Do Catholics Pray to Mary?
- Thread starter Donald
- Start date
Welcome.
Many of us still see John Paul II as the exemplary pope.
He was pope at the time I came into the Catholic Church.
That his history was so intertwined with Fatima, and his explicit support for Fatima ( where I live some of the time, or not far away ) and Kibeho also makes him appealing to me.
Indeed my regret about Francis was that as Archbishop Bergoglio his diocese was favoured by one of the modern forensically demonstrated Eucharistic miracles , indeed he instructed the investigation , approved it , but then he then did so little to promote it ( or tixtla, legnica, sokolka ) given the biggest platform to do so.
Our Lord said “ if you do not believe me, believe in my works” , and he told the disciples of John the Baptist “ tell him the lame walk and the blind see” so demonstration of the supernatural was part of Jesus ‘ mission against incredulity. So I think eucharistic miracles and the miracle of Fatima “ that all might see and believe” were intended. as a public demonstration of the supernatural and the Veracity of catholic doctrine specifically,
But whilst JPII actively supported Fatima, as victim of the third secret , I think Francis let the church down by not actively supporting eucharistic miracles given on his watch. I think the church misuses the doctrine of “ private revelation” since these events reinforce old revelation , of the nature of Eucharist , they are not new revelation of doctrine at all, and certainly not private or intended to be so. The church almost denies the right of the Lord to make such public demonstrations of power.
An interesting anecdote you may not know : the church website of where the Buenos airies miracle took place was hacked and replaced by the same Iranian hackers that took down several prominent US givernment sites! So it seems Islam sees these miracles as far more important target than Francis Did!
JPII was my pope too!
Anyway. Welcome.
Alas expect all the usual anti catholic nonsense here.
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I glad to hear your thoughts on our favorite Pope. And yes, this is the first time I have heard about the Iranian hackers. The history of Fátima is very interesting what with the name coming from a Moorish princess and all. Now I feel like doing another of the medieval crusades.
I have done a two yearlong study on Islam so it's right up my alley. And it may prove useful in understanding the political, cultural, and religious wars waged in today’s society.
As far as anti-Catholic nonsense go, as long as it's done in the way laid out in the rules things should go fine.
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
Catholics, who are generally totally IGNORANT of Biblical teachings, perform all sortd of ridiculous religious activities. "Mariolatry" is the ignorant practice of IGNORING Jesus' instruction about prayer (John 14:13,14) and substituting theior own FALSE TEASHING about invoking their "Mary thing" (who bears no resemblance at all to the REAL Mary, Jesus' mother), OR SELECTED "SAINTS" (both real and imagined) to help arm-twist Jesus and God to do what they want.
Mary’s house at Ephesus is a fascinating story. Do you know it? Revered in equal measure by Moslems and Catholics.
I think the apparitions at Zeitoun were an attempt to bring back harmony.
Even the most ardent atheist has a hard time explaining away zeitoun and Fatima.
One of the most fascinating stories regarding Fatima are the doves at Bombarral that then accompanied the pilgrim virgin wherever she went.
Well worth reading the books!
Johann
Active Member
Actually, not, they are well acquainted with the Scriptures and have seen many of their debates.
J.
Donald
Active Member
LoL, first time I've see you get Riled up up Bob. I'm used to your sarcastic one liners that you are so good at.
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
WHich always are predicated in the ASSUMPTION the "Rome Knows Best", regardless of what the Bible teaches!!!!
Johann
Active Member
Let’s set aside the word “assumption”--you made an unwarranted claim by stating that Catholics are ignorant of biblical teachings, and you haven’t provided any evidence to support it.
I’ve personally watched hundreds of their debates, and biblical ignorance is not something I’ve observed.
Have you actually watched any of their debates yourself?
If not, then you have no leg to stand on, correct?
J.
Donald
Active Member
Anyone can be wrong even Rome. They are pulling lot of things I'm not real happy about nor do I agree with. But that goes for any denomination.
