It is important, in my view, to consider ALL of the Christ's teaching in order to understand what HE wants us to understand.
Jesus Himself tells us who HE chooses.
John 6:
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, "except the Father which hath sent me draw him": and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. "Every man" therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, "ye have no life in you". 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Paul understood this Spiritual Truth.
Acts 20:
18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons, 19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews: 20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, "and" faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
And Jesus also taught the importance of repentance towards His Father.
Luke 13:
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, "ye shall all likewise perish".
In this way we can prove ourselves, if we are chosen by the Christ to Save or not.
Remember, according to this same Jesus, there are "Many" who call Him Lord, Lord, that preach they they have been chosen by Christ to Save, but Jesus Himself said HE doesn't know them. And this because they did not show repentance towards God, choosing instead to continue in transgressing God's Judgment, commandments and Statutes, AKA, "Work iniquity)
The Christ of us Christians says
“
I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (
Matthew 11:25).
And, the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “
Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (
Acts 11:18).
So, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God the Holy Spirit exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward).
Are you saying evidence by way of fruit of the Holy Spirit with your "
In this way we can prove ourselves, if we are chosen by the Christ to Save or not"?
Your last paragraph describes people like Nancy of the world (see the opening post of this thread).
But only those who are from the heart, repentant towards God, and who are Learned of the Father, and have eaten the Flesh of Christ and drank the Blood of Christ. Remember, not "everyone" who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
That's all about salvation, but people like Nancy of the world never get to salvation.
Man has the Free will to ignore the Christ's Words, or to believe them. He said, "
Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." When a man seeks God's Word to live by, he finds that he is in transgression. Through
God's Word, this man "learns", as Paul teaches, "
what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Rom. 12:1,2)
God sees the heart of this repentant man, who has become "Learned of the Father" and gives him to His Only Begotten Son, the Lord's Christ, for Saving. Jesus "chooses" to save all that the Father Gives Him, because HE came, not to do His own Will, but His Father's Will.
So it isn't a "Failure" on Christ's Part at all, according to all that is written.
Nowhere in Holy Scripture is it written "
Man has the Free will" "
to believe" "
Christ's Words"; in Truth (
John 14:6), image bearer of Christ will persons (
Romans 8:29) are found referred to inside of "
Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God" (
Matthew 4:4). You are gravely mistaken that free-will is in
Matthew 4:4 because obedience as fruit of the Holy Spirit "
Your souls having purified in the obedience of the Truth through the Spirit" (
1 Peter 1:22).
Did you know that the letter to Rome by Paul was written to
believers in Christ as per Paul’s salutation of “
to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ (
Romans 1:7.)?
Free-will does not make sense with
Romans 12:2 nor
Romans 12:1-2 because God alone transforms a human mind (think repentance) to think in a manner acceptable to God.
You are free to promote any philosophy you so desire, having been given the free will to do so by God. I disagree with this philosophy you are promoting, because it doesn't take into account ALL that Jesus taught concerning Atonement.
You are conflating salvation with atonement as shall be fully exposed in the next section. You are not understanding the full counsel of God.
I would agree that every man who chooses repentance toward God, and humbles himself to be learned of the Father, will be given by Him to Christ for saving. And Christ doesn't lose even one of these men.
Intertwined inside of your statements of "
it doesn't take into account ALL that Jesus taught concerning Atonement" (about atonement) and "
I would agree that every man who chooses repentance toward God" (about salvation, I don't know who you were agreeing with),
you detached atonement from salvation in your explanation, after which you left atonement as everyone everywhere in all time but you limited your focus down to only people who have salvation. You broke the classes of people about whom you were talking because when you changed your focus to salvation then you left Christ's atonement in a state of failure for people like "Nancy of the world".
You switched from atonement over to salvation, then you tried to use your wrongly shifted argument for salvation to address the specific point about atonement.
You believe that Christ's atonement applies to everybody everywhere in all time (the whole world) which means that you believe Christ atoned for people in hell. See the opening post in this thread.
I believe that Christ's atonement applies to only the people whom Christ chooses (the whole world) which means I believe Christ atoned exclusively to people Christ places in the Kingdom of Heaven.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world
(
1 John 2:2)
you did not choose Me, but I chose you
(
John 15:16)
I chose you out of the world
(
John 15:19, includes atonement)
The Word of God is Truth (
John 14:6).
In Christ,
Kermos
