Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".

[atpollard]

Is grace a necessary condition for salvation?
Is faith a necessary condition for salvation?

Yes, and it is fortunate for us that all three are a GIFT from God (and not of ourselves, that we should boast).

 

[TedT]

Believing is by Grace. Its not a condition either, that makes salvation by works.

A sinner cannot do any work of holiness, he is enslaved to sin. All repentance and faith by a believer is ONLY by the grace of GOD...Romans 1!

 

[atpollard]

You know.... I am increasingly becoming aware that I am not smart enough to be a Christian or to be saved.

None of us are … that is why GOD does all the heavy lifting himself:

• For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. - Romans 9:15-16 [ESV]
• For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 [ESV]

… and the only thing God requires of us is:

• If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. - Romans 10:9-10 [NLT]
• Do you believe ‘Jesus rose from the dead’?
• Have you confessed ‘Jesus is Lord’?
• If so, then you “are saved”! (God said so.)

 

[TibiasDad]

No sir...The capacity to believe against the force of our enslavement to sin is only achievable by grace... No sinner has any power to chose to repent by his own will or the idea the Jesus told us about being enslaved by evil is nonsense...

I didn’t and don’t say anything of the sort! As I have said, the capacity to believe in my wife, or something a preacher or teacher says, or whether the world is round or flat, is the same capacity I employ to believe the gospel. It is precisely the same mechanism!

Now grace is necessary to persuade my heart of the truth, to bring me to realize my guilt before God! God didn’t not have to reach out to me, did not have to send his son into the world. Grace is necessary for salvation to exist; grace is necessary for me to have something better to believe in. Without the grace of God extending the hope of the gospel, my capacity to believe would still exist, but my capacity to believe would have nothing of meaningful value in which to believe.

Again, the capacity to believe, to trust, is inherent to the image of God which is relational at its core. Relationships cannot exist sans the capacity to trust and believe. What we need, is the right thing to believe in! That is where grace enters, stage right!


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Grace is totally necessary for a sinner to repent...and faith in the Son as the only salvation from sin is absolutely a condition of coming under HIS election promise of salvation from all choices to be evil.

Every sinner without faith in HIM is condemned already, Jn 3:18, before being sown, not created, into mankind, Matt 13:36-39...

I agree completely…

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes, and it is fortunate for us that all three are a GIFT from God (and not of ourselves, that we should boast).

Salvation is the gift, eternal life is the gift. Salvation is not of our own doing, nor can it be. Grace and faith are the means of salvation according to the Greek syntax of Eph 2:8-9!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Grace to SINNERS is an absolute necessity to overcome their enslavement to evil.

Then what are we arguing about?

Doug

 

[TedT]

Again, the capacity to believe, to trust, is inherent to the image of God which is relational at its core.

Yes...until one becomes a sinner enslaved by sin as Jesus has told us.

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes...until one becomes a sinner enslaved by sin as Jesus has told us.

We are born enslaved to sin, thanks to Adam! That becomes evident the moment we are cognizant of right and wrong. We don’t become enslaved by sin, be become sinners because we are enslaved by the sinful nature!


Doug

 

[TedT]

We are born enslaved to sin, thanks to Adam!

How can anyone believe that GOD who is LOVE, who is HOLY and who cannot bide sin, created a system by which all of HIS creation was placed into sinfulness by the action of another????

Ezek 18:20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of his father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of his son. Adam is our father and we do not bear his iniquity!!!

WE can only be enslaved to sin by a free will decison to become sinful in HIS sight...

 

[TibiasDad]

How can anyone believe that GOD who is LOVE, who is HOLY and who cannot bide sin, created a system by which all of HIS creation was placed into sinfulness by the action of another????

Ezek 18:20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of his father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of his son. Adam is our father and we do not bear his iniquity!!!

WE can only be enslaved to sin by a free will decison to become sinful in HIS sight...

Why then has not one human born of Adam ever not sinned? We are not personally condemned by Adam’s sin, but we are affected by Adam’s sin.

We are condemned by our own personal acts of sin alone, but we are guaranteed to sin by the effects of Adam’s sin. We are born apart from God, with a natural tendency toward sinning.

Doug

 

[Selah]

Why then has not one human born of Adam ever not sinned? We are not personally condemned by Adam’s sin, but we are affected by Adam’s sin.

We are condemned by our own personal acts of sin alone, but we are guaranteed to sin by the effects of Adam’s sin. We are born apart from God, with a natural tendency toward sinning.

Doug

Yes, because we are presently in flesh bodies. It won’t always be so. One day soon, in the twinkling of an eye, we will be changed into our spiritual bodies. I’m looking forward to that. —selah

s e l a h

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes, because we are presently in flesh bodies. It won’t always be so. One day soon, in the twinkling of an eye, we will be changed into our spiritual bodies. I’m looking forward to that. —selah

s e l a h

Amen, come quickly Lord Jesus!

Doug