Does God know everything?

[makesends]

Ridiculous nonsense. Stick around and support your claim.

It's the difference between fabrication and manufacturing.

God creates the substance. We fabricate from that substance. God is not culpable nor can you attribute intent to God based upon God creating substance.

I use this example often. " you will not be able to undo even that simple line of logic"

We don't blame the gun fabricator when the criminal uses something dangerous to kill someone. You blame the killer.

Are you really going to say that God intend "fire" to cripple men trapped in a fire?

What is ridiculous about it? Did God cause what follows his causation? No, I didn't say cause directly. I only said cause. He does use means.

Logically, whatever comes of what God did, was caused by God. And if he knew of it before he did it, then he intended to cause it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Of course free will does not empower. And yes, we are constantly trying to be our own boss.

Calvinism insists that freewill is power. You don't know Calvinism.

I don't know the times in my life that I've had this discuss to only have the Calvinist insist that a freewill choice of faith robs God of power in Salvation.

It is a ridiculous argument made by the Calvinist.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What is ridiculous about it? Did God cause what follows his causation? No, I didn't say cause directly. I only said cause. He does use means.

What is fabrication but means? Noome lives in a fantasy world where Heaters just appear somewhere without someone fabricating them. God made the substance. Men do with it as they please. If you chose not to build a fire when it is freezing outside. Expect to die from YOUR foolishness. Yet, somehow man thinks that God intend for that person to die.

Logically, whatever comes of what God did, was caused by God. And if he knew of it before he did it, then he intended to cause it.

I know that you're going to say something rather silly in response to me. I know you are. You just did. Do I have the responsibility to stop you? Should I stop you?

It amazes me how a Calvinist insists that sin had marred mankind and you don't even realize that God has let you do as you please. He is not guiding nor causing all your choices.

 

[TedT]

you for some reason bring a strawman into the argument, that God did not create anyone evil. Who is saying that he did?

Everyone who believes humans inherit some kind of sinful stigma from Adam that makes them damned from the moment of their creation in the womb...though such believers tend to handle the cognitive dissonance caused by this abominable doctrine by a mental sleight of mind called doublethink in which they hold contrary ideas to both be true at the same time in the same way...
- We are created in the womb at conception.
- We are sinners from conception due to Adam.
but
- GOD does not create us as sinners.

 

[TedT]

As for Pre-conception Existence Theology: You're going to have to demonstrate the validity of it to continue down that argument.

Oh that's simple...if the level of proof necessary is the same level of proof offered by every other Church, denomination, preacher and sect of Christianity, that is, that it is an interpretation of the scriptures that is the standard every other dogmatic theology uses to prove their pov.

While I have collected over 3 dozen verses that I think support my interpretation of reality, (more than most doctrines enjoy, eh?), I do not offer these verses as proof of my suggestions any more than any verse proves any theological doctrine to the point of shutting down all alternatives.

I ask only that they be read, holding sceptical criticism in abeyance for a bit, to see if the words can in fact be interpreted to support my contentions. That is, though it might not be the true interpretation, I claim that they CAN in fact be read my way without any tricks or damage to the language…

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do NOT SEE. Berean Standard Bible
Repudiating my suggestions of interpretation due to past decisions to accept your personal alternative interpretation without recourse to the actual words is mere eisegetics. You have no more proof that your particular interpretation is any truer than any other because you believe by faith, the same as everyone - a faith without proof.

 

[TedT]

Meanwhile, your #2 above, "all of possibility; that is every possible permutation of the nature of the future was known to HIM." —if every possibility was known to him, but he created anyway, that from which every possibility was drawn, for better or for worse, then he did so by intention.

How very sophisticated...

 

[TedT]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Of course free will does not empower. And yes, we are constantly trying to be our own boss.

Rather we are constantly trying to fulfill our sinful desires which enslave our will to evil:
James 1:13-15 God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

 

[makesends]

What is fabrication but means? Noome lives in a fantasy world where Heaters just appear somewhere without someone fabricating them. God made the substance. Men do with it as they please. If you chose not to build a fire when it is freezing outside. Expect to die from YOUR foolishness. Yet, somehow man thinks that God intend for that person to die.

