brightfame52
Active Member
Ps 5:5 doesnt say God hates sin, though He does, it says He hates the sinner, the person, the worker of iniquity. Thats crafty since no one has questioned the fact that God hates sin.
Defending Universal Reconciliation
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
- Start date
Diserner
Active Member
YOU ARE THE CRAFTY ONE, GIVING ME MOTIVES I DO NOT HAVE, TWISTING WHAT I SAY.
You need to repent!
God hates ALL SIN EVEN YOURS!
brightfame52
Active Member
God hates the DOER of Iniquity, thats the Truth you rebel against. Ps 5:5
Rockson
Active Member
So strange then if God hates sinners the way you think that he also says,
Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Lord GOD. Wouldn't I prefer that he turn from his ways and live? Eze 18:23
So why would he want them to do that if he hates them? We can't claim any other thing except that he truly genuinely wants them. And wants them all.
Rockson
Active Member
Or could it be considered that you are very clearly rebelling against one of the most important Bible revelations that God so loved the world? And sorry but what you Calvinists do with the word WORLD in your rebuttals is ridiculous.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Reminds me of
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
So how are you immune from this to the exclusion of others?
Isn't rather obvious that those who quote such verses often ignore their own failures?
There is one thing this fundamentally true about Universalism. It exposes the bias of many religions that seek to establish some exclusive nature of the Atonement.
Do you mind telling me why you're excluded from the judgement of God? Do you not still sin?
Universalism is often mischaracterized. At the core of Universalism is the very real fact that all men are equal. Equally sinful and can equally avail themselves of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
Have you ever stopped and realized how you are equally guilty of sin?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Like you?
brightfame52
Active Member
That doesnt say He doesnt hate the workers of iniquity.
brightfame52
Active Member
It says God hates the doer of iniquity, that is the persons doing it.
brightfame52
Active Member
Thats up to God, however the good news is, God loves some who are sinners Rom 5:8
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Now its up to God which group I and you belong to !
praise_yeshua
Active Member
No. It is up to you. You're the one insisting that you're different than other sinners.
brightfame52
Active Member
You are in error with that comment, grace error friend.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Will you take pleasure in the destruction of the wicked? Will you rejoice as men fall off into hell while you claim the grace of God for yourself?
Rockson
Active Member
So can we assume you believe you're one of those he's chosen to love? So what is it about you that gains you acceptance over others. My Bible teaches that it is the precious blood of Jesus which blots out and remits all sins (and his body on the cross too) that makes people accepted in his sight. You were just as dark and evil as EVERYONE else but somehow God loved YOU a doer of iniquity the same as everyone else MORE?
brightfame52
Active Member
God hates some sinners Ps 5:5 and God Loves some sinners Rom 5:8 its His Sovereign choice Rom 9:13
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Both men are sinners, God loved one and hated the other.
brightfame52
Active Member
God hates some sinners, and God Loves some sinners, His choice. Nothing in the sinners attracted Gods Love for them, its unconditional , its His own purpose of election Rom 9:11-13
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rockson
Active Member
Total and absolute rubbish.
That didn't even have anything to do with salvation. It had to do with God choosing the line through which the Messiah would come. Of course you won't admit this but I trust readers will understand it.
More confusion. Take the time to study the Bible instead of merely parroting a philosophy against the word of God. Esau NEVER served Jacob. Never! It was speaking of Esau's decedents the Edomites who did this.
Context, context, context! It was the line through which the Messiah would come. Nothing more. Nothing to do with salvation.
Spared His own Son of What? Are you saying that God treated Jesus the same way HE treated those who "knew Him, but didn't Glorify Him "As God"?
In my Bible, God Raised Jesus from the dead, after men who "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate", murdered Him.
And placed this same Jesus at His Right Hand. Where is Judas today? Where are the Pharisees? I think you should differentiate the difference between not Sparing His Righteous Son from the wickedness of this world, from not Sparing those who reject God's Way in favor of their own.
What do you mean "Immune"? Any man who follows popular religions of this world God placed them in, that teach in Christ's Name, claim to cast's out demon in Christ's Name, and build shrines of worship and huge NPO's all in Christ's Name, but Transgress God's Commandments (Work iniquity) by their own religious traditions, would be those the Jesus "of the Bible" says HE doesn't know, Yes?
So the man who "Yields himself" servants to obey God, instead of the Philosophies, doctrines and traditions of this world's religions, would be more likely immune from the consequences of promoting and supporting said religions, Yes?
And those who choose to adopt and promote the philosophies, doctrines and traditions of this world's religion's would not be immune to the consequences. Isn't that the reason the Christ tells men to "Come out of her" in Rev. 18?
