Doctrine of Unconditional Election
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Doug Brents
Active Member
One reason you don't: It isn't Biblical.
brightfame52
Active Member
So you didn't learn anything ?
Doug Brents
Active Member
I am not going to waste my time watching something I know is teaching falsehood just so I can refute it for you.
It has been proven in Scripture that salvation (election) is 1000% conditional upon faith. So we don't "need" something that has been disproved.
brightfame52
Active Member
oh okay, you have the opportunity to listen to it at anytime if the Lord wills
brightfame52
Active Member
How can anyone have met any condition prior to their creation? The point in choosing a people for Himself before the foundation of the world is to show that God’s choosing was in no way conditioned on what those people did, or who they were. Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Rom 9:11
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Rom 9:11
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
brightfame52
Active Member
Christ Spiritual Seed in Union with Him from the foundation of the world Eph 1:4 is the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-7
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes, the elect.
Again, putting unbelievers in union with Christ is absurd.
Ephesians 2:12–13 (NASB 95) — 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes the elect are in union with Christ in unbelief
They are in union with Christ in that condition. They were in election union in Christ b4 the foundation Eph 1:4
They were in union with Christ when Jesus was quickened from the dead Eph 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Say for instance there are elect not yet born , well if they're elect, they're in union with Christ now in the heavenly places
They will be born in this condition Eph 2:2-3
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
synergy
Active Member
Sorry unbelievers are not in Christ
Ephesians 2:12–13 (NASB 95) — 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
unbelievers are separate from being in Christ
Unbelievers are not a new creation those in Christ are
2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
Those with faith are sons of God
Gal 3:26–28 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Believers have no condemnation
Rom 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Your statement
"Yes the elect are in union with Christ in unbelief"
Is a heresy
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Last edited:
synergy
Active Member
Correct. @brightfame52's own words proves that he's a troll with clear intentions to propagate hideous heresies such as the following:
civic
Active Member
Its Hyper Calvinism
civic
Active Member
Modern day calvinism is hyper for the most part.
Phil Johnson, who has done extensive research on this subject very helpfully defines hyper-Calvinists using a five-fold definition. A hyper-Calvinist is one who:
- Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear, OR
- Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner, OR
- Denies that the gospel makes any “offer” of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal), OR
- Denies that there is such a thing as “common grace,” OR
- Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect.
Hyper-Calvinism: A Brief Definition | Tim Challies
The term hyper-Calvinist is often used as a pejorative. Almost any Calvinist who adheres to the doctrines of grace is likely to be considered a hyper-Calvinist by at least someone. Frankly speaking, a hyper-Calvinist can be any Calvinist to a person who doesn't understand Calvinism. So today...
www.challies.com
Yep, his position is hyper orientated.
