Do Catholics Pray to Mary?

[mikepec]

@mikepec

Apostle Peter says there is only One True Church that is made by God using Born-Again Blood Washed Saints.

Apostle Paul confirms the Apostle Peter on the Church: 1 Corinthians chapter 3
v9 - For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building

Apostles Peter and Paul confirm that only the Lord Jesus Christ is the ROCK upon which the Church is built.
v11 - For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

The There is only One Foundation that the Living Stones Church of the Living God is built upon = Lord Jesus Christ
v16 - Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
v17 - If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.
For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

And by what authority does David tree even have an opinion on scripture?
I ask you again.


Those who were “ sent” were given that authority as Peter alone and apostles jointly given the power to bind and loose, wielded in council, they chose scripture , you have no New Testament without them , and those who were taught by apostles , handed down the true faith tell you what that means. Thats why the church is the pillar of truth.
I follow the true church and those who were sent

Just say thank you to them for scripture and creed. You would not have either without the true church.

Meanwhile You twist at gnats to avoid the obvious meanings of scripture, even more obvious when you see where that took place, Peter is the rock. Do you even know where it took place?. It’s what the word means, you are neither grammatically ( your assertion makes grammatical nonsense) nor historically nor scripturally correct . The church always did have a steward on earth, someone appointed by God . Have you never read the Old Testament? Of Elijah and Moses and Abraham and the rest .

Read the early fathers , if you want to discover the true church, and what scripture meant to those , who unlikeyou ,were given the job of handing down the faith . That is why the church is The pillar of truth.
We are born again by the true meaning.

You have fixed nothing , except your own man made traditon , and false method of interpreting doctrine which led to a myriad of mutually exclusive doctrines on every aspect of faith . Your method leads nowhere except division. It is a failure, when You let your own intellect and arrogance , your idol, deceive you. So sad

You demean Jesus by believing him incapable of keeping his church on track from the first, when he clearly stated thr gospel would be preached to the end of time which includes the first Millenium, and the gates of hell would not prevail against his church. Where all of us base our faith, a doctrine essentially unchanged for 2000 years.

Reformers , an army of David trees , change doctrine every week and split every time they cannot agree . They rely on their idol, their intellect and arrogance, to draw others away from the true church.

So Read early fathers discover the true church.

Till then post on a “ David tree cult “ page, not on catholicism you clearly know nothing about.

 

[mikepec]

Fixed for you = The entire difference between Catholics and Blood Washed Saints of all description is a matter of authority, including to hand the faith down,

#1a - A catholic believes he/she is going to Heaven via the religious instructions given by the roman catholic church.

#1b - A Blood Washed Saint KNOWS that they are going to Heaven purely from the Sacrificial Blood of Christ.

#2a - A catholic places their trust in man-made teachings and religious observances which cannot save a soul from hell.

#2b - A Born-Again Believer places their trust in the Word of God just as the Apostle Peter did, and all the Apostles.

Apostle Peter - Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:23

#3a - A catholic will receive Salvation IF he/she comes to Christ thru believing the words of Christ.

#3b - Any person from any christian denomination will receive Salvation IF he/she comes to Christ thru believing the words of Christ.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life,
and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." - John 5:24

Finally , You do not know what Catholics think , so stop claiming you do.
You post all the usual nonsense from the anti catholic myth book. Stop it.

You may be unaware that thousands of Protestants , evangelicals , fundamentalists of every description have Returned to Rome.
From Baptist’s to anapabaptists , Pentecostals to church of Christ, lutherans and Calvinist’s of every description , non denoms, episcopals, Presbyterians, like me, they all came to Rome. Their stories are all fascinating.

These include hundreds of ministers and well known theologians who discovered the myths they had bought into came from such as you!

All started from the simple question in a dispute , where is AUTHORITY to decide ?

They all knew that just as they were preaching one thing, on one road , in their town, another David tree was preaching the opposite in the next street , all claiming the same scripture as authority!
So your approach doesn’t work.

The study and reading of the early church showed them the Catholic Church .

The true authority and succession given to Peter and apostles.
It was given authority by Jesus.

It had answers to all your myths, including the falsehood of sola scriptura or that you can determine what scripture means , without tradition or authority.
You can’t.

Read their stories on such as “ journey home “ website, or reason to believe “ Patrick Madrid” book series
They were even more anti catholic than you ,but better informed to start with!

Read such as “ crossing the Tiber” ,or “ upon this rock “ Steve Ray. Or listen to him speak.
Listen to such as Scott Hahn and Jimmy akin.
The ones who came back are legion.

