ChatGTP's list of attributes

[Cyrus]

Jhn_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

J.

I'm glad we are believers. You know why you are a believer and why you stopped being a unbeliever.

What does John 3:36 mean?​

36 And he who believes in (has faith in, clings to, relies on) the Son has (now possesses) eternal life. But whoever disobeys (is unbelieving toward, refuses to trust in, disregards, is not subject to) the Son will never see (experience) life, but [instead] the wrath of God abides on him. [God’s displeasure remains on him; His indignation hangs over him continually.]


John 3:16 is frequently used as a one-sentence summary of the entire gospel. The idea that God loved us deeply, and expressed that love by sending Christ for us, is the central theme of Christianity. However, verses such as this one and John 3:18 are also critical.

There are only two options in eternity (Revelation 20:11). Those who turn to Christ in faith will have "eternal life" and find forgiveness for sin. Those who do not will face judgment. No one is neutral, and no one is exempt. Salvation through Jesus Christ is not an upgrade, but a rescue from disaster.

This salvation is through Jesus, and Jesus alone (John 14:6); ignoring it means facing the wrath of God. This verse is the only time John, the apostle, uses the term "wrath" outside of the book of Revelation. The Greek term is orgē, and in this context, it refers to the righteous anger of a judge issuing punishment for a crime. This concept is seen often in Revelation (Revelation 6:16–17; 19:15), and in Paul's explanation of God in the book of Romans (Romans 3:5; 4:15; 5:9; 12:19).

All translations of this verse imply that rejection of Christ is a deliberate action. The original Greek word, apeithōn, means "rejecting belief," "refusing obedience," or "refusing to be convinced." Belief—faith—is contrasted with disobedience. This is the same idea explained elsewhere in the Bible (John 3:18–19; Romans 1:20; 3:11). God wants people to be saved (2 Peter 3:9), not destroyed (Ezekiel 18:23). So, He makes Himself visible enough to encourage people to seek Him (Psalm 19:1). Yet He remains hidden enough that those who want to make excuses can do so (2 Peter 3:3–5; Romans 1:28).

An eternity of separation from God is a horrifying thought. And yet, ultimately, those who die estranged from God are those who want to be separated from Him (Jeremiah 29:13; Acts 17:27)

 

[Johann]

I'm glad we are believers. You know why you are a believer and why you stopped being a unbeliever.

What does John 3:36 mean?​

36 And he who believes in (has faith in, clings to, relies on) the Son has (now possesses) eternal life. But whoever disobeys (is unbelieving toward, refuses to trust in, disregards, is not subject to) the Son will never see (experience) life, but [instead] the wrath of God abides on him. [God’s displeasure remains on him; His indignation hangs over him continually.]


John 3:16 is frequently used as a one-sentence summary of the entire gospel. The idea that God loved us deeply, and expressed that love by sending Christ for us, is the central theme of Christianity. However, verses such as this one and John 3:18 are also critical.

There are only two options in eternity (Revelation 20:11). Those who turn to Christ in faith will have "eternal life" and find forgiveness for sin. Those who do not will face judgment. No one is neutral, and no one is exempt. Salvation through Jesus Christ is not an upgrade, but a rescue from disaster.

This salvation is through Jesus, and Jesus alone (John 14:6); ignoring it means facing the wrath of God. This verse is the only time John, the apostle, uses the term "wrath" outside of the book of Revelation. The Greek term is orgē, and in this context, it refers to the righteous anger of a judge issuing punishment for a crime. This concept is seen often in Revelation (Revelation 6:16–17; 19:15), and in Paul's explanation of God in the book of Romans (Romans 3:5; 4:15; 5:9; 12:19).

All translations of this verse imply that rejection of Christ is a deliberate action. The original Greek word, apeithōn, means "rejecting belief," "refusing obedience," or "refusing to be convinced." Belief—faith—is contrasted with disobedience. This is the same idea explained elsewhere in the Bible (John 3:18–19; Romans 1:20; 3:11). God wants people to be saved (2 Peter 3:9), not destroyed (Ezekiel 18:23). So, He makes Himself visible enough to encourage people to seek Him (Psalm 19:1). Yet He remains hidden enough that those who want to make excuses can do so (2 Peter 3:3–5; Romans 1:28).

