Concupiscence

John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work "which thou gavest me to do".

His Works, everything HE did, originated from His Father, at least according to dozens of eye witness accounts that were recorded as a Testimony of Him.

I'm going to deal with just one verse you referenced. You treated them all the same. I'm going to identify your mistake here. You can either deal with this verse moving forward without endless "throwing" verses at this or not. Your choice. I'm not going to get side tracked from what I'm doing to entertain you.

Now. Say clearly that this work that Jesus did was against the will of Christ Jesus. You said that what Christ did.... originated with the Father. That it all came from the Father. The context of willingness here is lost on you. The aspect of a common will shared in Character is lost on you. You don't understand it because you've never experienced it yourself.

Then why the video?

I don't care if anyone sees our ugly faces. I offered audio. Like I said. Your choice. When I say I don't care. I'm saying that I don't care if they do or they don't. Hence = I DON'T care.

Why would it be important to someone who has "Yielded themselves to God", to understand the reason why you don't write books?

Yield. Thank God. There is that word....... You used it. It a wonderful word.

Christ never had to "yield" himself to God.

It works both ways PY. You show people who you are as well.

Contrary to what you think. I usually consider, BEFORE I WRITE, if something applies to me or not. I try to avoid such nonsense of having arguments that equally apply to each participant.

I didn't exclude myself. I well know this. You didn't have to tell me. Hence.... I said "I'll wait" till we both meet with WHO matters. That will be Jesus Christ. You'll bow. I'll bow. He will speak of us. Then it will matter.
 
I've not claimed authority.
You’ve assumed the authority to critique the authority of others. Your criticism assumes your belief that you understand better than others; that you know better than those of differing interpretations.

To disagree is one thing, but to discredit the worthiness of someone else’s opinion, education, and conclusions is another thing altogether.
You are a self identifying Arminian. I know what you believe because I know what your teachers taught you.
This isn’t about what I believe as much as what you think I believe. Arminian thought has a wide range of opinions about different things. I have disagreed with many things that I was taught, especially in the Wesleyan vein of thought.

Doug
 
I'm going to deal with just one verse you referenced. You treated them all the same. I'm going to identify your mistake here. You can either deal with this verse moving forward without endless "throwing" verses at this or not. Your choice. I'm not going to get side tracked from what I'm doing to entertain you.

Now. Say clearly that this work that Jesus did was against the will of Christ Jesus. You said that what Christ did.... originated with the Father. That it all came from the Father. The context of willingness here is lost on you.

No, it's not lost on me at all. I posted, and of course you ignored, that Jesus was born with emotions and desires as all men. It is written that He "learned obedience" which means HE learned from His Father how to control and direct the natural Free will human desires and emotions we are all born with, for Good and not for evil. His Ministry didn't even begin, until HE learned to "Rule over them", and trust in His perfect Father regarding how to truly preserve His Self Interest. This is Lost with you, not me.

The Bible says, "Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, "thy God", (Jesus' Father) "hath anointed thee" with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Jesus was born with the natural desire for self preservation just as we all were. That was HIS Will.

Luke 22: 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless "not my will", "but thine", be done.

So right here is a perfect example of Jesus "Denying Himself", to do the Will of the Father.

This world's religions promote the Philosophy that Jesus overcame, not because HE Denied Himself, but "Because" He was GOD, even though HE told me to deny myself. In essence you are promoting that Jesus placed burdens on my back that HE Himself didn't lift with even one finger. That Jesus "Risked Nothing", that His Death was just Hollywood, a scam, a show, because GOD can't die. You imply that HIS Temptations were just a deception, because GOD can't be tempted. That Jesus "pretended" to be a man, but when the going got tough, as it does with all humans, HE just kicked in God's Powers that HE withheld from all other humans, and overcame through these Powers, and His father gave Him a Trophy for it.

That is the foundation of your argument against the Biblical Truth that Jesus' works, actions and mission didn't originated in Himself, but in the Father.

I will not join the course of this world's wicked judgments against God and His Son in this matter. I will not demean the great sacrifice the Christ made, by preaching to others that HE overcame, not because HE offered Himself a Living Sacrifice to God His Father IN FAITH, but because HE reserved unto Himself God powers that HE withheld from all other humans, and by this power HE overcame.

The aspect of a common will shared in Character is lost on you. You don't understand it because you've never experienced it yourself.

God and His Son Jesus shared a Father/Son relationship. This is Lost on you, as you have adopted this world's religious philosophy that they shared a God/God relationship.