What in the world are you going on about?

Strawman!

Of course men do with the substance God made as men please. Who says otherwise? The fact that men do as they please is also by God's doing.

I know that you're going to say something rather silly in response to me. I know you are. You just did. Do I have the responsibility to stop you? Should I stop you?

It amazes me how a Calvinist insists that sin had marred mankind and you don't even realize that God has let you do as you please. He is not guiding nor causing all your choices.

Strawman!

PLEASE. Show me where I don't realize that God has let me do as I please. I've been insisting for years that is what the Bible and I both say! Calvinism also says that man does as man pleases, just as God ordained man to do, and that, in every particular detail! Where do I say otherwise???

 

[makesends]

Everyone who believes humans inherit some kind of sinful stigma from Adam that makes them damned from the moment of their creation in the womb...though such believers tend to handle the cognitive dissonance caused by this abominable doctrine by a mental sleight of mind called doublethink in which they hold contrary ideas to both be true at the same time in the same way...
- We are created in the womb at conception.
- We are sinners from conception due to Adam.
but
- GOD does not create us as sinners.

You have not shown anybody's reasoning or line of argument that says God created us as sinners, nor created us evil, unless somehow by the unproven assumption that we are created at conception. SHOW it!

 

[makesends]

Oh that's simple...if the level of proof necessary is the same level of proof offered by every other Church, denomination, preacher and sect of Christianity, that is, that it is an interpretation of the scriptures that is the standard every other dogmatic theology uses to prove their pov.

While I have collected over 3 dozen verses that I think support my interpretation of reality, (more than most doctrines enjoy, eh?), I do not offer these verses as proof of my suggestions any more than any verse proves any theological doctrine to the point of shutting down all alternatives.

I ask only that they be read, holding sceptical criticism in abeyance for a bit, to see if the words can in fact be interpreted to support my contentions. That is, though it might not be the true interpretation, I claim that they CAN in fact be read my way without any tricks or damage to the language…

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do NOT SEE. Berean Standard Bible
Repudiating my suggestions of interpretation due to past decisions to accept your personal alternative interpretation without recourse to the actual words is mere eisegetics. You have no more proof that your particular interpretation is any truer than any other because you believe by faith, the same as everyone - a faith without proof.

This sounds like playground noise. "I know I am and so are you!" "I'm gonna take my ball and go home!" "Opinions are as common as..."

The fact that everyone has an opinion doesn't mean they are equal. If you have something to show, show it. Saying you do proves nothing.

 

[makesends]

How very sophisticated...

How very ....non-responsive

 

[makesends]

Rather we are constantly trying to fulfill our sinful desires which enslave our will to evil:
James 1:13-15 God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

All true. How does this undo what I support?

 

[praise_yeshua]

What in the world are you going on about?

Strawman!

What in the world are you doing? You ask me what I'm talking about then call it a "strawman"...

Which is it?

Of course men do with the substance God made as men please. Who says otherwise? The fact that men do as they please is also by God's doing.

Strawman!

No. "Men doing as they please" equals exactly what the words mean. "Men doing as they please" does not = God causing what man pleases. That is ridiculous equation.

PLEASE. Show me where I don't realize that God has let me do as I please.

Simple. You're appealing to God's cause. You ignored my explanation earlier relative to blaming the gun manufacturer for what the criminal does.

You will continue to ignore it because it is perfect example of your hypocrisy. You make things that impact others. You accept no responsibility personally for your OWN actions. Calvin like yourself have been using twisted childish logic for centuries.

I've been insisting for years that is what the Bible and I both say! Calvinism also says that man does as man pleases, just as God ordained man to do, and that, in every particular detail! Where do I say otherwise???

In your own actions in creating things that impact others. If you built a gun and sold it to a individual that murdered someone you don't care about, you would have no sense of obligation or causal impact in the making of the gun. ZERO....