You are not the first religious man to be offended by Christ's Inspired Words to the point that you accuse those who would quote them of being a sinner. It's perfectly natural for a man to deflect away from the point of the Scriptures, by turning the conversation into a personal dig.
As if somehow, a man quoting Scriptures is "excluding himself" from them, or as if somehow the Scripture becomes void, because a man with sin quoted them.
I simply asked a question of you. Shall we not consider and discuss ALL of Paul's words? Or just the words men can use to promote a popular religious philosophy of this world?
So why even have a Bible? Why "SEEK the Kingdom of God and HIS righteousness"? Why "Repent" if there is no difference between a man who has "Put on" the New Man, and the man who has not? Since we are all equal sinners and God saves us all, then why even Turn to God?
I posted Paul's and Jesus words, just a few of them, there are many more, to point out the undeniable "Biblical" fact, that not all will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. It seems prudent therefore, to study to find out who "GOD" says enters, rather than this religious man promoting one of this world's religious sects, or that religious men, promoting another of this world's man religious sects.
Now a religion which preaches everyone enters the Kingdom of Heaven, well that's certainly a great marketing strategy to increase membership of such a religion, no doubt this philosophy is a seductive one and "Many" who come in Christ's Name promote it.
Nevertheless, the Scriptures do say what they say.
civic
Active Member
No context with some. A text without the context is a pretext for a proof text. Nothing but a proof texting theology at work.
civic
Active Member
Psalms in some ways is similar to proverbs, mans POV under the sun. Many are prayers or cries for help and for Gods justice to be done. David is doing just that with his own enemies he has fled from. Why doesn't David just stand against them instead of run in fear like he did with Goliath ? Psalm 5 is a selfish prayer by David driven by fear, not faith. Davids own prater below condemns himself with being a liar, cheat, murderer, adulterer, hypocrite, evil doer, wicked sinner. bloodthirsty, arrogant etc...... All the same things he is condemning in others. David take the plank out of your own eye. As Samuel the Prophet taught you with his story that enraged you until you realized it was you who were the guilty one. Then its be merciful to me a sinner becomes the prayer.
@brightfame52 are you just as blind to your own sin as David ?
all the while condemning others ?
Listen to my words, Lord,
consider my lament.
2 Hear my cry for help,
my King and my God,
for to you I pray.
3 In the morning, Lord, you hear my voice;
in the morning I lay my requests before you
and wait expectantly.
4 For you are not a God who is pleased with wickedness;
with you, evil people are not welcome.
5 The arrogant cannot stand
in your presence.
You hate all who do wrong;
6 you destroy those who tell lies.
The bloodthirsty and deceitful
you, Lord, detest.
7 But I, by your great love,
can come into your house;
in reverence I bow down
toward your holy temple.
8 Lead me, Lord, in your righteousness
because of my enemies—
make your way straight before me.
9 Not a word from their mouth can be trusted;
their heart is filled with malice.
Their throat is an open grave;
with their tongues they tell lies.
10 Declare them guilty, O God!
Let their intrigues be their downfall.
Banish them for their many sins,
for they have rebelled against you.
11 But let all who take refuge in you be glad;
let them ever sing for joy.
Spread your protection over them,
that those who love your name may rejoice in you.
12 Surely, Lord, you bless the righteous;
you surround them with your favor as with a shield.
@brightfame52 are you just as blind to your own sin as David ?
all the while condemning others ?
Listen to my words, Lord,
consider my lament.
2 Hear my cry for help,
my King and my God,
for to you I pray.
3 In the morning, Lord, you hear my voice;
in the morning I lay my requests before you
and wait expectantly.
4 For you are not a God who is pleased with wickedness;
with you, evil people are not welcome.
5 The arrogant cannot stand
in your presence.
You hate all who do wrong;
6 you destroy those who tell lies.
The bloodthirsty and deceitful
you, Lord, detest.
7 But I, by your great love,
can come into your house;
in reverence I bow down
toward your holy temple.
8 Lead me, Lord, in your righteousness
because of my enemies—
make your way straight before me.
9 Not a word from their mouth can be trusted;
their heart is filled with malice.
Their throat is an open grave;
with their tongues they tell lies.
10 Declare them guilty, O God!
Let their intrigues be their downfall.
Banish them for their many sins,
for they have rebelled against you.
11 But let all who take refuge in you be glad;
let them ever sing for joy.
Spread your protection over them,
that those who love your name may rejoice in you.
12 Surely, Lord, you bless the righteous;
you surround them with your favor as with a shield.
Similar threads