I don't care if anyone sees our ugly faces. I offered audio. Like I said. Your choice. When I say I don't care. I'm saying that I don't care if they do or they don't. Hence = I DON'T care.
I don't care about your video either.

Yield. Thank God. There is that word....... You used it. It a wonderful word.

Christ never had to "yield" himself to God.
Not your Jesus, but the Jesus of the Bible "being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross".

And this, not because HE "HAD" to, but because HE "Chose" to, of His Own Free will, as HE tells men, if they only believed.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, "because" I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. "I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again". This commandment have I received "of my Father".

He did this for me. That's why I listen to Him, and not this world's religions you are here to promote.

Contrary to what you think. I usually consider, BEFORE I WRITE, if something applies to me or not. I try to avoid such nonsense of having arguments that equally apply to each participant.

I didn't exclude myself. I well know this. You didn't have to tell me. Hence.... I said "I'll wait" till we both meet with WHO matters. That will be Jesus Christ. You'll bow. I'll bow. He will speak of us. Then it will matter.

In the meantime, Paul teaches that men should Labor, that they might be accepted of Him. And Peter teaches to be diligent that we are found by Him without spot and blameless. And Jesus teaches that we should "Seek God's Righteousness" and "Live By" Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God, and be perfect, even as our Father in heaven is perfect.

And all this in the Hope that Jesus will see our Labor in the Lord, having believed Paul that our Labor in not in vain, and that HE might advocate on our behalf.

This seems more important than a video to try and prove Jesus didn't come to do the Will of the Father, but the will of Himself.
 
You’ve assumed the authority to critique the authority of others. Your criticism assumes your belief that you understand better than others; that you know better than those of differing interpretations.

I do know better. Authority is more than claiming knowledge that others do not have. Authority is actually the right to be wrong. It is power that exists over others whether they are right or wrong.

That is authority. Submission is required to others even when they are wrong.

What matter is.....where that authority comes from.

To disagree is one thing, but to discredit the worthiness of someone else’s opinion, education, and conclusions is another thing altogether.

This isn’t about what I believe as much as what you think I believe. Arminian thought has a wide range of opinions about different things. I have disagreed with many things that I was taught, especially in the Wesleyan vein of thought.

Doug

I don't care what education you claim over me. It doesn't exist. Do you know how many arguments/debates I've had in my life over this? Over and over again.

So lets have it again..... One more time....

You don't speak of Wesleyans. You have no authority to speak for them. Yet, you're trying to do just that. I know what your teachers taught you. If they were alive, I would ask to speak to them. They're not.

There are so many things you're fundamentally incapable of defending in this. If you want me to show you, I will. So keep talking.
 
No, it's not lost on me at all. I posted, and of course you ignored, that Jesus was born with emotions and desires as all men. It is written that He "learned obedience" which means HE learned from His Father how to control and direct the natural Free will human desires and emotions we are all born with, for Good and not for evil. His Ministry didn't even begin, until HE learned to "Rule over them", and trust in His perfect Father regarding how to truly preserve His Self Interest. This is Lost with you, not me.

God is emotional. God has desires. Jesus had them before he was born of Mary.

You've been taught many many bad things. It is why you answer the way you do.

So we have a fundamental disagreement. So tell me how we get past this?

You need to change how you understand emotions. Emotions do not come from the flesh.
 
Authority is actually the right to be wrong.
Nothing about right or wrong or the right to be either.



Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

au·thor·i·ty
/əˈTHôrədē/

noun
noun
: authority; plural noun: authorities
  1. 1.
    the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.
    "he had absolute authority over his subordinates"
    Similar:

    power
    jurisdiction
    command
    control
    mastery
    charge
    dominance
    dominion
    rule
    sovereignty
    ascendancy
    supremacy
    domination
    influence
    sway
    the upper hand
    leverage
    hold
    grip
    clout
    pull
    muscle
    teeth
    drag
    • the right to act in a specified way, delegated from one person or organization to another.
      "military forces have the legal authority to arrest drug traffickers"
      Similar:

      authorization
      right
      power
      mandate
      prerogative
      license
      carte blanche
      droit
    • official permission; sanction.
      "the money was spent without congressional authority"
      Similar:

      authorization
      permission
      consent
      leave
      sanction
      license
      dispensation
      assent
      acquiescence
      agreement
      approval
      seal of approval
      approbation
      endorsement
      imprimatur
      clearance
      the go-ahead
      the thumbs up
      the OK
      the green light
      say-so
      permit
  2. 2.
    a person or organization having power or control in a particular, typically political or administrative, sphere.
    "the health authorities"
    Similar:

    officials
    officialdom
    the people in charge
    the government
    the administration
    the establishment
    the bureaucracy
    the system
    the police
    the powers that be
    the (men in) suits
    Big Brother
    • the confidence resulting from personal expertise.
      "he hit the ball with authority"