However, you certainly don't mind blaming God for everything that exists. God has never needed a gun. God didn't make the gun. Man did. God didn't fabricate the automobile that kills 1.3 million people every year.

You believe that God ordained every single death. It is horrible belief you've fabricated. You live in a little world where you're always doing what God ordained you to do....

 

[makesends]

praise_yeshua said:
"What is fabrication but means? Noome lives in a fantasy world where Heaters just appear somewhere without someone fabricating them. God made the substance. Men do with it as they please. If you chose not to build a fire when it is freezing outside. Expect to die from YOUR foolishness. Yet, somehow man thinks that God intend for that person to die."

makesends said:
"What in the world are you going on about?

Strawman!"

What in the world are you doing? You ask me what I'm talking about then call it a "strawman"...

Which is it?

Sorry. I should've been more clear. How's this?
"If I can make any sense out of your rant, you are arguing against a strawman."

No. "Men doing as they please" equals exactly what the words mean. "Men doing as they please" does not = God causing what man pleases. That is ridiculous equation.

I didn't say they are equal. I'm saying that man's decision is a result of, and subsequent to, God's decision.

Simple. You're appealing to God's cause. You ignored my explanation earlier relative to blaming the gun manufacturer for what the criminal does.

The gun metaphor was not apt to the discussion.

You will continue to ignore it because it is perfect example of your hypocrisy. You make things that impact others. You accept no responsibility personally for your OWN actions. Calvin like yourself have been using twisted childish logic for centuries.

Your kind words are not unappreciated. By the way, you probably know more about Calvin than I do. I've never studied his works. I did not learn from him, nor from any of his disciples. I learned from scripture.

In your own actions in creating things that impact others. If you built a gun and sold it to a individual that murdered someone you don't care about, you would have no sense of obligation or causal impact in the making of the gun. ZERO....

However, you certainly don't mind blaming God for everything that exists. God has never needed a gun. God didn't make the gun. Man did. God didn't fabricate the automobile that kills 1.3 million people every year.

I don't blame God for anything. I credit him for everything. It is by use of all that comes to pass —the good and the bad— that God brings about the completion of his plan. And it is the only way that the exact result he is after will happen.

You believe that God ordained every single death. It is horrible belief you've fabricated. You live in a little world where you're always doing what God ordained you to do....

Ha! If you take the deaths that you too would agree that he ordained, you've already blown your little notion apart.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Isaiah 57: 1 The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.
2 Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Sorry. I should've been more clear. How's this?
"If I can make any sense out of your rant, you are arguing against a strawman."

"Strawman" without any context to your determination isn't an answer. Surely with your vast experience with "debate"... you already know this.

The gun metaphor was not apt to the discussion.

It is not a metaphor. It was an analogy. The fact you don't understand the difference witnesses to your inexperience and oversimplification of complex thought.

Your kind words are not unappreciated. By the way, you probably know more about Calvin than I do. I've never studied his works. I did not learn from him, nor from any of his disciples. I learned from scripture.

I did learn what Calvin believed. You should do the same. I learned through studying his position where he is wrong and where he is right. Knowledge is important. I have also learned from the Scriptures.

I apologize for being overly aggressive with you. I shouldn't. I've gotten accustomed with dealing with arrogant people lately. No offense. I generally have a hard time getting anyone to actually "take the journey" with me in understanding important things. Much like your forum friend here that likes your comments. I've interacted with him for many years. We generally agree on many things but I always make an enemy out of him when it comes this subject.

I don't blame God for anything. I credit him for everything. It is by use of all that comes to pass —the good and the bad— that God brings about the completion of his plan. And it is the only way that the exact result he is after will happen.

So don't think that God could just say "Let there be....... (fill in the blank) and it would instantly happen?

I've actually mediated on these circumstances for many many years. It has caused me more problems with men than I sometimes care to admit. I've studied and studied and studied for a very long time. Theology is my "coping" mechanism. When I get angry or I get sad or when I extraordinarily happy in the goodness of God.... I meditate and study Theology. It "balances" me. I believe that Paul did the same thing when he was in prison. Not saying I'm like him. I don't claim any power over anything. I'm just a man.

