Doctrine of eternal punishment

[Pancho Frijoles]

The rationale of my belief goes like this:

1. God wants to save everyone (2 Peter 3:9, among other texts)
2. God is All-Powerful and All-Wise.
3. God respects our free will.
4. God is powerful enough and wise enough to save us without violating our free will. Otherwise, premise 2 and 3 are false.
5. God is constantly trying to save us, without violating our free will. One of his methods is allowing us to suffer the consequences of our decisions (punishment), so that we can realize our condition and come back to his arms.
6. God does not need our cells to be metabolically active (alive) to continue doing what He is already doing.
7. In conclusion, God will keep doing what He is doing, even if our bodies are biologically dead, until His purpose is achieved.

 

[Darby]

Hi Darby

I guess there are several variants on universalism.
I am an universalist, in the sense that I believe God will save, eventually, everyone.
But I believe in punishment, in hell, both in this life and in the afterlife. To me, though, punishment is a manifestation of God's love, and has a corrective purpose. When that purpose has been met, then God saves the person, without violation of his free will, because that's what God has always wanted. When God wants something, He gets it. His purpose can't be frustrated.

Hell is eternal in the very same sense that the life Christ offers is eternal.
Nothing known to man could ever separate us from the love of Christ. No threats, no pleasures, no fears.
By the same token, nothing known to man could ever rescue a man from his degraded condition. No drugs, no wealth, popularity, or pleasures.

There is no escape from hell... from the perspective of the sinner. Not from the perspective of God.
Certainly I am open to discuss this more if you are interested in knowing more the rationale for my position.

I'm definitely not claiming to completely understanding God's ways.

For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 1 Corinthians 13:12

Back in the day they didn't have mirrors like we do today they had a polished piece of metal. So they didn't get a really good picture.

I also understand that God is the potter and were the clay. So he can do whatever he pleases. For all I know they could have a parole board In hell that could put you on parole and let you out for good behavior. But to me personally the bible doesn't seem to teach that.

One thing that bothers me Is when I think of any of my family, my loved ones that I pray for that I have not accepted Christ yet. The thought of them dying before accepting Jesus is heartbreaking.

But I've come to accept that's the way it is. I wish there was some sort of a workaround but I haven't found it yet. There are no second chances. But it is comforting to know that He has mercifully give everyone a first chance.

 

[Darby]

The rationale of my belief goes like this:

1. God wants to save everyone (2 Peter 3:9, among other texts)
2. God is All-Powerful and All-Wise.
3. God respects our free will.
4. God is powerful enough and wise enough to save us without violating our free will. Otherwise, premise 2 and 3 are false.
5. God is constantly trying to save us, without violating our free will. One of his methods is allowing us to suffer the consequences of our decisions (punishment), so that we can realize our condition and come back to his arms.
6. God does not need our cells to be metabolically active (alive) to continue doing what He is already doing.
7. In conclusion, God will keep doing what He is doing, even if our bodies are biologically dead, until His purpose is achieved.

I'll have to think about that one.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

But I've come to accept that's the way it is. I wish there was some sort of a workaround but I haven't found it yet. There are no second chances. But it is comforting to know that He has mercifully give everyone a first chance.

I understand your feelings. My wife considers herself an atheist.

I invite you, though to consider this:
God does not need workarounds nor wants workarounds. People have to accept the Gospel to be saved.
But whatever God is doing with your relatives or my wife to attract them to His love, He will continue doing, until the very last of his sheep is brought home.

Salvation is about the soul, not about the physical body.
The body can be biologically dead, but the soul still is susceptible to understand her condition.

Please consider the story of the rich man and Lazarus.
God (represented by Abraham) made the rich understand why he was in that situation. God made him desire not to be there. God made him think in his loved ones. God made him try to help their loved ones. All of this tell us about what a soul can do under the influence of God.

My dear friend: Certainly, as you have stated, we can't understand well God's ways and methods. All we can do is trust God is love, and He still loves those who are being punished. We can trust that He wants them to repent. He wants them again at home.

Those whom I love, I rebuke and discipline. Therefore be zealous and repent. (Revelation 3:16)

 

[Grace ambassador]

Jesus teaches here that heaven and hell are both real, literal places. Sadly, many preachers shy away from uncomfortable topics such as hell.

Not following Paul, Under Grace, as God commands (Ephesians 5:1; 1 Corinthians 4:16, 11:1;
Philippians3:17 AV) is most likely the cause, eh?

"And as he [ Paul ] reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and​

answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee." (Acts 24:25 AV)​

​

Our focus in on eternal life, not on hell

Is not "part of God's Love" for mankind, especially because of The Cross Of Christ, to focus on both,
"warning about Judgment to come," and then "showing God's ↑ Remedy ↑, The Gospel Of Grace, for sin?:

Numbers of each found in 4 gospels/Acts/Paul's epistles?:

eternal life = 19 times

[ interesting, eh? ] over 3 times More, is:​

judgment = 61 times

Considering Paul our pattern teaches "The Whole Counsel Of God" (Acts 20:27 AV), should not we,
in love, Also do the same?

Amen.

Grace, Peace, Mercy, And Love!

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Not following Paul, Under Grace, as God commands (Ephesians 5:1; 1 Corinthians 4:16, 11:1;
Philippians3:17 AV) is most likely the cause, eh?

"And as he [ Paul ] reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and​

answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee." (Acts 24:25 AV)​

​

Is not "part of God's Love" for mankind, especially because of The Cross Of Christ, to focus on both,
"warning about Judgment to come," and then "showing God's ↑ Remedy ↑, The Gospel Of Grace, for sin?:

Numbers of each found in 4 gospels/Acts/Paul's epistles?:

eternal life = 19 times

[ interesting, eh? ] over 3 times More, is:​

judgment = 61 times

Considering Paul our pattern teaches "The Whole Counsel Of God" (Acts 20:27 AV), should not we,
in love, Also do the same?

Amen.

Grace, Peace, Mercy, And Love!

What I meant is that the minds of those who love God are not focused on the fear of a punishment, but focused on God, as source of all good things that we consider to constitute eternal life.

Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue, and if there is any praise, think on these things. (Philippians 4:8)

There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. Whoever fears is not perfect in love. (1 John 4:18)