 
    • a person with extensive or specialized knowledge about a subject; an expert.
      "she was an authority on the stock market"
      Similar:

      expert
      specialist
      professional
      pundit
      oracle
      past master
      master
      maestro
      doyen
      adept
      guru
      sage
      scholar
      connoisseur
      aficionado
      one of the cognoscenti
      walking encyclopedia
      bible
      buff
      boffin
      ace
      pro
      whiz
      wizard
      dab hand
      maven
      crackerjack
      source
      reference
      piece of documentation
      citation
      quotation
      quote
      excerpt
      passage
    • a book or other source able to supply reliable information or evidence, typically to settle a dispute.
      "the court cited a series of authorities supporting their decision"
Origin

78032c8f7161a97840812c57696f521a04f3a96ca8a3fdf03e334440d7f5dfbb.png
 

    • a person with extensive or specialized knowledge about a subject; an expert.
      "she was an authority on the stock market"
      Similar:
      expert
      specialist
      professional
      pundit
      oracle
      past master
      master
      maestro
      doyen
      adept
      guru
      sage
      scholar
      connoisseur
      aficionado
      one of the cognoscenti
      walking encyclopedia
      bible
      buff
      boffin
      ace
      pro
      whiz
      wizard
      dab hand
      maven
      crackerjack
      source
      reference
      piece of documentation
      citation
      quotation
      quote
      excerpt
      passage

    • a book or other source able to supply reliable information or evidence, typically to settle a dispute.
      "the court cited a series of authorities supporting their decision"
Origin
78032c8f7161a97840812c57696f521a04f3a96ca8a3fdf03e334440d7f5dfbb.png
Okay. Set this aside for a moment. Did God give authority to kings of this earth that did evil? Did they loose their authority? Did Jesus speak of the authority those whited graves had over the people he loved? Did Jesus literally free them from such?

You will not find the proper perspective of authority coming from Latin in this. We can reason it from the Scriptures themselves.
 
If you didn't think you knew better, we wouldn't be arguing. No hubris involved.
I don’t think I know better than you, I just understand differently and disagree with your opinion on academic foundations of theology and hermeneutics.

I don’t think I am better than you, for I have only to keep my own nose clean before God and I have no reason for pride in his presence. We’re all in the same boat before him.

Doug
 
Did God give authority to kings of this earth that did evil? Did they loose their authority?
I’m not sure why you’re asking me this question.
Did Jesus speak of the authority those whited graves had over the people he loved? Did Jesus literally free them from such?
I don’t have any idea what you’re asking here either…”whited graves”?
You will not find the proper perspective of authority coming from Latin in this.
Scripture is a collection of words; words have meanings, meaning establishes boundaries of truth. Authority has nothing to do with having the right to be wrong! Etymology matters!

Doug
 
I don’t think I know better than you, I just understand differently and disagree with your opinion on academic foundations of theology and hermeneutics.

I don’t think I am better than you, for I have only to keep my own nose clean before God and I have no reason for pride in his presence. We’re all in the same boat before him.

Doug
I never said I was better than you. That is a measure of value. It simply that I know all these subjects better than you do. You believe you understand then better than I do.

I will agree that we disagree. We don't have to agree. Neither of us have any authority from God. We are equals in such. You should recognize this and then we can truly be equals in this conversation. We can deal with each others as equals and make this all about the facts. No posturing. No pretense. Just us being who we are.
 
I’m not sure why you’re asking me this question.

I don’t have any idea what you’re asking here either…”whited graves”?

Scripture is a collection of words; words have meanings, meaning establishes boundaries of truth. Authority has nothing to do with having the right to be wrong! Etymology matters!

Doug

A collection of words. Some of them similar. Some of them different. They are from ancient languages and you're appealing to English. In the OP. I dealt with one of those issues and showed exactly how Latin has influenced the false doctrine you hold in some "fallen nature" you preach. I also spoke of how Augustine influenced this throughout his "ministry". Forget about Arminians. Forget about Calvinists. Forget about everyone but you and I.