If God can just say "Let it be......" and it is... Then you need to start thinking about the longsuffering of God. The patience God has toward us. In all sincerity. I don't believe you have. You've simply accepted the convenient answer "God's good pleasure"....... There is more there than the excuse of "God's good pleasure".

If you're married... let me use an analogy here. Sometimes we don't understand our "significant other"..... I suggest that you don't take the attitude that you have with God. You know... "She is just that way"...... You'll never understand her if you don't put in the effort to know her.

Ha! If you take the deaths that you too would agree that he ordained, you've already blown your little notion apart.

No. I don't believe that God has set a "date" for my death. Like I have repeatedly told you. God gave us (mankind) a world to rule. We are rulers of this world. God intervenes at specific moments to limit the actions of men. However, men do mostly as they please. God defines rules and sets limits. We operate within this limits of our own volition.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Memorize these words. Notice the limits. The boundaries.

At one time, the ocean was a boundary. By studying marine animals we overcame the oceans. At one time the sky was a boundary. By studying we have overcome the sky. At one time space was a boundary. By studying fire, propulsion and etc... we are conquering space. We are designed to learn. Designed to overcome obstacles.

However, there are obstacles we ignore and neglect. One of those "obstacles" is God. I suggest you don't accept "God's good pleasure" as being an answer.

I started learning this lesson decades ago.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Isaiah 57: 1 The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.
2 Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.

Isa 57:1 See how the just man has perished, and no one lays it to heart: and righteous men are taken away, and no one considers: for the righteous has been removed out of the way of injustice.
Isa 57:2 His burial shall be in peace: he has been removed out of the way.

 

[makesends]

"Strawman" without any context to your determination isn't an answer. Surely with your vast experience with "debate"... you already know this.



It is not a metaphor. It was an analogy. The fact you don't understand the difference witnesses to your inexperience and oversimplification of complex thought.



I did learn what Calvin believed. You should do the same. I learned through studying his position where he is wrong and where he is right. Knowledge is important. I have also learned from the Scriptures.

I apologize for being overly aggressive with you. I shouldn't. I've gotten accustomed with dealing with arrogant people lately. No offense. I generally have a hard time getting anyone to actually "take the journey" with me in understanding important things. Much like your forum friend here that likes your comments. I've interacted with him for many years. We generally agree on many things but I always make an enemy out of him when it comes this subject.



So don't think that God could just say "Let there be....... (fill in the blank) and it would instantly happen?

I've actually mediated on these circumstances for many many years. It has caused me more problems with men than I sometimes care to admit. I've studied and studied and studied for a very long time. Theology is my "coping" mechanism. When I get angry or I get sad or when I extraordinarily happy in the goodness of God.... I meditate and study Theology. It "balances" me. I believe that Paul did the same thing when he was in prison. Not saying I'm like him. I don't claim any power over anything. I'm just a man.

If God can just say "Let it be......" and it is... Then you need to start thinking about the longsuffering of God. The patience God has toward us. In all sincerity. I don't believe you have. You've simply accepted the convenient answer "God's good pleasure"....... There is more there than the excuse of "God's good pleasure".

If you're married... let me use an analogy here. Sometimes we don't understand our "significant other"..... I suggest that you don't take the attitude that you have with God. You know... "She is just that way"...... You'll never understand her if you don't put in the effort to know her.



No. I don't believe that God has set a "date" for my death. Like I have repeatedly told you. God gave us (mankind) a world to rule. We are rulers of this world. God intervenes at specific moments to limit the actions of men. However, men do mostly as they please. God defines rules and sets limits. We operate within this limits of our own volition.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Memorize these words. Notice the limits. The boundaries.

At one time, the ocean was a boundary. By studying marine animals we overcame the oceans. At one time the sky was a boundary. By studying we have overcome the sky. At one time space was a boundary. By studying fire, propulsion and etc... we are conquering space. We are designed to learn. Designed to overcome obstacles.