All your anti catholic theology falls apart when you study the early church
Listen to them. Thousands of reasons why they came back to the true church.

And on the bright side, you become part of Jesus church which has a true Eucharist.


You don’t. Which is sad. You profane it.

 

[MTMattie]

Finally , You do not know what Catholics think , so stop claiming you do.
You post all the usual nonsense from the anti catholic myth book. Stop it.

anti catholic myth book?

My RCC family pretty much, over the years has confirmed DT posting.

So there is that!

 

[mikepec]

anti catholic myth book?

My RCC family pretty much, over the years has confirmed DT posting.

So there is that!

Plenty of cradle Catholics don’t know their faith.
That’s why you don’t know it either.
If you did you would never have left.
It’s why you were easy pickings for evangelical nonsense,

Read early fathers.
Actually Learn your faith this time,
Like who and how was the new testament or creed decided?

Study what the early church believed, take the validity of the Eucharist, and the authority of succession bishops.

Now address the issues of authority.
DT has zero.
You have zero,
your family has zero , none of you were sent.

Peter and apostles and successors WERE given authority. Listen to them,

The product of sola scriptura is division of every issue of doctrine. The fruits of the devil.
The David trees all contradict each other. Like Luther, and Lutherans, Calvin’s and calvinists can’t even agree the basics, so there are now 10000 flavours of falsehood. They must be Becausr they al disagree on the truth and there is only one truth that is fixed.So irrelevant what they think.

Study why so many ministers and theologicians came back to rome.
Difference is they knew the faith they left behind, and why they were forced back to Røme for true doctrine.
They came from every variety of protestant and non denom,

I gave a variety of references to follow.

 

[DavidTree]

And by what authority does David tree even have an opinion on scripture?
I ask you again.


Those who were “ sent” were given that authority as Peter alone and apostles jointly given the power to bind and loose, wielded in council, they chose scripture , you have no New Testament without them , and those who were taught by apostles , handed down the true faith tell you what that means. Thats why the church is the pillar of truth.
I follow the true church and those who were sent

Just say thank you to them for scripture and creed. You would not have either without the true church.

Meanwhile You twist at gnats to avoid the obvious meanings of scripture, even more obvious when you see where that took place, Peter is the rock. Do you even know where it took place?. It’s what the word means, you are neither grammatically ( your assertion makes grammatical nonsense) nor historically nor scripturally correct . The church always did have a steward on earth, someone appointed by God . Have you never read the Old Testament? Of Elijah and Moses and Abraham and the rest .

Read the early fathers , if you want to discover the true church, and what scripture meant to those , who unlikeyou ,were given the job of handing down the faith . That is why the church is The pillar of truth.
We are born again by the true meaning.

You have fixed nothing , except your own man made traditon , and false method of interpreting doctrine which led to a myriad of mutually exclusive doctrines on every aspect of faith . Your method leads nowhere except division. It is a failure, when You let your own intellect and arrogance , your idol, deceive you. So sad

You demean Jesus by believing him incapable of keeping his church on track from the first, when he clearly stated thr gospel would be preached to the end of time which includes the first Millenium, and the gates of hell would not prevail against his church. Where all of us base our faith, a doctrine essentially unchanged for 2000 years.

Reformers , an army of David trees , change doctrine every week and split every time they cannot agree . They rely on their idol, their intellect and arrogance, to draw others away from the true church.

So Read early fathers discover the true church.

Till then post on a “ David tree cult “ page, not on catholicism you clearly know nothing about.

And by what authority does David tree even have an opinion on scripture?
I ask you again.

Thank you for this question and Good Morning

Jesus came to a city of Samaria which is called Sychar, near the plot of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. 6Now Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied from His journey, sat thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour.

7A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” 8For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.

9Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.

10Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

11The woman said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? 12Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?”

13Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

 

[MTMattie]

Plenty of cradle Catholics don’t know their faith.
That’s why you don’t know it either.
If you did you would never have left.
It’s why you were easy pickings for evangelical nonsense,

Read early fathers.
Actually Learn your faith this time,
Like who and how was the new testament or creed decided?

Study what the early church believed, take the validity of the Eucharist, and the authority of succession bishops.

Now address the issues of authority.
DT has zero.
You ha

Study why so many ministers and theologicians came back to rome.
Difference is they knew the faith they left behind, and why they were forced back to Røme for true doctrine.