I don't preach this. I don't influence other people to believe such nonsense.

My appeal to whited graves is a reference to the Pharisees. That is what Jesus called them as recorded in the Gospel of Matthew. Chapter 23 and verse 27.

You didn't recognize what I said because I used different words than what you associate doctrines with in your endless "word conflations" that make up the bulk of your doctrine.

I don't do this. I actually study and try to not to take the easy path to any conclusion. Not that I haven't done this in the past. I have. I changed.

Let me recognize that I don't even know if Matthew actually wrote the Gospel that carries his name. I know that when it was written, that there were NO chapter and verse distinctions. (these often hinder as well as help). All of these came from men. Not God. Not that "Matthew" actually wasn't the writer. He might have been. It might have originated in derivative Hebrew of the period. I don't know exact. I "kinda' believe that it did. There are so many assumptions made when all someone does is "scratch the surface.

You may ask why I'm saying all this and I'll you why....

It matters. Little things affect what you believe. The little "grapes" are tender. A little leaven causes the bread to change significantly.

Humans/People often want infinite understanding to be "right at their fingertips". You know books. Cliff notes. (though I don't even know if a young person knows what they are anymore). Summaries. Interpretations. Teachers that they can "hang" their entire eternity upon.

I'm making the argument that "authority" comes from God. Not man. God gave authority to some and we must obey them. Even when they're wrong.

That is authority. It exists in kings/rulers. There is a balance that is maintain on this planet relative to the "authority" that exists in society. However, that doesn't mean that God is actually in much of it at all. He isn't getting His way with it.

So when you appeal to "authority" it is hallow to me. You're not speaking for God.

I will also, that I'm speaking for ME. You are too. It doesn't matter to me if you want to believe you're speaking for God or not. What you say will reveal whether you do or do not.

Debate reveals this.

Luk 21:15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict.

So, prove me wrong. Lets see who contradicts themselves or the facts of the Scriptures or Realty.

I'm fine with being wrong. I want to find it. I'm looking for it right now.
 
God is emotional. God has desires. Jesus had them before he was born of Mary.

The Spirit of Christ existed before Mary, the man Jesus didn't.


You've been taught many many bad things. It is why you answer the way you do.

Surely you should then be able to point out in my post, as I did in yours, where I am promoting "bad things". Surely even you must understand that you need evidence to support your accusations. And yet, you never provide any other than your own words. Shall I then reject the Words of the Jesus "of the Bible" based on your baseless accusations? I think not.


So we have a fundamental disagreement. So tell me how we get past this?

You fundamental disagreements are with the Jesus "of the Bible", not me. It's HIS Words you refuse to acknowledge and discuss. Perhaps a good starting place would be to take Jesus "off ignore" and listen to Him.

Something to think about.

You need to change how you understand emotions. Emotions do not come from the flesh.

Of course not, how silly. Emotions come from God. What spirit would make you imply that I said or believe emotions came from the flesh?

Are you OK PY?
 
The Spirit of Christ existed before Mary, the man Jesus didn't.

You can't separate the union of God from Jesus. I know you want to do this but you can't. You're destroying the Character of God. I know you don't care. You care about YOU.

Surely you should then be able to point out in my post, as I did in yours, where I am promoting "bad things". Surely even you must understand that you need evidence to support your accusations. And yet, you never provide any other than your own words. Shall I then reject the Words of the Jesus "of the Bible" based on your baseless accusations? I think not.

I did sluggard. The one I responded to.

You fundamental disagreements are with the Jesus "of the Bible", not me. It's HIS Words you refuse to acknowledge and discuss. Perhaps a good starting place would be to take Jesus "off ignore" and listen to Him.

Something to think about..

I always think. I never stop thinking. You're not Jesus. Comparing yourself to Jesus is another one of your problems. You're really dumb compared to Jesus. I mean really dumb in comparison. I mean really really dumb.

That is why I listen to Jesus and don't listen to you.

Of course not, how silly. Emotions come from God. What spirit would make you imply that I said or believe emotions came from the flesh?

Are you OK PY?

Your words did. You said it. Do I need to repeat them to you? I quoted them when I responded.

Again. YOU are really really really dumb compared to Jesus. YOU judge Jesus by YOUR dumbness.

There is a HUGE difference between you two. Jesus is God. You're just a man. You'll die one of these days. Lets see if you can raise yourself from the grave.

