The point is that instructions for how to do something are not made for experts who are already living in accordance with those instructions, but rather they are made for those who need to be taught how to do that, and Isaiah 42:9 doesn't say anything that is contrary to this point or to Isaiah 51:7.
Commandments of God
- Thread starter Jamie Russell CME
- Start date
Brakelite
Active member
Certainly, particularly after God's people had endured 400 years in captivity to slave masters and constantly exposed to a pagan mindset and religion that was diametrically opposed to God. They need to know Who He was, and what He expected of them.
They immediately failed in their promise to obey everything He commanded. So what then?
The Sanctuary service: it's rituals, sacrifices, feast days, priesthood.
First, God gave a law to reveal sin, then He gave statutes and commandments to deal with sin.
The first was placed inside the ark under the mercy seat. The second beside the ark. The first, written by God, the second, by Moses. The first, permanent, the second until Christ. Intermingled with the second eye laws pertaining to the theocracy which was then developing, and those statutes and civil laws along with more defined explanations of what the 10 words covered, all contributed to creating a people worthy of God's purposes through which He could speak to the whole of mankind.
Luke 16:16-18 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void. 18 “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.
According to the above verses, which are the laws that you think that Jesus was saying were temporary until John and became void with him?
Brakelite
Active member
The Sanctuary sacrifices, feast days, rituals etc were temporary in the sense that they changed when type met antitype.
KJV Daniel 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined
.
KJV Daniel 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV Hebrews 3:1-6
1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
They who know righteousness are those in whose heart is God’s law, thus the law of God is the righteousness of God. We can prove this another way….
All unrighteousness is sin….1 John 5:17 and whosoever commits sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4
Sin is the transgression of the law, and it is also unrighteousness, therefore sin and unrighteousness are the same. So if unrighteousness is transgression against the law, surely righteousness must be obedience to the law. Now we need to know “what law”?
It is the law which says “thou shalt not covet”. because Paul tells us that it was that law which convinced him of sin. (Romans 7:7.) The law of ten commandments then, is the measure of the righteousness of God. Since it is the law of God, and is righteousness, it must be the righteousness of God. In fact, there really is no other righteousness. It is a written manifestation of the character and nature of God. God is also love, and Paul tells us that love is the fulfilling of the law. Thus if we are to seek God’s righteousness, then we are to seek obedience, through faith, to God’s law, by love. Thus rather than doing away with the law, (how can it be possible to do away with God’s righteousness?) through love we establish the law. All by faith. Not our righteousness, but God’s.
So Solomon was perfectly correct and agreed with the text of Matt 6:33 when he said:
“Let us hear the conclusion to the whole matter: fear God and keep His commandments; for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether they be good, or whether they be evil.” Eccl 12:13, 14.
KJV Daniel 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined
.
KJV Daniel 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV Hebrews 3:1-6
1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
They who know righteousness are those in whose heart is God’s law, thus the law of God is the righteousness of God. We can prove this another way….
All unrighteousness is sin….1 John 5:17 and whosoever commits sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4
Sin is the transgression of the law, and it is also unrighteousness, therefore sin and unrighteousness are the same. So if unrighteousness is transgression against the law, surely righteousness must be obedience to the law. Now we need to know “what law”?
It is the law which says “thou shalt not covet”. because Paul tells us that it was that law which convinced him of sin. (Romans 7:7.) The law of ten commandments then, is the measure of the righteousness of God. Since it is the law of God, and is righteousness, it must be the righteousness of God. In fact, there really is no other righteousness. It is a written manifestation of the character and nature of God. God is also love, and Paul tells us that love is the fulfilling of the law. Thus if we are to seek God’s righteousness, then we are to seek obedience, through faith, to God’s law, by love. Thus rather than doing away with the law, (how can it be possible to do away with God’s righteousness?) through love we establish the law. All by faith. Not our righteousness, but God’s.
So Solomon was perfectly correct and agreed with the text of Matt 6:33 when he said:
“Let us hear the conclusion to the whole matter: fear God and keep His commandments; for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether they be good, or whether they be evil.” Eccl 12:13, 14.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Love God includes keeping His Sabbath Holy (minus following a bunch of stupid rules made up by men, like, "don't spit on dirt because making mud is work").
And it's a good idea to honor your mother and father. The rest can be summed up in loving your neighbor as yourself, but it's still not okay to murder anyone, to lie, or to steal, or covet, etc. Just to repeat, no, I am not SDA, not even close. Just taking the full 10 seriously.
civic
Well-known member
Where do the Apostles teach us to keep the sabbath ?
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Jesus kept the Sabbath. He broke man-made additions to the Sabbath, not the Sabbath itself.
And he said, Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
So if you want to be called least in the kingdom, by all means, teach people not to honor the Sabbath.
Jesus was born under the Law (Galatians 4:4).
Brakelite
Active member
Since when did God need to ask us twice to do anything? Oh, I know. Since we have indulged ourselves in memory loss.
Please don't say the Ten Commandments were only for Israel. That's like saying to your own father after he tells you to clean your room," oh, I thought you were talking to my sister".
Hebrews 8:13 teaches the Old Covenant (all of it) has been abrogated.
