Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[Peterlag]

And it John 14:17, John is referring to the Helper. The Helper is the Spirit of Truth. The Helper is not just gifts and knowledge, but God who lives within us.
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, so that He may be with you forever; 17 the Helper is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him; but you know Him because He remains with you and will be in you."
What does it mean "another" Helper? Jesus is leaving them, and He has been with them and helping them learn and grow. "Another" refers to someone (not something) else that will come and live with them and in them (and with and in us who are in Christ).

The spirit is an "it" and so is the "logos"

 

[Peterlag]

Are there devil spirits behind the Trinity?

1 John 4:1-6
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

• Prophets have spirit. They are not just smart people be they good or evil.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

• It says spirit. It does not say humans.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

• It says "spirit" and that "it" should come.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

• Overcome them seems to mean to overcome the devil spirits.

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

• Devil spirits are of the world and they do answer to him who is the god of this world.

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

• The spirit of truth and the spirit of error. Look at the whole context. It's not referring to humans who are just ignorant of the Scriptures. This is a deception whereby men and women (many who are on all these sites) spin and twist and attack Christians personally with nasty little cunning digs.

 

[Doug Brents]

The spirit is an "it" and so is the "logos"

So you say, but I just disproved that theory.

 

[Peterlag]

So you say, but I just disproved that theory.

Saying you disagree with me is not disproving what I said.

 

[Doug Brents]

Saying you disagree with me is not disproving what I said.

The disproof was in post #1001, not in #1003. Prove that the Holy Spirit of God is an "it". You cannot do it when God Himself calls the Holy Spirit a "He".

 

[Runningman]

Saying you disagree with me is not disproving what I said.

That's the mistake trinitarians seem to make a lot. A reply, a disagreement, or an argument is not the same thing as disproving Scripture's explicit statements about the Father's exclusive deity. The reason these kind of debates have never ended since trinitarianism was created in the 4th century is because Scripture is still there refuting it.

 

[synergy]

"The Word became flesh" is still there. Became means be brought to pass, happen. No matter how you attempt to argue around it, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place with John 1:14. Since flesh is a creation of various compounds and elements, then either the Word became flesh and you accept a created god (idolatry) in your religion or the Word didn't become flesh and you have to reject what the Bible says. I think the route you are trying to unsuccessfully take is, rather than outright deny what John 1:14 says, you are instead trying to change it and disguise it as religious. You're distorting what John 1:14 because the Word being flesh is a stumbling block to your theology.

Concerning John 1:14, we believe in the tabernacled Word (Jesus) who was God (John 1:1) and always will be God. Your God has convinced you to deny those basic Bible truths.

Romans 1
25They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

That's exactly what you're doing when you deny that the Word, who was God, tabernacled as Jesus. You're serving your imagined god who fooled you into not believing the Bible. Carry on with your heresies and fairy tales....

 

[synergy]

He seems to be equating this with modualism/oneness heresy, as if Jesus being God in human flesh was Just God, so no longer was in heaven at that time

@Runningman has been taken captive by hundreds if not thousands of heretical beliefs and falsehoods. Maybe one day he will be convinced of the truth.

 

[Runningman]

Concerning John 1:14, we believe in the tabernacled Word (Jesus) who was God (John 1:1) and always will be God. Your God has convinced you to deny those basic Bible truths.

That's exactly what you're doing when you deny that the Word, who was God, tabernacled as Jesus. You're serving your imagined god who fooled you into not believing the Bible. Carry on with your heresies and fairy tales....

"The Word became flesh" does not have anything to do with an incarnation, a word which is not even found in the Bible, an idea not found in Jewish-Christian theology and beliefs anywhere in the Bible. "Became" refers to a creation, a changing of state. Did you know that flesh is a creation according to the Bible? God is not flesh, but you are saying that God became flesh, thus it would mean God is flesh, thus it would require God to become an idol. Creations are not the Creator. Make sense?

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman has been taken captive by hundreds if not thousands of heretical beliefs and falsehoods. Maybe one day he will be convinced of the truth.

Now that we have proven that the "Word became flesh" refers to a creation, how do you suppose God is flesh if God is not a creation? If God is flesh, then is that idolatry in your views? Yes or no please.

 

[Peterlag]

The disproof was in post #1001, not in #1003. Prove that the Holy Spirit of God is an "it". You cannot do it when God Himself calls the Holy Spirit a "He".

The spirit inside me is an it. I do not have another person in me. I have an it in me.

 

[Peterlag]

The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17).

But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time.

 

[Capbook]

The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17).

But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time.

Your son Peterlag is your heir, do that mean you two are not one and the same in the nature of man?
As the Father as the giver and Jesus received, it does not constitute that they cannot be of the same God's nature.

Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

 

[Doug Brents]

The spirit inside me is an it. I do not have another person in me. I have an it in me.

Is Satan an "it"?

 

[Runningman]

Your son Peterlag is your heir, do that mean you two are not one and the same in the nature of man?
As the Father as the giver and Jesus received, it does not constitute that they cannot be of the same God's nature.

Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

One cannot be the owner and an heir of the same things they own, that's the point.

 

[JesusFan]

"The Word became flesh" does not have anything to do with an incarnation, a word which is not even found in the Bible, an idea not found in Jewish-Christian theology and beliefs anywhere in the Bible. "Became" refers to a creation, a changing of state. Did you know that flesh is a creation according to the Bible? God is not flesh, but you are saying that God became flesh, thus it would mean God is flesh, thus it would require God to become an idol. Creations are not the Creator. Make sense?

Did not the OT prophecy though that the Messiah would come in Human flesh, so why would it be wrong for God to be clothedd in Human Flesh?
"A body you have prepared for me" is a phrase in Hebrews 10:5 (NKJV/KJV), where the author quotes Christ speaking to God, highlighting that God prepared a physical body for Jesus (the incarnation) as a perfect, final sacrifice, replacing Old Testament animal sacrifices that were insufficient.

• Source: This phrase is quoted from the Septuagint (Greek) translation of Psalm 40:6-8.

 

[JesusFan]

And it John 14:17, John is referring to the Helper. The Helper is the Spirit of Truth. The Helper is not just gifts and knowledge, but God who lives within us.
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, so that He may be with you forever; 17 the Helper is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him; but you know Him because He remains with you and will be in you."
What does it mean "another" Helper? Jesus is leaving them, and He has been with them and helping them learn and grow. "Another" refers to someone (not something) else that will come and live with them and in them (and with and in us who are in Christ).

The Greek text is even mor pronounced, as Jesus was telling them that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter to come , and will be another as Jesus is, but not Jesus,and shall live within them

 

[Peterlag]

Is Satan an "it"?

If you have a devil spirit in you like many people also have. Then that spirit is an it. It is not a female or a male and it is not another one of you or now that means there's two of you. Spirits are its.

Now there are two ways that the word "spirit" is used in the Bible and you are confessed because you will not understand that.

 

[mikesw]

If you have a devil spirit in you like many people also have. Then that spirit is an it. It is not a female or a male and it is not another one of you or now that means there's two of you. Spirits are its.

Now there are two ways that the word "spirit" is used in the Bible and you are confessed because you will not understand that.

this "argument" sounds like blasphemy of the Spirit being evidenced. Perhaps this post is not at that level since it is only a claim against a post by a Christian, but the post is then too close to verging on blasphemy.

 

[Peterlag]

Your son Peterlag is your heir, do that mean you two are not one and the same in the nature of man?
As the Father as the giver and Jesus received, it does not constitute that they cannot be of the same God's nature.

Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Where does Mary fit into to this? Is she God too?