Such as "“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims.” which is in the Catholic Catechism

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church,1 paragraph 841, Muslims together with the Catholics, “adore the one, merciful God.” This cannot be true. The Muslims and Catholics do not adore the same God. In order to provide sufficient context for the quote from the Catechism, I have cited 2 paragraphs before and after paragraph 841.

• 839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”[325] The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,[326] “the first to hear the Word of God.”[327] The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,[328] “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”[329]
• 840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
• 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
• 842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .[331]
• 843 “The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as ‘a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.’

They came from every variety of protestant and non denom,

Σατανᾶς στο ιερό

I gave a variety of references to follow.

You have to be relate to another from another forum or are him under a different name.

 

[mikepec]

Thank you for this question and Good Morning

Jesus came to a city of Samaria which is called Sychar, near the plot of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. 6Now Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied from His journey, sat thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour.

7A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” 8For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.

9Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.

10Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

11The woman said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? 12Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?”

13Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

Utterly irrelevant to a question on authority .
Or why it is all Protestants disagree on all matters of substance.

You have no basis to challenge Catholicism you know nothing about,
Peter, apostleand successors do.
So I follow their - Jesus appointed - view of doctrine.
Now get off the catholic thread , and post on a David tree cult thread whatever it is you believe.
.

 

[DavidTree]

Utterly irrelevant to a question on authority .
Or why it is all Protestants disagree on all matters of substance.

You have no basis to challenge Catholicism you know nothing about,
Peter, apostleand successors do.
So I follow their - Jesus appointed - view of doctrine.
Now get off the catholic thread , and post on a David tree cult thread whatever it is you believe.
.

Have you no fear of God?

Speaking evil of the words of Christ means you make yourself a judge over Christ.

My authority comes from Above and is found in Christ, where i am presently Seated.

"Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures." James 1:16-18

 

[Donald]

The Church Is Catholic and the Church views Mary as an intercessor who can pray on behalf of believers, based on her unique role as the mother of Jesus.

Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions
The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and
hands on what they received from Jesus’ teaching and example and what
they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did
not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself
demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological,
disciplinary, liturgical, or devotional traditions, born in the local churches
over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and
times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition,
these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the
guidance of the Church’s magisterium.

III. The Interpretation of the Heritage of Faith
The heritage of faith entrusted to the whole of the Church
The apostles entrusted the “Sacred deposit” of the faith
(the depositum fidei), contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition,
to the whole of the Church. “By adhering to [this heritage] the
entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to
the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of
bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing, and profess
ing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable
harmony between the bishops and the faithful.”

The Magisterium of the Church
“The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word
of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has
been entrusted to the living, teaching office of the Church alone.
Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus
Christ.” This means that the task of interpretation has been
entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter,
the Bishop of Rome.

“Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God,
but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At
the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens
to this devotedly, guards it with dedication, and expounds it
faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed
is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”

Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears
you, hears me,” the faithful receive with docility the teachings
and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.
CCC 830–878

Jesus’ Church is called catholic (“universal” in Greek) because it is His gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of “all nations”. Matt. 28:19–20

For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family. Gal. 3:28

Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to “make disciples of all nations” Matt. 28:19

The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, “the Catholic Church,” at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

 

[mikepec]

Such as "“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims.” which is in the Catholic Catechism

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church,1 paragraph 841, Muslims together with the Catholics, “adore the one, merciful God.” This cannot be true. The Muslims and Catholics do not adore the same God. In order to provide sufficient context for the quote from the Catechism, I have cited 2 paragraphs before and after paragraph 841.

• 839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”[325] The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,[326] “the first to hear the Word of God.”[327] The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,[328] “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”[329]
• 840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
• 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
• 842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .[331]
• 843 “The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as ‘a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.’

Σατανᾶς στο ιερό

You have to be relate to another from another forum or are him under a different name.

Indeed Protestants are known by their fruits of division and discord .
They are satan in the sanctuary.

My references are post 122 this .
Not another forum.

Accepting that Muslims “ profess “ the God of Abraham “ they do.

Accepting that they adore the one God, then get it as wrong as you can on his nature and how he revealed himself and the plan of salvation , is not a contradiction. JPII summed it up well. Agree on what you can. Disagree profoundly on what you must.

Protestants get it wrong about almost everything because of pride.
They have p!££ed our Lord of rotten by demeaning his mother! And the Eucharist.
It doesn’t mean they are beyond salvation.
Many Catholics have p!££ed him off too. Particularly those who abuse trust.


It can be no accident that our Lady appeared at a place called Fatima, zeitoun in Moslem Egypt , and her house where she lived in Ephesus is now in Moslem turkey and revered by both groups . She bonds where she can.

