awful, in my view. We have been warned about being deceived by these "many" who "say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you".
And when verses 1-10 in Eph. 2, are examined in truth, it doesn't teach against walking in God's Laws at all. Just the opposite.
For me, I have "Faith" or confidence in God and His Word to direct me into His Righteousness, even in a world where religious men who profess to know God, demean and ridicule such a man as trying to earn salvation "by his works". John saw these men coming, and prepared me for their judgments.
1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as "he" is righteous.
I can't see the undeserved pardon (Grace), but I "hope" for it, I "wait" for it, I "plan" for it, as it is written.
1 Peter 1: 13 Wherefore gird up the loins "of your mind", be sober, and hope to the end "for the grace" that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 "As obedient children", not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Agreed. This was a Parable of a future event when the dead are raised. It is written that the Dead in Christ, like Abraham and David and Lazarus and Paul will be raised first, while those who are not dead in Christ will be raised 1000 years later. It is interesting that the Rich man didn't know about the 1000 years, or in my understanding, the great gulf between him and Abraham. Nor did he realize his brothers were also dead and were also not with Abraham. This is an interesting parable which shows, in my view, that the dead are not aware of time, which aligns with scriptures, "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten".
Since God is a God of the Living, we know the names of Abraham and Lazarus, but God didn't even mention the name of the rich man.
There is a lot of information revealed in this parable. That the condemned will be able to see and communicate with the non-condemned is just one of them.
