Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[Runningman]

you probably do not realize that Jesus was here as a human, a man. This is perfectly fine to recognize that Jesus served while he was here. Do you have to keep overlooking details like this? the preaching does not have to speak of the deity of Christ since the issue in focus is on the people's repentance.

There is a timeline in the Bible. Peter and John showed that even after Jesus was resurrected and taken to heaven that they didn't believe Jesus is God, but still remembered him as a servant who was empowered and that kind of empowerment they requested for themselves. This runs entirely counter to the nonsense you keep pumping out on this board everyday. I'm going with what the disciples believed; they believed Jesus is a servant like David, not God incarnate, not God in the flesh, not currently God after ascension.

 

[Peterlag]

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one." 1 John 5:7
"God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Timothy 3:16
Wives are to be subservient to their husbands. Does that mean that they are not equal?
The body of Jesus is what was "begotten". It DID have a beginning in Mary's womb. The Spirit of Jesus, the Word of God, had no beginning and no end.
Just because Roman emperors enforced it doesn't mean that it was false. Yes, it was a sin on the part of the emperors, but the Trinity truth is not the cause of their sin.
The Trinity concept, not the title, was around ever since Jesus came on the scene. It was not suddenly invented in the 300's A.D.

By the way, the New World Translation is a fraud, so I wouldn't be pointing the finger at the Trinity truth, if I were you.

Two verses you mentioned...

1 Timothy 3:16 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. There are some Greek manuscripts that read, “God appeared in the flesh.” This reading of some Greek manuscripts has passed into some English versions, and the King James Version is one of them. Trinitarian scholars admit, however, that these Greek texts were altered by scribes in favor of the Trinitarian position. The reading of the earliest and best manuscripts is not “God” but rather “he who.” Almost all the modern versions have the verse as “the mystery of godliness is great, which was manifest in the flesh,” or some close equivalent.

And concerning 1 John 5:7-8 where it has the words "In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth" are words that are not found in any Greek Manuscript before the 15th or 16th century and in no ancient Version. - E. W. Bullinger., A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament: (London: Samuel Bagster & Sons, 1975), p. 11 of Appendix A.

The trinitarian has only 3 to pick from...

1.) Use a verse from a bad translation.
2.) Use a verse that is taken out of context.
3.) Not understand how the words were used in the culture they were written in.

And basically that's all trinitarians have. And I mean 100 percent of what they have. They have nothing else.

 

[mikesw]

There is a timeline in the Bible. Peter and John showed that even after Jesus was resurrected and taken to heaven that they didn't believe Jesus is God, but still remembered him as a servant who was empowered and that kind of empowerment they requested for themselves. This runs entirely counter to the nonsense you keep pumping out on this board everyday. I'm going with what the disciples believed; they believed Jesus is a servant like David, not God incarnate, not God in the flesh, not currently God after ascension.

i guess you want to say that John wrote as a prophet and did not know he shared the logos as deity and the One who became flesh. He did this as an elaboration and correction of Philo and Greek philosophy that recognized sort of a co-creator with God.. But that must have been without him realizing what he was actually saying -- if I understand your confused point. Scripture is not for the faint of heart. You also reject that Paul used the deity of Christ as the recognized knowledge held by the Galatians when he mentions Gal 3:19-20. It is not the humanity of Jesus that is an issue. The denial of the preexistence passages and deity passages is your dominant errors.

 

[Runningman]

i guess you want to say that John wrote as a prophet and did not know he shared the logos as deity and the One who became flesh. He did this as an elaboration and correction of Philo and Greek philosophy that recognized sort of a co-creator with God.. But that must have been without him realizing what he was actually saying -- if I understand your confused point. Scripture is not for the faint of heart. You also reject that Paul used the deity of Christ as the recognized knowledge held by the Galatians when he mentions Gal 3:19-20. It is not the humanity of Jesus that is an issue. The denial of the preexistence passages and deity passages is your dominant errors.

John didn't ever indicate he believed Jesus is God incarnate. You misunderstand his other writings. If John believed in Jesus the way you say, you have contradicted his beliefs in Acts 4 and 1 John 1:1-3. Jesus as "the Word made flesh" is better understood as a creation and the Word is itself a thing; John identified the Word as eternal life. Something Jesus had and revealed to others because eternal life was granted to Jesus by God.

John 5
26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.

 

[Runningman]

Two verses you mentioned...

1 Timothy 3:16 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. There are some Greek manuscripts that read, “God appeared in the flesh.” This reading of some Greek manuscripts has passed into some English versions, and the King James Version is one of them. Trinitarian scholars admit, however, that these Greek texts were altered by scribes in favor of the Trinitarian position. The reading of the earliest and best manuscripts is not “God” but rather “he who.” Almost all the modern versions have the verse as “the mystery of godliness is great, which was manifest in the flesh,” or some close equivalent.

And concerning 1 John 5:7-8 where it has the words "In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth" are words that are not found in any Greek Manuscript before the 15th or 16th century and in no ancient Version. - E. W. Bullinger., A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament: (London: Samuel Bagster & Sons, 1975), p. 11 of Appendix A.

The trinitarian has only 3 to pick from...

1.) Use a verse from a bad translation.
2.) Use a verse that is taken out of context.
3.) Not understand how the words were used in the culture they were written in.

And basically that's all trinitarians have. And I mean 100 percent of what they have. They have nothing else.

1 Timothy 3:16 was one of the more reckless alterations perpetuated by trinitarians. They did not read the context before penning this in: "God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit,"

In their haste, they essentially made it says that God was judged by the Spirit (also God) and found innocent. It's unthinkable that God would need to be brought under judgement, but that is what the trinitarian alteration of 1 Timothy 3:16 requires.

 

[mikesw]

John didn't ever indicate he believed Jesus is God incarnate. You misunderstand his other writings. If John believed in Jesus the way you say, you have contradicted his beliefs in Acts 4 and 1 John 1:1-3. Jesus as "the Word made flesh" is better understood as a creation and the Word is itself a thing; John identified the Word as eternal life. Something Jesus had and revealed to others because eternal life was granted to Jesus by God.

John 5
26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.

when there is something that seems to be contradictory, it has to be resolved rather than erasing the testimony of scripture. throw away your eraser.