Does The Virgin Birth Matter?

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The doctrine of the virgin birth teaches that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin. That is, when Mary conceived Jesus, she had never had sexual intercourse. Jesus’ birth, therefore, was truly miraculous.

Some progressive Christians would have us believe that it wouldn’t be a big deal if we discovered “Jesus had an earthly father named Larry.” So what is the big deal about the virgin birth? Why does it matter?

The Bible teaches the preexistence of the eternal Son of God. In Isaiah 9:6, the child who is “born” is also the son who is “given.” In like manner, Galatians 4:4 also teaches the preexistence and virgin birth of Christ: “God sent His Son, born of a woman.” The virgin birth is important because that was the means by which “the Word became flesh” (John 1:14). The incarnation is when the eternal Son of God took on human flesh; without losing any of His divine nature, He added a human nature. That miraculous, history-changing event took place in the Virgin Mary’s womb.

The virgin birth of Jesus is an example of God’s gracious work on our behalf. God took the initiative—Mary was not looking to become pregnant—it was all God’s idea. Joseph had no role in the conception—his body was not involved—so the power had to come from God. In a similar way, our salvation is based solely on God’s initiative and God’s power—we did not seek God, but He sought us; and we did nothing to earn our salvation, but we rely on God’s power.
 
Progressive Christians call it deconstruction. It's the dismantling of doctrinal tenets—where all the beliefs that we ware raised with and had never questioned are systematically pulled apart.

They want us to question our long-held beliefs about the nature of God and the Bible, the one true God of Christianity, and biblical norms regarding gender and sexual orientation.

This thread digs into some of it.

 
the virgin concept in reality is not of about if the
current human ape body is a virgin...

but about our original glorified body in eden
as God made us to become
in the other reality where eden is.

the soul will be restored to her original
... and this foreign type matrix flesh
forgotten...
for it is not created by Him
and this ugly dungeon earth forgotten
for it is not made by Him.

the only point and goal of His Words
to us is to get us out of here.


= back in eden paradise



there is no born again and saved nonsense.

that's a satanic lie and psyop


His souls are promised to Him
and soon we go Home

all of His words are to get us back.
 
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Re: Does The Virgin Birth Matter?

Jesus was on track to become the new covenant's high priest; which is a guy who
serves as a mediator between God and Man. But had Jesus' father been a man,
he would've been unsuitable for the job up in Heaven because the kind of mediator
God prefers up there has to be able to relate to both sides of the aisle.

For example Joseph was an effective mediator between pharaoh and his father
Jacob because Joseph was both an Egyptian and an Hebrew.

So then, in order for Jesus to come into the world on track to become the ultimate
mediator between God and Man, he had to be conceived as a composite of both the
human and the divine. In point of fact there are several verses that attest Jesus is
God's paternal descendant, for example: John 1:14, John 1:18, John 3:16, John
3:18, Heb 11:17, and 1John 4:9.

Plus, as God's paternal descendant, Jesus is 100% sinless

1John 3:9 . . No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in
him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So then there will never come a day when Jesus loses his job due to conduct
unbecoming, viz: Jesus is the new covenant's permanent high priest.

None of the above would be possible had Mary's son been fathered by a man.
_
 
More on “Virgin Birth”

By ‘virgin birth’ Protestants generally mean ‘virginal conception’. Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy believe also in a literal virgin birth, whereby the baby passed out of Mary’s body in such a way as to leave her virginity anatomically unimpaired (virginity in partu, ‘in giving birth’, as well as ante partum, ‘before …’). This belief is found first in writings of Syrian origin from the mid-2nd century, such as the Protevangelium of James. It quickly became a standard part of the doctrine of Mary’s ‘perpetual virginity’, i.e. including also virginity post partum, ‘after giving birth’ to Jesus (so that *‘the brethren of the Lord’ could not have been Mary’s children). The Reformers were virtually unanimous in holding to Mary’s perpetual virginity. This article will follow common practice in using ‘virgin birth’ to denote virginal conception.