An eternity of separation from God is a horrifying thought. And yet, ultimately, those who die estranged from God are those who want to be separated from Him (Jeremiah 29:13; Acts 17:27)

BibleRef is an excellent tool. So is Utley @Cyrus.

J.

 

[mailmandan]

In regard to

I'm glad we are believers. You know why you are a believer and why you stopped being a unbeliever.

What does John 3:36 mean?​

36 And he who believes in (has faith in, clings to, relies on) the Son has (now possesses) eternal life. But whoever disobeys (is unbelieving toward, refuses to trust in, disregards, is not subject to) the Son will never see (experience) life, but [instead] the wrath of God abides on him. [God’s displeasure remains on him; His indignation hangs over him continually.]

John 3:16 is frequently used as a one-sentence summary of the entire gospel. The idea that God loved us deeply, and expressed that love by sending Christ for us, is the central theme of Christianity. However, verses such as this one and John 3:18 are also critical.

There are only two options in eternity (Revelation 20:11). Those who turn to Christ in faith will have "eternal life" and find forgiveness for sin. Those who do not will face judgment. No one is neutral, and no one is exempt. Salvation through Jesus Christ is not an upgrade, but a rescue from disaster.

This salvation is through Jesus, and Jesus alone (John 14:6); ignoring it means facing the wrath of God. This verse is the only time John, the apostle, uses the term "wrath" outside of the book of Revelation. The Greek term is orgē, and in this context, it refers to the righteous anger of a judge issuing punishment for a crime. This concept is seen often in Revelation (Revelation 6:16–17; 19:15), and in Paul's explanation of God in the book of Romans (Romans 3:5; 4:15; 5:9; 12:19).

All translations of this verse imply that rejection of Christ is a deliberate action. The original Greek word, apeithōn, means "rejecting belief," "refusing obedience," or "refusing to be convinced." Belief—faith—is contrasted with disobedience. This is the same idea explained elsewhere in the Bible (John 3:18–19; Romans 1:20; 3:11). God wants people to be saved (2 Peter 3:9), not destroyed (Ezekiel 18:23). So, He makes Himself visible enough to encourage people to seek Him (Psalm 19:1). Yet He remains hidden enough that those who want to make excuses can do so (2 Peter 3:3–5; Romans 1:28).

An eternity of separation from God is a horrifying thought. And yet, ultimately, those who die estranged from God are those who want to be separated from Him (Jeremiah 29:13; Acts 17:27)

Yes, in John 3:36, we obey the Son by choosing to believe in Him. The KJV renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

 

[civic]

In regard to


Yes, in John 3:36, we obey the Son by choosing to believe in Him. The KJV renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

Excellent thanks brother !

 

[Johann]

In regard to


Yes, in John 3:36, we obey the Son by choosing to believe in Him. The KJV renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

100% correct @mailmandan.

J.

 

[mailmandan]

100% correct @mailmandan.

J.

Sadly, I often hear folks who promote salvation by works twist John 3:36 in the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved "by" obedience/works which "follow" believing. Now if John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. The HCSB translation sums it up very nicely. John 3:36 - The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

 

[Johann]

Sadly, I often hear folks who promote salvation by works twist John 3:36 in the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved "by" obedience/works which "follow" believing. Now if John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. The HCSB translation sums it up very nicely. John 3:36 - The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

So we are NOT to obey the Imperatives of Christ Jesus after out born from above experience? Is this what you are saying?

@mailmandan

J.

 

[mailmandan]

So we are NOT to obey the Imperatives of Christ Jesus after out born from above experience? Is this what you are saying?

@mailmandan

J.