The Mosaic Law is how the Apostles knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), the Mosaic Law includes the command to keep the Sabbath holy, and the Apostles encouraged us to repent from our sins. Jesus also set a singles example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and the Apostles encouraged us to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). In Colossians 2:16, Paul encouraged the Colossians not to let anyone judge the for keeping the Sabbath and other holy days. In Acts 15:21, they expected that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey the Mosaic Law by hearing Moses taught every Sabbath in the synagogues. In 1 Peter 1:16, we are instructed to have be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3). In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are included as part of God's chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are terms uses to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have the privilege of getting to obey the instructions that God gave to Israel for how to fulfill those roles, and there would be no point in a Gentile wanting to become part of a holy nation while wanting nothing to do with following God's instructions for how to live as part of a holy nation. The Sabbath is holy to God and what is holy to God should not be profaned by man, so we would still be obligated to keep the Sabbath holy even if God have never commanded anyone to do that.
Not one New Covenant command to obey the 7th day Old Covenant Sabbath command.
Indeed, Jesus was born under the Mosaic Law, so he was obligated to walk in obedience to it, and he was sinless, so he set a perfect example for us to follow of how to do that, including keeping the Sabbath holy, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6).
The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replace by the New Covenant if the New Covenant does everything that it does plus more, which is what it means to make someone obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). This is why the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6).
Only if you ignore them all. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, and in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the New Covenant involves the Spirit leading us to obey the Mosaic Law. Jesus was not in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, so we do not him to have repeated anything command in order for us to know that we should still obey the Father. Jesus would have still taught taught full obedience to the Mosaic Law by example even if he hadn't repeated any commands, and again we are told to follow his example, though Jesus also taught how to keep the Sabbath holy through his interactions with the Pharisees on the topic.. We can't follow Jesus by refusing to follow what he taught.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
^This. The fact that we are no longer under law just means keeping the law has nothing to do with salvation. But the Holy Spirit is working in us to wish to be obedient.
It was supposed to be, but Hebrews 8:13 teaches it has been abrogated.
Brakelite
Active member
The terms of God's covenant with man have never changed.
KJV Deuteronomy 6:4-18, 20-25
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
10 And it shall be, when the LORD thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst not,
11 And houses full of all good things, which thou filledst not, and wells digged, which thou diggedst not, vineyards and olive trees, which thou plantedst not; when thou shalt have eaten and be full;
12 Then beware lest thou forget the LORD, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
13 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.
16 Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.
17 Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.
18 And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of the LORD: that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest go in and possess the good land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers,
20 And when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What mean the testimonies, and the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD our God hath commanded you?
21 Then thou shalt say unto thy son, We were Pharaoh's bondmen in Egypt; and the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand:
22 And the LORD shewed signs and wonders, great and sore, upon Egypt, upon Pharaoh, and upon all his household, before our eyes:
23 And he brought us out from thence, that he might bring us in, to give us the land which he sware unto our fathers.
24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.
25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
We were Satan's bondmen in the world, and through grace and mercy God delivered us from the bondage of sin.
KJV Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
God has not changed. Nor has the criteria for living in His kingdom... Should we respect earthly governments to obey their laws and live in nations in peace, but search for reasons to ignore God's laws yet expect to live in His kingdom and think we would behave differently to Lucifer who did the same? Why do we condemn Lucifer for rebelling but think we can cast aside the same laws and expect to live?
Next time try not dodging Hebrews 8:13.
Brakelite
Active member
Not abrogated.
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away…
Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary…
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices…
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us…
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Hebrews 8:13; 9:1,9,11-12,15).
The Sanctuary service was no less salvation by grace than Calvary. It was the gospel for Israel...in type.
Once Jesus fulfilled this promise the representations were no longer needed. They were done away with at the cross:
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come (Colossians 2:14-17).
Included in the ceremonial law were many feast days and special holidays called sabbaths, where the people would perform certain rites to remind them of God’s mercy and provisions to them. These sabbaths are not the same as the Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment. For example, the Passover was celebrated in commemoration of the deliverance from Egypt. These feasts and ceremonies were no longer needed after Jesus’ death because we now have the cross to remind us of God’s great love and mercy.
The ceremonial law was the perfect way for Christ to demonstrate the plan of salvation to the Israelite people so that they could understand salvation by grace before He actually came and fulfilled this plan. The entire system with the sanctuary, sacrificial system, feast days, and priest’s garments, was a type in which Jesus was the antitype. Everything the Jews did pointed forward to the Messiah.
And so God’s covenant remains and lives as a witness today for us. Jesus was and is the promise and if we accept Him by faith we may have eternal life.
As noted above, the yearly feast days or annual Sabbaths of the ceremonial law were not the same as the weekly Sabbath. What you need to be asking is why.
Why were the Ten Commandments given?
Why were the ceremonial laws given?
First, the 10 were given as a standard of righteousness.
Second, the sanctuary services were given in order to provide a way of redemption as a result of transgressing the 10. The second law was a remedy for the transgression against the first.
How does it make any sense for the 4th Commandment to be placed among the remedy? Even the institution of the Sabbath which took place at creation, was established before sin. Therefore it could not be a part of the remedial process for sin.
You should not interpret Hebrews 8:13 in a way that contradicts Exodus 34:15-17 or Leviticus 24:8. In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts in accordance with Jeremiah 31:33, and Hebrews 8:13 again does not contradict this. Rather, Hebrews 8:13 speaks about the Mosaic Covenant becoming obsolete and something become obsolete when it is replaced by something that does everything that it does plus more, which is why the New Covenant involves following the Mosaic Law plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator.
You can play make believe with what the Greek word means if you want, but hopefully one day you may reach a point not to reason like a child.