The two accounts of the birth of Jesus in Matthew and Luke are clearly independent of one another, and both record that he was born through the direct action of the Holy Spirit, without a human father (Mt. 1:18–25; Lk. 1:34). So the only two gospels that record the circumstances of Jesus’ birth present him as born from a virgin—although greater stress falls on conception by the Spirit than on Mary’s virginity.

Yet the historicity of the virgin birth is doubted or denied by many scholars, who often regard the birth-narratives in Matthew and Luke not as historical record but as some form of imaginative literature, expressing the significance of Jesus’ birth in symbolic, poetic, mythical or midrashic terms. The absence of explicit reference to the virgin birth elsewhere in the NT, especially Mark and Paul, is held to confirm that it was not part of the earliest traditions about Jesus.

However there may well be supporting evidence in the rest of the NT. Although a person may not say directly what he believes, he shows his belief by a turn of phrase. Thus Mark has no birth narrative, since he starts where the preachers in Acts start, namely, with the baptism by John. Yet in 6:3 he alone of the Synoptists quotes objectors as saying, ‘Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary?’ By contrast Mt. 13:55 has ‘the carpenter’s son’, and Lk. 4:22 ‘Joseph’s son’. Identifying a son by his mother was highly unusual, and perhaps disparaging, in a Jewish context.
John also begins Christ’s earthly ministry with the Baptist. Later he indicates that there were rumours about the illegitimacy of Jesus when in 8:41 the Jews declared, ‘We (emphatic pronoun and emphatic position) were not born of fornication’. Less evidential, although accepted by some Christian writers from Tertullian onwards, is the reading in the Verona Latin codex on Jn. 1:13, which has the singular, ‘who was born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, but of God’. (This reading is not attested in any Gk. MS.)

Paul, the companion of Luke, uses language that implies acceptance of the virgin birth. When he speaks of the coming, or birth, of Jesus Christ, he uses the general verb, ginomai, not gennao, which tends to associate the husband (e.g. Rom. 1:3; Phil. 2:7). This is particularly marked in Gal. 4:4, where ‘God sent forth his Son, coming (genomenon) from a woman’. By contrast, in 4:23 Ishmael ‘was born’, gegennētai (from gennao).
There is no evidence that a virgin birth was part of Jewish Messianic expectations. Is. 7:14 is not specific enough to have given rise to such a belief; its use by Matthew presupposes the prior existence of such a conviction about Jesus’ birth. Nor do pagan stories of gods in human form impregnating women provide a credible source for the gospels’ account. Matthew and Luke do not present Mary as impregnated by the Holy Spirit—as though Jesus had a human mother and a divine father—but as conceiving miraculously without male intervention at all.

Theologically it has been argued that the reason given for the title ‘the Son of God’ in Lk. 1:35 cannot be reconciled with the idea of the eternal Son of God of the epistles. This argument assumes that Mary and Joseph would have been given a full theological statement. The two records give the contents of what they were told, namely, that Mary was to be the mother of the promised Messiah, the Son of God and ‘God with us’. The fact that Matthew and Luke do not here reflect later theology is a further argument for the authenticity of their records.

Theologically it is also commonly alleged that someone born of only one parent could not truly be said to share our real humanity. This objection misses the significance of a proper concentration on conception. From that point onwards, there are no grounds for seeing Jesus’ birth as other than wholly normal. (The objection also sounds increasingly weak in the light of modern medical techniques to facilitate child-bearing.)
A general prejudice against the miraculous in general and the incarnation in particular, often animates denial of the virgin birth. Yet it is wonderfully congruent with the much more fundamental truth of the incarnation itself. To hold to the latter as Christian faith has traditionally believed in it, while rejecting the former, is rather like straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel. Although theologians have given different interpretations of Jesus’ birth from a virgin, it at least attests that the entry of God’s Son fully into human life was a gift of divine initiative, a new beginning independent of normal male action. The start of the new creation is God’s fiat, grounded in his grace alone.