So go ahead. Claim the Father will do the same thing for you. I'm ready to respond.
 
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You can't separate the union of God from Jesus. I know you want to do this but you can't.

"The Spirit of Christ, the Rock that followed Israel, existed before Mary, but the man Jesus didn't." This is undeniable Biblical Truth.

The Saints, that is, those faithful men who kept the Commandments of God "AND" the Faith "of Jesus", that was taught in the Law and Prophets, "Waited" for the Prophesied Prophet God promised to "raise up" from among their brethren.

Are you so completely deceived that you don't know that the reason why they "waited", was because "HE was not yet Born"?

You're destroying the Character of God. I know you don't care. You care about YOU.

The religion you are here to promote has already did that, in that they promote a God who did wonders and miracles to gain the trust of men, and then when they trusted God enough to follow Him out of Egypt, HE placed impossible to obey Laws on their necks, lied to them about their ability to obey them, then killed them by the thousands when they didn't obey. Then HE came to earth, pretending to be a man, pretending to be his Own Son, and pretending to be killed, so that HE could free you from the Laws of God your religion implies was the scourge of the earth and "Against all men".

Truly, a world with such a religion, is at enmity with the real God and the Real Messiah. The reason why I'm posting is because I care. Not just for you, but also those poor souls who believe your dogma.

I did sluggard. The one I responded to.

You only prove your own hubris and lack of understanding. You are embarrassing yourself PY. You should really just stop.

I always think. I never stop thinking.

Such a condition is common among men who are alive.

You're not Jesus. Comparing yourself to Jesus is another one of your problems.

Of course I'm not Jesus. Are you on some medication or do you drink? What is with you?

Jesus said to be perfect even as His Father in heaven is perfect. I haven't seen the Father, but I have seen His Perfect Son who shows me the Character of His Father. Shall a man who Loves the Father, not strive to be like His Son? Isn't that the whole point of repentance? Do you even read the Bible?

Phil. 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 "I press toward the mark" for the prize of the high calling of God (Which is) in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, "as many as be perfect", be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

What spirit would discourage a man from striving to be a Son of God, like His Son Jesus?

You should start reading the Bible PY, before you work so hard to turn men away from their Savior, and their Father.

You're really dumb compared to Jesus. I mean really dumb in comparison. I mean really really dumb.

I have known for sometime now, based on your posts, that you believe much of the instructions from God, though His Word and His Son who spoke His Words, are "Dumb", really really dumb. But God saw you coming, and HE prepared me for preachers like you, "who profess to know God", for which I am eternally grateful.

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let "no man" deceive you: he that "doeth righteousness" is righteous, even as "he is righteous".

And again;

1 Jn. 2: 5 But whoso "keepeth his word", in him verily is the love of God perfected: "hereby know we" that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so "to walk", even as he walked.

How are these things even possible without looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of my Faith?

But you call this mind set, "really really dumb".


That is why I listen to Jesus and don't listen to you.

And yet, I post His words and you can't bear to even acknowledge them, much less believe what He is saying.

Your words did. You said it. Do I need to repeat them to you? I quoted them when I responded.

Well you promote falsehoods about God and His Son, the Jesus "of the Bible", am I surprised that you also promote falsehoods about me? I think not. It's not me you can't stand PY. It's Christ's Words within me that cause you so much discomfort.

Again. YOU are really really really dumb compared to Jesus. YOU judge Jesus by YOUR dumbness.

Nevertheless, I press towards the Mark for the Prize of the High Calling of God that was in Christ Jesus.

You preach to the world that I will never make it. The same spirit tried to discourage Caleb and Shadrack with the same tactic as well. And perhaps you are right. Nevertheless, I will not bow to you or this world's religions you are here to promote, nor will I further this world's wicked judgments against God and His Son, that you promote.

You could have just said to Doug, "You know, maybe you are right, and Jesus' Words Concerning where His Knowledge, His Life, His wisdom and power came from, was His Father.

What a waste of time.

There is a HUGE difference between you two. Jesus is God. You're just a man. You'll die one of these days. Lets see if you can raise yourself from the grave.

Again, Jesus' Words must correct you. Here, let me edit your foolishness to resemble something that at least resembles actual truth.

There is a HUGE difference between you two. Jesus is (The Son Of) God. You're just a man (Who Trusts Jesus and His Father's Words). You'll die one of these days. Lets see if you can the Same God that raised His Son Jesus, will send Jesus to raise yourself from the grave, and God Raised Jesus from the grave.