Jesus came to call sinners, not righteous.
But as for authority to decide disputes on doctrine ? It falls to those Jesus appointed to do it.

 

[DavidTree]

The Church Is Catholic and the Church views Mary as an intercessor who can pray on behalf of believers, based on her unique role as the mother of Jesus.

Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions
The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and
hands on what they received from Jesus’ teaching and example and what
they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did
not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself
demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological,
disciplinary, liturgical, or devotional traditions, born in the local churches
over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and
times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition,
these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the
guidance of the Church’s magisterium.

III. The Interpretation of the Heritage of Faith
The heritage of faith entrusted to the whole of the Church
The apostles entrusted the “Sacred deposit” of the faith
(the depositum fidei), contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition,
to the whole of the Church. “By adhering to [this heritage] the
entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to
the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of
bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing, and profess
ing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable
harmony between the bishops and the faithful.”

The Magisterium of the Church
“The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word
of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has
been entrusted to the living, teaching office of the Church alone.
Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus
Christ.” This means that the task of interpretation has been
entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter,
the Bishop of Rome.

“Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God,
but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At
the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens
to this devotedly, guards it with dedication, and expounds it
faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed
is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”

Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears
you, hears me,” the faithful receive with docility the teachings
and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.
CCC 830–878

Jesus’ Church is called catholic (“universal” in Greek) because it is His gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of “all nations”. Matt. 28:19–20

For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family. Gal. 3:28

Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to “make disciples of all nations” Matt. 28:19

The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, “the Catholic Church,” at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Catholic and the Church views Mary as an intercessor who can pray on behalf of believers,

Which is a DIRECT affront to God and just one of the many reasons to avoid such blatant sin.

You need to place your trust in the words of God that you may be saved by Grace in Christ - 1 Timothy 2:1-7

Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth [d]in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

Mary can never save nor intercede for a single soul before God.

Gospel Good News = JESUS can and will pray for you that you may be saved = John 5:24

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

 

[mikepec]

The Church Is Catholic and the Church views Mary as an intercessor who can pray on behalf of believers, based on her unique role as the mother of Jesus.

Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions
The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and
hands on what they received from Jesus’ teaching and example and what
they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did
not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself
demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological,
disciplinary, liturgical, or devotional traditions, born in the local churches
over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and
times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition,
these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the
guidance of the Church’s magisterium.

III. The Interpretation of the Heritage of Faith
The heritage of faith entrusted to the whole of the Church
The apostles entrusted the “Sacred deposit” of the faith
(the depositum fidei), contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition,
to the whole of the Church. “By adhering to [this heritage] the
entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to
the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of
bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing, and profess
ing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable
harmony between the bishops and the faithful.”

The Magisterium of the Church
“The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word
of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has
been entrusted to the living, teaching office of the Church alone.
Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus
Christ.” This means that the task of interpretation has been
entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter,
the Bishop of Rome.

“Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God,
but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At
the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens
to this devotedly, guards it with dedication, and expounds it
faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed
is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”

Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears
you, hears me,” the faithful receive with docility the teachings
and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.
CCC 830–878

Jesus’ Church is called catholic (“universal” in Greek) because it is His gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of “all nations”. Matt. 28:19–20

For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family. Gal. 3:28

Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to “make disciples of all nations” Matt. 28:19

The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, “the Catholic Church,” at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

My advice is don’t feed the troll.
Anti Catholics never stop, they refuse to study true faith, or history. Sad.
All we can do is remind them , they don’t even have a New Testament without the Jesus given authority of the true church, and that it , not scripture is the pillar of truth, and that’s the way Jesus wanted it.

 

[mikepec]

Such as "“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims.” which is in the Catholic Catechism

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church,1 paragraph 841, Muslims together with the Catholics, “adore the one, merciful God.” This cannot be true. The Muslims and Catholics do not adore the same God. In order to provide sufficient context for the quote from the Catechism, I have cited 2 paragraphs before and after paragraph 841.

• 839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”[325] The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,[326] “the first to hear the Word of God.”[327] The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,[328] “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”[329]
• 840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
• 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
• 842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .[331]
• 843 “The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as ‘a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.’

Σατανᾶς στο ιερό

You have to be relate to another from another forum or are him under a different name.

One aspect of this I ommitted to say.

( some) Calvinists have just as false a view of God , as moslems do.