No. I'm simply saying the act of obedience that saves is choosing to believe in the Son. (John 3:15,16,18,36) I'm not removing obeying the imperatives of Christ Jesus from the Christian life after becoming born again. I'm simply placing them in their proper place. Subsequent to regeneration and salvation. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

 

[Johann]

No. I'm simply saying the act of obedience that saves is choosing to believe in the Son. (John 3:15,16,18,36) I'm not removing obeying the imperatives of Christ Jesus from the Christian life after becoming born again. I'm simply placing them in their proper place. Subsequent to regeneration and salvation. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Absolutely correct brother--my computer is very, very slow on this forum.

J.

 

[GodsGrace]

Don't get the one from England, they only use the King James Version. It will make your device freeze up.

Pretty funny Liz!
When I was first converted I couldn't use the KJV even though I love how poetic is sounds.
I felt like I had to TRANSLATE it first, and then UNDERSTAND it.
No can do.
It was making my BRAIN freeze up!

 

[GodsGrace]

No. I'm simply saying the act of obedience that saves is choosing to believe in the Son. (John 3:15,16,18,36) I'm not removing obeying the imperatives of Christ Jesus from the Christian life after becoming born again. I'm simply placing them in their proper place. Subsequent to regeneration and salvation. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

You simply love to remove the word OBEY even from John 3:36.

The proper place is this:

1. WE BELIEVE GOD EXISTS.
2. WE DECIDE WE WISH TO FOLLOW HIM.
3. WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS.

You dislike the word OBEY .....
You call it "works salvation".

I like to call it:
Obeying God.

 

[GodsGrace]

So we are NOT to obey the Imperatives of Christ Jesus after out born from above experience? Is this what you are saying?

@mailmandan

J.

Pretty much what the other member believes.

Christianity has been watered down to this level....
John 3:36 is debated because of the word OBEY in part b.
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Unfortunately for those that think it's not really necessary to obey God,
as long as we just believe in Him....
changing the word OBEY in part b to NOT BELIEVE has exactly the same meaning in the Greek....

To NOT BELIEVE in Greek
means to NOT OBEY.

 

[Johann]

Pretty much what the other member believes.

Christianity has been watered down to this level....
John 3:36 is debated because of the word OBEY in part b.
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Unfortunately for those that think it's not really necessary to obey God,
as long as we just believe in Him....
changing the word OBEY in part b to NOT BELIEVE has exactly the same meaning in the Greek....

To NOT BELIEVE in Greek
means to NOT OBEY.

We are on the same page, including @mailmandan.

J.

 

[GodsGrace]

We are on the same page, including @mailmandan.

J.

No Johann.
I've been debating Dan for 10 years now.
He does not believe as you and I do.
He just speaks as if he does.
He believes in Faith Alone,,,as calvinists do.
But he's not a calvinist.




Sorry, I spoke about you...
so....@mailmandan

 

[mailmandan]

You simply love to remove the word OBEY even from John 3:36.

The proper place is this:

1. WE BELIEVE GOD EXISTS.
2. WE DECIDE WE WISH TO FOLLOW HIM.
3. WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS.

You dislike the word OBEY .....
You call it "works salvation".

I like to call it:
Obeying God.

I have not removed the word OBEY from John 3:36 in the NASB and I don't dislike the word OBEY either. That is a straw man argument. Obey His commands (1 John 2:3) is what believers do AFTER they obey the Son by choosing to believe in the Son unto salvation in John 3:36.

It's only works salvation when you conflate obey the Son by choosing to believe in the Son unto salvation in John 3:36 (also see John 3:15,16,18) with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" believing in the Son unto salvation then making those works the basis or means by which you receive eternal life.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have not removed the word OBEY from John 3:36 in the NASB and I don't dislike the word OBEY either. That is a straw man argument. Obey His commands (1 John 2:3) is what believers do AFTER they obey the Son by choosing to believe in the Son unto salvation in John 3:36.

It's only works salvation when you conflate obey the Son by choosing to believe in the Son unto salvation in John 3:36 (also see John 3:15,16,18) with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" believing in the Son unto salvation then making those works the basis or means by which you receive eternal life.

For the one millionth time Dan....
We're discussing AFTER salvation.