To which I would reply, "That is my hope."

So go ahead. Claim the Father will do the same thing for you. I'm ready to respond.

I live by the Faith of Jesus, that God is true.
 
Of course I'm not Jesus. Are you on some medication or do you drink? What is with you?

The ole "the captain isn't drinking today"..... routine.

Jesus said to be perfect even as His Father in heaven is perfect. I haven't seen the Father, but I have seen His Perfect Son who shows me the Character of His Father. Shall a man who Loves the Father, not strive to be like His Son? Isn't that the whole point of repentance? Do you even read the Bible?

Then why aren't you like His Son?

You're bloviating. The is the last time I offer you a public debate where we can go line by line into everything you're saying. Otherwise, you can talk to yourself.

What spirit would discourage a man from striving to be a Son of God, like His Son Jesus?

I didn't. I said you're not like Him. Why are you failing?

But you call this mind set, "really really dumb".

Pay attention. I didn't say anything was really really dumb except for you to compare yourself to Jesus. This always happens with YOU.

Nevertheless, I press towards the Mark for the Prize of the High Calling of God that was in Christ Jesus.

You do? If you're pressing toward something, then you're not there.... right?

So this "end around" you're on in comparing yourself to Jesus is what? A "work in progress".

So how close are you being just like Jesus? Give me a percentage. A self assessment. You can do it. I believe in your ego.

You preach to the world that I will never make it. The same spirit tried to discourage Caleb and Shadrack with the same tactic as well. And perhaps you are right. Nevertheless, I will not bow to you or this world's religions you are here to promote, nor will I further this world's wicked judgments against God and His Son, that you promote.

You could have just said to Doug, "You know, maybe you are right, and Jesus' Words Concerning where His Knowledge, His Life, His wisdom and power came from, was His Father.

What a waste of time.

He can't be right given what he believes. I've been establishing such this entire time.

Again, Jesus' Words must correct you. Here, let me edit your foolishness to resemble something that at least resembles actual truth.

To which I would reply, "That is my hope."

So the Father is going to do the exact same for you that He did for Jesus? Right?

I'm glad you said that. I knew you would. You believe that you're just like Jesus. Your theology teaches that you are.

Jesus arose from the grave of His own power. The Father didn't use His power to raise Jesus from the Grave.

So deal with it. Tell me how I'm wrong. Go ahead. This is going reveal what you are. So keep going.

I live by the Faith of Jesus, that God is true.

So you have an idol in Jesus Christ right? What do you have faith in Jesus Christ? Is He God to you?

Yes. He is God. He just doesn't solely represent God like you claim you do as well. He is God. You are not.

It has long amazed me that you Unitarians "say"..... they have faith in Jesus Christ and then claim He isn't God. Take your own medicine. You're treating Jesus as God in your "faith" in Him and yet denying His position.

Double minded nonsense.
 
The ole "the captain isn't drinking today"..... routine.

Then why aren't you like His Son?

When? When Jesus was a month old? Both Jesus and I had crap and urine wiped off our butts at a month old until at least 2 years old and older by our mothers. I was like Jesus then. Could Jesus preach the Gospel at 1 year old? Neither could I. I was like Him then. Could Jesus walk or run at 6 months old? No He couldn't, and neither could I. If you were Jesus' earthy father, would you yell at Him for falling as HE was learning how to walk? Would you rebuke Him for "Failing". Would you say to Him, "Why are you falling, get up you bloviating failure.

And yet, that is exactly what you are saying to me.

Did Jesus Learn Obedience by the things HE suffered? What faithful human in the Bible didn't? Show me 1! Why wasn't Jesus walking and talking at 5 days old? Was HE failing? Did HE "hate God" as you preach about me?

How old was Jesus when HIS Father allowed His Ministry to begin? Of course your master will not let you answer.

Why didn't God wipe out all the nations before Joshua at once, but drove them out little by little?

No, it's "Not as though I had already attained, either are already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus".

It's the Prize I press towards. Neither you nor the serpent in the garden are going to turn me out of the way.

When was Jesus "made perfect"? Why did HE even need to be "Made Perfect" since you preach to the world HE was born "GOD".

Heb. 5: 5 So also Christ glorified "not himself" to be made an high priest; but "he" that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Wait a minute, you preach to the world that HE raised Himself from the dead, but HE couldn't make Himself High Priest?