D. F. Wright and .J. S. Wright, “Virgin Birth,” in New Bible Dictionary
 
Some progressive Christians would have us believe that it wouldn’t be a big deal if we discovered “Jesus had an earthly father named Larry.”

The Son of God was not born with an "Adamic (sin) nature"..
So, if He had been born of an earthly father, then He would not have been free from original sin.

MARY, was not "free from original sin" unless she was born of a Virgin......and according to her earthly parents, who produced her, she was not virgin born.
Mary had to trust in Christ, to be forgiven, her SIN........just like you.........and just like me.
 
Progressive Christians call it deconstruction. It's the dismantling of doctrinal tenets—where all the beliefs that we ware raised with and had never questioned are systematically pulled apart.

They want us to question our long-held beliefs about the nature of God and the Bible, the one true God of Christianity, and biblical norms regarding gender and sexual orientation.

This thread digs into some of it.

and the sheep dont heed a word one outta a deconstrutionsist mouth .
Folks beleive as they believe
but sheep beleive THE TRUTH .
 
and the sheep dont heed a word one outta a deconstrutionsist mouth .
Folks beleive as they believe
but sheep beleive THE TRUTH .
Hopefully they the stay in the word. The whole armor of God is key also

Putting on the armor is also becoming clothed with Christ. Do you realize that every part of the armor corresponds to an attribute of Jesus?

When we put on the helmet of salvation, we realize that Jesus’ very name means “God is my salvation.”

The breastplate of righteousness reminds us that Jesus has become our righteousness.

The fact that Jesus is the truth is hammered home as we put on the belt of truth.

The Prince of Peace Himself reminds us to fasten to our feet the readiness of the gospel of peace.

As we take up the shield of faith, we remember the Scriptures that speak of Him as the shield that goes before us.

Wielding the sword of the Lord, God’s Word becomes a natural, daily activity for those who follow the living Word of God.
 
Hopefully they the stay in the word. The whole armor of God is key also

Putting on the armor is also becoming clothed with Christ. Do you realize that every part of the armor corresponds to an attribute of Jesus?

When we put on the helmet of salvation, we realize that Jesus’ very name means “God is my salvation.”

The breastplate of righteousness reminds us that Jesus has become our righteousness.

The fact that Jesus is the truth is hammered home as we put on the belt of truth.

The Prince of Peace Himself reminds us to fasten to our feet the readiness of the gospel of peace.

As we take up the shield of faith, we remember the Scriptures that speak of Him as the shield that goes before us.

Wielding the sword of the Lord, God’s Word becomes a natural, daily activity for those who follow the living Word of God.
yet many follow another jesus and another gospel .
So WHEN UNBELIEF AND SIN IS HONORED and done so in the name of a broad path love
This sheep dont heed and wont sit at that table of co exist interfaith sin accepting fake love that is not oF GOD but is of the world .
JESUS IS THE TRUTH . you well said that . YOU well said that .
YET the problem is many seem not to love HIS WORDS and the words of TRUTH
that get in the way of what they love most . SIN and UNBELIEF . A love has come to town
that honors REBELLION TO GOD and TO HIS CHRIST and yet many sure seems to love that kinda of love .
Yet LOVE REJOICES ONLY , ONLY IN TRUTH . not in lies , not in sin , not in unbelief .
very broad love road many sure seem to love these days . JUST a friendly and general reminder to us all .
 
Hopefully they the stay in the word. The whole armor of God is key also

Putting on the armor is also becoming clothed with Christ. Do you realize that every part of the armor corresponds to an attribute of Jesus?

When we put on the helmet of salvation, we realize that Jesus’ very name means “God is my salvation.”

The breastplate of righteousness reminds us that Jesus has become our righteousness.

The fact that Jesus is the truth is hammered home as we put on the belt of truth.

The Prince of Peace Himself reminds us to fasten to our feet the readiness of the gospel of peace.

As we take up the shield of faith, we remember the Scriptures that speak of Him as the shield that goes before us.