However, there are obstacles we ignore and neglect. One of those "obstacles" is God. I suggest you don't accept "God's good pleasure" as being an answer.

I started learning this lesson decades ago.

I'm 68 years old. Been a believer from before I can remember. Grew up in basically Arminian circumstances. I've never formally studied logic but I can follow logical arguments and see through what is not. An argument can be logical throughout except the beginning. ALL of our arguments are tainted this way. Also arguments can be tainted throughout with certain assumptions throughout. Yours do both. So sure of your beliefs you are, that you don't know how to get the truth out from within the falsehood of it. Mine do both, too, no doubt. I have purposely not arranged my life around debate methods and how to convince people I'm right. My self-skepticism has helped me stand clear of many a convincing argument to be able to see through it.

I'm not proud of how I became what many mistake for Calvinist, but I'm glad of it. I wouldn't wish what I've been through on anyone, but I thank God for it. HE did it to me, just as he did to Israel, and yes, I did it to myself. Like I said, I didn't learn it from Calvinists, nor the Reformed. It is just what finally made sense in what God has done for me, to me.

You assume, in the post I'm responding to, many things concerning me. I'm bilingual, so I don't just accept a phrase like God's good pleasure. I know the difference between old English and current English. I can study Greek. But my purpose is to show people they are not quite right, and to provide alternative thoughts that do match what Scripture says. There are things I am sure are true, but I don't understand them very well. But, I've noticed, neither does anyone else. The dogmatic noises people make, I can make too. Sometimes that is all they will hear.

The biggest problem in the end, in the arguing I have seen online, is presumption and misunderstanding. Not inexperience nor lack of good reason nor poor debate methods nor even logical fallacies. Most threads fall apart over disagreement as to the meaning of words. By the time any headway is made, everyone is tired and disgusted.

But the fastest I drop out is when not only is an opponent arrogant, condescending and 'lording it over' others and presumptive, but when he pretends he gets his information from God, directly from the Bible, by the Holy Spirit, as though he is a prophet or something, or various other similar things. Then when his arguments come in birdshot fashion, pointed, he thinks, in my direction, he can't accept that it was just noise.

This is a long enough read. I realize it doesn't answer your points. If I feel inspired I will answer what you said instead of giving these general thoughts concerning debate and belief.

 

[civic]

I'm 68 years old. Been a believer from before I can remember. Grew up in basically Arminian circumstances. I've never formally studied logic but I can follow logical arguments and see through what is not. An argument can be logical throughout except the beginning. ALL of our arguments are tainted this way. Also arguments can be tainted throughout with certain assumptions throughout. Yours do both. So sure of your beliefs you are, that you don't know how to get the truth out from within the falsehood of it. Mine do both, too, no doubt. I have purposely not arranged my life around debate methods and how to convince people I'm right. My self-skepticism has helped me stand clear of many a convincing argument to be able to see through it.

I'm not proud of how I became what many mistake for Calvinist, but I'm glad of it. I wouldn't wish what I've been through on anyone, but I thank God for it. HE did it to me, just as he did to Israel, and yes, I did it to myself. Like I said, I didn't learn it from Calvinists, nor the Reformed. It is just what finally made sense in what God has done for me, to me.

You assume, in the post I'm responding to, many things concerning me. I'm bilingual, so I don't just accept a phrase like God's good pleasure. I know the difference between old English and current English. I can study Greek. But my purpose is to show people they are not quite right, and to provide alternative thoughts that do match what Scripture says. There are things I am sure are true, but I don't understand them very well. But, I've noticed, neither does anyone else. The dogmatic noises people make, I can make too. Sometimes that is all they will hear.

The biggest problem in the end, in the arguing I have seen online, is presumption and misunderstanding. Not inexperience nor lack of good reason nor poor debate methods nor even logical fallacies. Most threads fall apart over disagreement as to the meaning of words. By the time any headway is made, everyone is tired and disgusted.