6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7 Who in the days "of his flesh", when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears "unto him" (Unto God, not Himself ) "that was able to save him from death", and was heard (BECAUSE) in that he feared;

8 Though he were a Son, "yet learned he obedience" by the things which he suffered; 9 And "being made perfect", (Not born perfect) he became the author of eternal salvation "unto all them" that obey him;

Of course You must be in total control of the conversation at all times. You must exalt yourself above anyone who would dare question even one of your words and all your posts are created to show your superiority over others. Which means you can't actually answer questions or even engage in honest discussion. Please google NPD and get some help.


Jesus arose from the grave of His own power. The Father didn't use His power to raise Jesus from the Grave. Tell me how I'm wrong. Go ahead.

I'm not going to tell you that you are wrong. I am a nobody, my words mean little. I'm going to let the Spirit of God tell you that you are wrong. As I said, your "fundamental disagreement" is not with me, it's with the Spirit of God.

Rom. 6: 14 And "God" hath both raised up the Lord, and "will also raise up us" by his own power.

Eph. 1: 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, "the Father of glory", may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of "his mighty power",

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when "he" (*Father of the Lord's Christ) "raised him" (The Lord's Christ) "from the dead", and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Acts 2: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 3: 14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 5: 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath "God exalted" with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Acts 10: 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

Gal. 1: 1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and "God the Father", who "raised him from the dead";)

Heb. 13: 20 Now the God of peace, that brought again "from the dead" our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Acts 13: 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that "he hath raised up Jesus" again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.


So you have an idol in Jesus Christ right? What do you have faith in Jesus Christ? Is He God to you?

I strive for the Faith "OF Jesus" that HE had towards God His Father, "when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared". Jesus is the Head of God's Church, HE is my Lord that His Father Sent and gave me too and commanded that I "hearken" to His Words. This Jesus said to Live by His Father's Words.

You clearly don't believe in this Jesus.

It has long amazed me that you Unitarians "say"..... they have faith in Jesus Christ and then claim He isn't God.

Again, your mental condition causes you to manipulate other people words for your own selfish ambitions. Here, let me show you what I actually believe.

"they have the faith of Jesus Christ and then claim He is the Son of God who came in the Flesh".

Take your own medicine. You're treating Jesus as God in your "faith" in Him and yet denying His position.

Again, more dishonest manipulation to satisfy fleshy lusts for superiority.

Here, let me show you what I actually believe.

"I'm treating Jesus as the Son of God, the Prophesied Messiah that God Sent and commanded me to obey, and my "faith" in God allows me to believe in the Jesus "of the Bible" enough to be a "doer" of His Sayings, and not a hearer only, like you.
 
I know all these subjects better than you do.
Proverbs 16:18

You believe you understand then better than I do.
I believe I am more biblically correct from an academic perspective than your arguments are. I will be the first to admit that there is nothing academic for which I have more knowledge than anyone else. I am the least of my brothers. This said, when I say something, it is said with earnest and technical fortitude as to the language and syntax of the scriptural language.

Again, the language of the written Word of God are the words of God, and words were spoken in human terms that have specific meaning. Everything I say and believe is based solely on the words.
Neither of us have any authority from God.
My ministerial credentials (which indicates that I have been tested and approved by my superiors to preach the gospel and lead his people in a local church) would beg to differ! Again, that’s not to say I am better than anyone else, but I have been given “authority” by God to do what I have been doing for the last 47 years!
My appeal to whited graves is a reference to the Pharisees. That is what Jesus called them as recorded in the Gospel of Matthew. Chapter 23 and verse 27
The term is whitewashed graves!
You didn't recognize what I said because I used different words than what you associate doctrines with in your endless "word conflations" that make up the bulk of your doctrine.
I didn’t recognize it because you misspelled the word from its common, modern day usage. Whitewashed, or whitened, not “whited”, which is an archaic form of the word not used anymore.
I don't do this. I actually study and try to not to take the easy path to any conclusion. Not that I haven't done this in the past. I have. I changed.
Have you studied Greek or Hebrew, taken any hermeneutics classes, systematic theology courses?

I learned from people who never used an English Bible, but read straight from the Greek when they taught and preached. They set the bar high, and while I haven’t followed precisely in their footsteps, they taught me how to study and be well prepared to rightly divide the word of truth. I have tried to honor their example by not being haphazard in my studies.


Doug
 
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