THE TRANSMISSION OF DIVINE REVELATION
God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”: that is, of Christ Jesus. Christ must be
proclaimed to all nations and individuals, so that this revelation
may reach to the ends of the earth: God graciously arranged that the things he had once revealed for the salvation of all peoples should remain in their entirety, throughout the ages, and be transmitted to all generations.
The Apostolic Tradition
“Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach
the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline.”
171
In the apostolic preaching
In keeping with the Lord’s command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways: had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit”;
— in writing “by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing.” continued in apostolic succession
77 “In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them ‘their own position of teaching authority.’” Indeed, “the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special
way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time.”
78 This living transmission, accomplished in the Holy Spirit, is called Tradition, since it is distinct from Sacred Scripture, though
closely connected to it. Through Tradition, “the Church, in her doctrine, life, and worship perpetuates and transmits to every
generation all that she herself is, all that she believes.” “The sayings of the holy Fathers are a witness to the life-giving presence
of this Tradition, showing how its riches are poured out in the practice and life of the Church, in her belief and her prayer.”38
79 The Father’s self-communication made through his Word in the Holy Spirit, remains present and active in the Church: “God,
who spoke in the past, continues to converse with the Spouse of his beloved Son. And the Holy Spirit, through whom the living
voice of the Gospel rings out in the Church—and through her in the world—leads believers to the full truth, and makes the Word of Christ dwell in them in all its richness.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
Johann
Active Member
You're absolutely right here, @Donald--and it's encouraging to see your acknowledgment that anything, including Rome, can be subject to error.
As believers, we are all called to “speak the truth in love” and to strive together “until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God” (Ephesians 4:13).
May we continue to contend earnestly for the faith (Jude 1:3) and fight the good fight with grace and integrity.
God bless.
Johann.
Eleazar
Active Member
I'm not a Catholic so I have no skin in the game. They are free to do their thing. But this if true is a real eye opener. I Have heard this a few times over the last 2 years.
www.newsweek.com
Pope Francis faces growing revolt
The pontiff's softening of church rhetoric on issues like same-sex relationships has inflamed tensions within Catholicism.
www.newsweek.com
Johann
Active Member
Same thing happening in most of denominational churches, so what?I'm not a Catholic so I have no skin in the game. They are free to do their thing. But this if true is a real eye opener. I Have heard this a few times over the last 2 years.
Pope Francis faces growing revolt
The pontiff's softening of church rhetoric on issues like same-sex relationships has inflamed tensions within Catholicism.
J.
DavidTree
Active Member
Do not forget that there is the sin of 'willful ignorance' which God calls "hardness of heart".
Therefore, when a person who is religious is confronted with the Truth they must decide which way to go.
a.) Believe the Truth and be set free from religion.
b.) Respect the Truth but make no immediate decision until they do further research/seeking = Bereans
c.) Reject the Truth by trusting in their religion - in this case with catholics, they are placing their trust in man, not in God.
Roman catholics who have given themselves to the 'mother church' do not respect the Truth because they willingly are ignorant.
Apostle Paul - "If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.
But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant."
SEE the TRUTH or do you trust the 'unholy See'
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Donald
Active Member
Lets hope and pray the new pope, Pope Leo XIV does better. But I'm worried about his stand on the growing crisis in Gaza. He doesn't seem to be siding with Israel.I'm not a Catholic so I have no skin in the game. They are free to do their thing. But this if true is a real eye opener. I Have heard this a few times over the last 2 years.
Pope Francis faces growing revolt
The pontiff's softening of church rhetoric on issues like same-sex relationships has inflamed tensions within Catholicism.
this is a test.
Bible Question:
Where in the Bible does it state that as a nation we had better back the Israeli nation or else we will be destroyed?Bible Answer:
There are two important passages in the Bible where God promises to bless those who support Israel and to curse those who do not. The first one is found in Genesis 12:1-3. In this passage God gives Abraham three promises. He says,........