But the fastest I drop out is when not only is an opponent arrogant, condescending and 'lording it over' others and presumptive, but when he pretends he gets his information from God, directly from the Bible, by the Holy Spirit, as though he is a prophet or something, or various other similar things. Then when his arguments come in birdshot fashion, pointed, he thinks, in my direction, he can't accept that it was just noise.

This is a long enough read. I realize it doesn't answer your points. If I feel inspired I will answer what you said instead of giving these general thoughts concerning debate and belief.

This medium is very difficult to communicate and many times takes many interactions between members to understand. I just had this conversation this morning over the phone with our @Administrator . I have a difficult time with my wife and family sometimes who can take a text message the wrong way when how they understood it was not my intention at all.

But I commend you for your honesty and transparency in your post. If more of us non Calvinists and Calvinists took this approach myself included these would and could be much more fruitful discussions where iron sharpens iron could really be the result even though we disagree on some things.

Once again thanks for this post, it made my day

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm 68 years old. Been a believer from before I can remember. Grew up in basically Arminian circumstances. I've never formally studied logic but I can follow logical arguments and see through what is not. An argument can be logical throughout except the beginning. ALL of our arguments are tainted this way. Also arguments can be tainted throughout with certain assumptions throughout. Yours do both. So sure of your beliefs you are, that you don't know how to get the truth out from within the falsehood of it. Mine do both, too, no doubt. I have purposely not arranged my life around debate methods and how to convince people I'm right. My self-skepticism has helped me stand clear of many a convincing argument to be able to see through it.

I'm not proud of how I became what many mistake for Calvinist, but I'm glad of it. I wouldn't wish what I've been through on anyone, but I thank God for it. HE did it to me, just as he did to Israel, and yes, I did it to myself. Like I said, I didn't learn it from Calvinists, nor the Reformed. It is just what finally made sense in what God has done for me, to me.

You assume, in the post I'm responding to, many things concerning me. I'm bilingual, so I don't just accept a phrase like God's good pleasure. I know the difference between old English and current English. I can study Greek. But my purpose is to show people they are not quite right, and to provide alternative thoughts that do match what Scripture says. There are things I am sure are true, but I don't understand them very well. But, I've noticed, neither does anyone else. The dogmatic noises people make, I can make too. Sometimes that is all they will hear.

The biggest problem in the end, in the arguing I have seen online, is presumption and misunderstanding. Not inexperience nor lack of good reason nor poor debate methods nor even logical fallacies. Most threads fall apart over disagreement as to the meaning of words. By the time any headway is made, everyone is tired and disgusted.

But the fastest I drop out is when not only is an opponent arrogant, condescending and 'lording it over' others and presumptive, but when he pretends he gets his information from God, directly from the Bible, by the Holy Spirit, as though he is a prophet or something, or various other similar things. Then when his arguments come in birdshot fashion, pointed, he thinks, in my direction, he can't accept that it was just noise.

This is a long enough read. I realize it doesn't answer your points. If I feel inspired I will answer what you said instead of giving these general thoughts concerning debate and belief.

I can agree with you much of what you've said. Thank you for the kind response. I can be "petty". I can. I know I can. I believe one of the best qualities of being human is to recognize our own faults.

I argue for my position not only because I believe it to be true, I argue to find out where I'm wrong.

Debate is essential. One man can NOT know it all. A group of good men can't know it all. It is in the company of good men that, together.....we learn from each others.

I look at debate different than most. I believe if you watch how Jesus handled Himself throughout Scripture, you find He most always said something that offended his own disciples. Jesus knew that he offended those He loved.

Luk 7:23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Chastening is not fun....

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

We are chastened by the Truth of words. Words of Truth are Spiritual. I believe they are Intrinsically "LIFE"....

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

I've found that getting angry at times has driven me to know myself and to know God.

You will notice that I don't claim spiritual authority on anything. I don't. I gave up those empty arguments a long time ago. I very seldom even argue the details of another person's theology. Even though I have spent extensive time knowing Calvin's words. I don't care to follow him.

We agree on many things. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me! I appreciate it.