Despite all scripture has to say to the contrary, they believe many are predestined to hell, regardless of what they do, but they consider themselves are predestined to salvation. Moslems believe much the same.

However misguided some calvinists are , on double predestination, nobody assumes their God is not the God of Abraham, as you appear to do with Moslems In quoting the catechism. It is their view of Him that is wrong.

It also illustrates several other things

1/ The division in Calvinism on predestination , is typical of those who have chosen to leave the true church. Most calvinists do not believe what calvin did, and even Calvin’s own version of truth drifted in his own lifetime, which is the consequence of the false doctrine of sola scriptura , without the authority given to the true church to resolve disputes on true doctrine . So they all believe different things. The Calvinist Presbyterian church is so rife with division it is nicknamed the “ split pea” . Division is fruit of the devil.

2/ Calvin was one of the most arrogant men that ever lived who had contempt for the early church fathers , if they had the temerity to disagree with Calvin, despite the fact it was they , not he , that knew the apostles or their immediate successors and the faith they passed on! He didn't seem to notice there was not a Calvinist amongst the early church!

But here is the point -
no catholic would claim that calvinists have a different God, which is the purpose of that section of catechism.

3/ Calvin professed to object to idolatry. But calvinists have idolatry all their own. Sadly Calvinist idolatry ( and protestant idolatry generally) is worship of their own intellect, to believe only they know what scripture means, in conflict to what early church handed down, despite the mechanisms Jesus put in place to resolve conflicts in His church “ the pillar of truth”

 

[MTMattie]

One aspect of this I ommitted to say.

( some) Calvinists have just as false a view of God , as moslems do.

Despite all scripture has to say to the contrary, they believe many are predestined to hell, regardless of what they do, but they consider themselves are predestined to salvation. Moslems believe much the same.

However misguided some calvinists are , on double predestination, nobody assumes their God is not the God of Abraham, as you appear to do with Moslems In quoting the catechism. It is their view of Him that is wrong.

It also illustrates several other things

1/ The division in Calvinism on predestination , is typical of those who have chosen to leave the true church. Most calvinists do not believe what calvin did, and even Calvin’s own version of truth drifted in his own lifetime, which is the consequence of the false doctrine of sola scriptura , without the authority given to the true church to resolve disputes on true doctrine . So they all believe different things. The Calvinist Presbyterian church is so rife with division it is nicknamed the “ split pea” . Division is fruit of the devil.

2/ Calvin was one of the most arrogant men that ever lived who had contempt for the early church fathers , if they had the temerity to disagree with Calvin, despite the fact it was they , not he , that knew the apostles or their immediate successors and the faith they passed on! He didn't seem to notice there was not a Calvinist amongst the early church!

But here is the point -
no catholic would claim that calvinists have a different God, which is the purpose of that section of catechism.

3/ Calvin professed to object to idolatry. But calvinists have idolatry all their own. Sadly Calvinist idolatry ( and protestant idolatry generally) is worship of their own intellect, to believe only they know what scripture means, in conflict to what early church handed down, despite the mechanisms Jesus put in place to resolve conflicts in His church “ the pillar of truth”

Boy, do you have the wrong person in me.

I AM NOT a Calvenist. I am not a Predestined believer such as Luther would describe.

I do what my Lord and savior told me to do.

So that...

“Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

If that makes me worshipping an idol... Ill admit my Idol is Jesus.

Men have always been first and foremost in the scriptures. Even when Eve did the first sin, the sin is imputed mostly to Adam.
And she was the one who batted her eyelashes and got him to eat.

Jesus always picked men for discipleship and to be apostles... The women who travelled with them were their basic cooks and bottle washers. We hear about Lydia, but not extensively.

No.... I hold a high regard to Mary who carried Jesus because not only was she hand picked (due to lineage) to birth Him but she also had to have put up with those talking behind her back.

But Jesus told us.... John 14:13 “Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

WHY?

It emphasizes the power of prayer and faith in Jesus' name.

 

[Donald]

My advice is don’t feed the troll.
Anti Catholics never stop, they refuse to study true faith, or history. Sad.
All we can do is remind them , they don’t even have a New Testament without the Jesus given authority of the true church, and that it , not scripture is the pillar of truth, and that’s the way Jesus wanted it.

I don't post for them, I like to look things up and hopefully learn more about our Heavenly Father.

 

[mikepec]

Boy, do you have the wrong person in me.

I AM NOT a Calvenist. I am not a Predestined believer such as Luther would describe.

I do what my Lord and savior told me to do.

So that...

“Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

If that makes me worshipping an idol... Ill admit my Idol is Jesus.