Where does the Bible say that we should support Israel? — Abrahamic Covenant
In Genesis 12:1-3 God promised Abraham land, a nation, blessing for those who bless Israel, and curse those who curse Israel.
www.neverthirsty.org
DavidTree
Active Member
Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
Eleazar
Active Member
So a lot of things that's what.
The Catholic Church has a huge impact on the world. I think we are in the end times so ya things are tough all over. Black outs and natural disasters, disease.
Among the sign that Jesus foretold would come before the end are wars, news of war, famine, disease, and death (Matthew 24:6-7). There are wars, famines, and disease now, but the troubles that Jesus predicted will come after a false Christianity begins to rise. In the final stage of these troubles, one-quarter of humanity will die (Revelation 6:8). The end will not come until after one-quarter of the world’s population dies.
Jesus Christ Himself talked of a future time so horrendous that no human lives would be spared "unless those days were shortened"
When Jesus taught His followers about the end times, the very first thing He said was:
Many people think Jesus was only warning about people who claim to be Christ. But Jesus was also warning of a more subtle danger. He said that there would be many who come in His name, in the name of Christianity, and who say that Jesus is the Christ.
/|\ But ya so what? Like Alfred E,. Neuman said... What me worry?
Jesus has our back.
Johann
Active Member
@DavidTree
I believe that the existence of over 45,000 denominations worldwide is evidence enough that willful ignorance (cf. 2 Peter 3:5) can be found in some form across the board.
Therefore, let us not pit church against church, or denomination against denomination. As 2 Timothy 2:19 declares, “Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, ‘The Lord knows those who are His,’ and, ‘Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to keep away from wickedness.’”
If I were to take it upon myself to correct every erroneous doctrine I encounter among the various sects and movements, I would be banned.
Yet my aim is not to quarrel but to pursue what Paul commended to Timothy: “Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction” (2 Timothy 4:2).
Let us contend for truth, but do so with humility and reverence, knowing that “we all see through a glass, darkly” (1 Corinthians 13:12) and are called to be “diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace” (Ephesians 4:3).
Just my 2 cents brother.
J.
The problem is rarely what scripture says. It is a dispute over what it means and who has power to resolve it, or even teach it.
Jesus answered that.
The power to bind and loose given to Peter ( and successors) alone and apostles ( and successors) together .
So Rome does know best. It’s good it does. You would not have a New Testament otherwise.
Also The power to preach only by those who are “sent”
That’s why the church ( not scripture) is the pillar of truth.
As for how it works out in practice in the early church read the first fathers who were taught by apostles so knew what Jesus meant by what he said, which they handed down as tradition. So The Eucharist really is the real flesh , but only if presided by a bishop in succession. It isn’t just symbolic, and profaning it is serious, That’s how Jesus stated it, handed down by John to polycarp and ignatius.
The problem with Protestants having no means to resolve doctrine, is they then have endless splits as they disageee on all matters of doctrine, just as reformers all disagreed. It’s why many Protestant ministers and theologians come back to Rome.
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DavidTree
Active Member
Me too!
Me too!
In all my posts , i never pit church/denomination against denomination.
In all my posts i only present the Word of Truth = the Holy Scriptures
The Holy Scriptures are Truth = "Thy word is truth"
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth = anyone who opposes the Holy Scriptures are opposing the Holy Spirit.
Thus we are instructed = "do not grieve the Holy Spirit"
"Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."
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"Seeing thru a glass dimly" does not give us an excuse to willfully be ignorant of the Truth.
Thus the clear warning from the Apostle Paul:
"If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.
SEE that word "acknowledge"
When a catholic/protestant priest, cardinal, bishop or pope reject the commandments of the Lord they willfully sin against the Lord by exaulting themselves above Christ and the Apostles.
Even GREATER is the EVIL of replacing the commandments of the LORD with man-made religion which can NEVER save a soul from hell.
The Roman Catholic hierarchy is under the same Judgment as the Jewish people who reject their Messiah.
"seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God."