YOU call obedience a works salvation.

Yes....we are required to acts of obedience/works which FOLLOW believing in the Son...
YES

THESE works/obedience is the MEANS by which we receive eternal life.

because

If we do not OBEY the Son....
we are NOT BELIEVING in the Son.

To NOT BELIEVE
and
To NOT OBEY

in the Greek you so love...
means EXACTLY THE SAME.

You teach Faith Only...
and idea that came about after the reformation....
it does not exist in the NT teachings of Jesus or any of the writers.

Faith alone is a dead faith.
Faith alone is useless.
Faith without works is a useless faith.
Faith without works is a dead faith.

A dead faith is NOT SALVIFIC.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have not removed the word OBEY from John 3:36 in the NASB and I don't dislike the word OBEY either. That is a straw man argument. Obey His commands (1 John 2:3) is what believers do AFTER they obey the Son by choosing to believe in the Son unto salvation in John 3:36.

It's only works salvation when you conflate obey the Son by choosing to believe in the Son unto salvation in John 3:36 (also see John 3:15,16,18) with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" believing in the Son unto salvation then making those works the basis or means by which you receive eternal life.

PS
And if you like the word OBEY in John 3:36 WHY do you keep showing how other versions use the word NOT BELIEVE???

Which is the same, of course as previously explained.

 

[mailmandan]

For the one millionth time Dan....
We're discussing AFTER salvation.

John is not talking about after salvation and we are not saved by obedience/works AFTER salvation.

YOU call obedience a works salvation.

Obedience which follows saving belief/faith in Christ is works and we are saved through belief/faith, not works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Yes....we are required to acts of obedience/works which FOLLOW believing in the Son...
YES

Required BECAUSE we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

THESE works/obedience is the MEANS by which we receive eternal life.

FALSE. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5)

because

If we do not OBEY the Son....
we are NOT BELIEVING in the Son.

We obey the Son by choosing to believe in the Son in John 3:36 just like we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel in Romans 10:16.

To NOT BELIEVE
and
To NOT OBEY

John 3:36 - The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him. (HCSB)

in the Greek you so love...
means EXACTLY THE SAME.

So, according to you, believe, obey and love are all synonymous? Do you even make a distinction at all between faith and works?

You teach Faith Only...
and idea that came about after the reformation....
it does not exist in the NT teachings of Jesus or any of the writers.

I teach salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation from scripture. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Not to be confused with "faith only" per James 2:24 which is an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone "barren of works." Learn the difference.

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Faith alone is a dead faith.
Faith alone is useless.
Faith without works is a useless faith.
Faith without works is a dead faith.

A dead faith is NOT SALVIFIC.

Faith that remains alone "barren of works" is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. Says/claims (key word) to have faith but has no works. (James 2:14)

In regard faith without works is dead," James does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree.

James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) Simple!

 

[mailmandan]

PS
And if you like the word OBEY in John 3:36 WHY do you keep showing how other versions use the word NOT BELIEVE???

Which is the same, of course as previously explained.

I'm simply showing you that the one who does not obey the Son is the one who refuses to believe in the Son in John 3:36. You are focused on obedience/works which "follow" believing in the Son which culminates in works salvation. You already gave yourself away when you previously said - THESE works/obedience is the MEANS by which we receive eternal life.

 

[ProDeo]

I have not removed the word OBEY from John 3:36 in the NASB and I don't dislike the word OBEY either. That is a straw man argument. Obey His commands (1 John 2:3) is what believers do AFTER they obey the Son by choosing to believe in the Son unto salvation in John 3:36.

It's only works salvation when you conflate obey the Son by choosing to believe in the Son unto salvation in John 3:36 (also see John 3:15,16,18) with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" believing in the Son unto salvation then making those works the basis or means by which you receive eternal life.

In general and please correct me if I am wrong, once you are born again, one is a new creation and the new nature wants to please God and no longer has the desire to sin, instead the new nature automatically starts to work on itself, these are works also, producing fruits.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

In this way there is no conflict with James.