Men have always been first and foremost in the scriptures. Even when Eve did the first sin, the sin is imputed mostly to Adam.
And she was the one who batted her eyelashes and got him to eat.

Jesus always picked men for discipleship and to be apostles... The women who travelled with them were their basic cooks and bottle washers. We hear about Lydia, but not extensively.

No.... I hold a high regard to Mary who carried Jesus because not only was she hand picked (due to lineage) to birth Him but she also had to have put up with those talking behind her back.

But Jesus told us.... John 14:13 “Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

WHY?

It emphasizes the power of prayer and faith in Jesus' name.

Didn’t say or hint you were a Calvinist.

I simply pointed out as comparison to Moslems that double predestination calvinists have just as wrong a view of God as Muslims , but nobody accuses them of not following God of Abraham.

You noted a section of catechism apparently objecting to it , and the idea that Moslems profess to to following the God of Abraham . They do profess it. I noted the background to it, which does not in any way support Moslem theology. So the catechism is fair comment. As is JPII explanation of it.

I’ve no idea what you are other than , apparently objecting to true church authority visible everywhere in scripture and early church fathers. That is sad, given the birth advantage you were given. Our Lord noted, judgement will be harder on those who were given much .

Serious question 1

Did you ever study, ignatius, irenaus , polycarp, justin etc?
If you did you will know , that outside the succession you have no valid Eucharist of the real flesh,
because that is what John taught polycarp and irenaus. John knew what Jesus meant by John 6.
You should stay true to what ( they) taught you.

Serious question 2

Are you aware of the meaning of bind and loose to first century Judaism?
That is the reason the physical church IS the pillar of truth , that can and did resolve disputes,


People like me came from Protestantism and evangelical and o had to study all the reasons protestant theologians and ministers of all denominations returned to Rome. The answer is authority to resolve disputes. I discovered all too often cradle Catholics didnt know their faith.

 

[Donald]

This cat has big ambitions,


Did you know Jesus chose the apostles to be the earthly leaders of the Church. He gave them his own authority to teach and to govern—not as dictators, but as loving pastors and fathers. That is why Catholics call their spiritual leaders “father.” In doing so we follow Paul’s example: “I became your father in Jesus Christ through the gospel”

15 After all, though you should have ten thousand teachers (guides to direct you) in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the glad tidings (the Gospel).
16 So I urge and implore you, be imitators of me.
1 Cor. 4:15–16.

The apostles, fulfilling Jesus’ will, ordained bishops, priests, and deacons and thus handed on their apostolic ministry to them—the fullest degree of ordination to the bishops, lesser degrees to the priests and deacons.

 

[John Paul]

This cat has big ambitions,
View attachment 1958

Did you know Jesus chose the apostles to be the earthly leaders of the Church. He gave them his own authority to teach and to govern—not as dictators, but as loving pastors and fathers. That is why Catholics call their spiritual leaders “father.” In doing so we follow Paul’s example: “I became your father in Jesus Christ through the gospel”

15 After all, though you should have ten thousand teachers (guides to direct you) in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the glad tidings (the Gospel).
16 So I urge and implore you, be imitators of me.
1 Cor. 4:15–16.

The apostles, fulfilling Jesus’ will, ordained bishops, priests, and deacons and thus handed on their apostolic ministry to them—the fullest degree of ordination to the bishops, lesser degrees to the priests and deacons.

Hi Donald, I made it, thanks for the invite. And thanks for the heads up on getting a avatar. I'm all set and hope to engage is some uplifting conversations with the awesome members here.

I think my Mitre is cooler than yours, just saying. Found the emojis

 

[DavidTree]

Hi Donald, I made it, thanks for the invite. And thanks for the heads up on getting a avatar. I'm all set and hope to engage is some uplifting conversations with the awesome members here.

I think my Mitre is cooler than yours, just saying. Found the emojis

Are you the John Paul who grew up in Crown Point , NY ???

Or is that just your avatar name or real name but different John Paul?

My best friend thru high school was John Paul - he went by JP.

 

[John Paul]

Are you the John Paul who grew up in Crown Point , NY ???

Or is that just your avatar name or real name but different John Paul?

My best friend thru high school was John Paul - he went by JP.

Thanks for asking but it's the name of the Pope I truly admirer. I grew up on the west coast. My real name is James Dean Sweney
and I was called JD. My Dad liked James Dean as in Reble Without a Cause. He is 73 now so in 1955 when it came out, he was just a kid. I didn't come along till 1971.