Wielding the sword of the Lord, God’s Word becomes a natural, daily activity for those who follow the living Word of God.
a deconstructionist of any flavor does the work of the dark one . To come and to plant DOUBT
in the HOLY SCRIPS and to get men to trust in the so callled wise words of men . THIS SHEEP heeds NOT ONE WORD
outta the lips of such a creature but rather shall expose them .
 
a deconstructionist of any flavor does the work of the dark one . To come and to plant DOUBT
in the HOLY SCRIPS and to get men to trust in the so callled wise words of men . THIS SHEEP heeds NOT ONE WORD
outta the lips of such a creature but rather shall expose them .
Not this sheep either. Only true sheep follow His leadership: “After he has gathered his own flock, he walks ahead of them, and they follow him because they know his voice” John 10:4

Jesus said, “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me” John 10:27
 
The Son of God was not born with an "Adamic (sin) nature"..
So, if He had been born of an earthly father, then He would not have been free from original sin.
This idea proves that GOD creates the rest of us as sinners by having us to be created in Adam as sinful, ie, liable to death. Since this idea discredits completely the idea of the HOLINESS of GOD,(GOD can do no evil!) I find I must reject it as a fairly obvious blasphemy.

Only by a free will choice to rebel against GOD can one become a sinner and since Christ never rebelled against HIS own nature, then He obviously was not in danger of becoming a sinner by any means, by birth as a human or otherwise.
 
This idea proves that GOD creates the rest of us as sinners by having us to be created in Adam as sinful, ie, liable to death. Since this idea discredits completely the idea of the HOLINESS of GOD,(GOD can do no evil!) I find I must reject it as a fairly obvious blasphemy.

Only by a free will choice to rebel against GOD can one become a sinner and since Christ never rebelled against HIS own nature, then He obviously was not in danger of becoming a sinner by any means, by birth as a human or otherwise.
Yes GOD sure did create man upright
as HE created all things good .
We can see even the example written in scrips
Even lucifer had been created good and given great gifts .
But free will is there .
For GOD to desire to have premeinence and to be FIRST above all
IS GOOD .
but for the created to desire this , IS SIN .
God created man upright and good
but tis men that sought out evil . A third of heaven fell , but two thirds did not .
Man did not have to eat from the tree , but once he did death came upon all
and all have sinned . GOD is not to blame , the fault lies on the created not Creator .
 
Yes GOD sure did create man upright
as HE created all things good .
We can see even the example written in scrips
Even lucifer had been created good and given great gifts .
But free will is there .
For GOD to desire to have premeinence and to be FIRST above all
IS GOOD .
but for the created to desire this , IS SIN .
God created man upright and good
but tis men that sought out evil . A third of heaven fell , but two thirds did not .
Man did not have to eat from the tree , but once he did death came upon all
and all have sinned . GOD is not to blame , the fault lies on the created not Creator .
@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
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the scroll is corrupt. the prince of peace is not God, not Christ...
and the virgin birth concept's a corruption.

There is no peace says God in Isaiah..., in the OT, of which EVERY WORD
when understood properly, in the right context, is TRUE right now..
and VALID right now. Every word God Speaks is valid Forever.
This earth and sky will be destroyed says God in prophets
for it IS NOT His! God would NOT destroy His own Reality!
But he would destroy all that is not of Him and not His.

the problem is that the scroll, what was written down by
esau, has been altered, rearranged, omitted and added.

Prime examples? Septuagint and KJV.. from which
most TRADITION arose.
And Tradition is of course what ALSO
caused the israelites to IGNORE the prophets
just like they are ignored today,
and to instead follow the esaus, the judaizing rabbis
 
40% at least of the prophets and apostles
were murdered..

just as they would be today..
by the same selfproud ones calling
themselves saved, elect,
(if they could do tit!)
but they murder in other haughty forms.

surprise. He NEVER knew those ones..
and does not know!
 
I feel murdered every time i speak
in these types of forums..
for they do not CARE about God
only about the own selfproud opinions.
 
long ago a bit more than a decade ago the armor of god 'stuff' tricked me into it... so glad I gave that up and now God protects me instead.
 
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