Calling on the Name of The Lord

[Tranquil]

One cant call upon the name of the Lord unless they are spiritually alive to God first. David said Ps 80:18

18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

And this is from a man who already believed in God

A backslidden man

That's a completely different subject. Take a look at the whole thing
PSALM 80

To the Chief Musician; [set to the tune of] “Lilies, a Testimony.” A Psalm of Asaph.

GIVE EAR, O Shepherd of Israel, You Who lead Joseph like a flock; You Who sit enthroned upon the cherubim [of the ark of the covenant], shine forth
2 Before Ephraim and Benjamin and Manasseh! Stir up Your might, and come to save us!
3 Restore us again, O God; and cause Your face to shine [in pleasure and approval on us], and we shall be saved!
4 O Lord God of hosts, how long will You be angry with Your people’s prayers?
5 You have fed them with the bread of tears, and You have given them tears to drink in large measure.
6 You make us a strife and scorn to our neighbors, and our enemies laugh among themselves.
7 Restore us again, O God of hosts; and cause Your face to shine [upon us with favor as of old], and we shall be saved!
8 You brought a vine [Israel] out of Egypt; You drove out the [heathen] nations and planted it [in Canaan].
9 You prepared room before it, and it took deep root and it filled the land.
10 The mountains were covered with the shadow of it, and the boughs of it were like the great cedars [cedars of God].
11 [Israel] sent out its boughs to the [Mediterranean] Sea and its branches to the [Euphrates] River. [I Kings 4:21.]
12 Why have You broken down its hedges and walls so that all who pass by pluck from its fruit?
13 The boar out of the wood wastes it and the wild beast of the field feeds on it.
14 Turn again, we beseech You, O God of hosts! Look down from heaven and see, visit, and have regard for this vine!
15 [Protect and maintain] the stock which Your right hand planted, and the branch (the son) that You have reared and made strong for Yourself.
16 They have burned it with fire, it is cut down; may they perish at the rebuke of Your countenance.
17 Let Your hand be upon the man of Your right hand, upon the son of man whom You have made strong for Yourself.
18 Then will we not depart from You; revive us (give us life) and we will call upon Your name.
19 Restore us, O Lord God of hosts; cause Your face to shine [in pleasure, approval, and favor on us], and we shall be saved!

 

[Doug Brents]

There is more than one call. Faith is a life. Lifelong relationship. We cry "Abba Father".

I agree totally. But I believe that the heart of this topic of conversation, and correct me if I am wrong @Richard, is the calling on the name of the Lord that leads to the initial point of salvation.
I believe wholeheartedly that the calling on the name of the Lord must continue throughout the rest of a person's life, and that we must endure to the end to receive our crown of righteousness. But what I am talking about is when does that relationship begin.

 

[Richard]

Some people read this as "spiritual" baptism, but 1 Pet 3:21 makes it clear that the baptism that saves is in water, and Col 2:11-14 make it clear that it is the Holy Spirit that is the active ingredient in baptism that removes our sin and unites us with Jesus' death and resurrection.

I believe that a lot of people want to take one verse here, and another there, and make them the sole reference of their doctrine. But if any passage speaks to a particular topic, then that passage must be included in your doctrine on that topic.
For instance: John 3:16 only says that we need to believe to be saved.
But Rom 10:9-10 says that we must believe and confess Jesus as Lord.
And then Acts 3:19 only says that we must repent to be forgiven (saved).
But then Acts 2:38 says repent and be baptized to receive forgiveness.
So which is it? I believe that all of them must be included, because none of those passages is more "truth" than any of the others, and if we exclude any of them, then we have ignored part of the Word of God that is important to the topic we are considering.

If He is not your Lord then He cannot be your savior.

I know exactly what you're saying and I was thinking the same thing myself. I've always been taught that if you're studying a certain verse in the Bible that you should read the whole chapter plus the preceding chapter and the next chapter. I found that really helpful studying the book of Romans.

 

[Fred]

Col 2:11-14 make it clear that it is the Holy Spirit that is the active ingredient in baptism that removes our sin and unites us with Jesus' death and resurrection.

The baptism with the Holy Spirit. Water baptism followed regeneration (cf. Acts 10:48).

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/all-believers-are-baptized-into-the-body-of-christ.507/#post-10544

 

[Doug Brents]

The baptism with the Holy Spirit. Water baptism followed regeneration (cf. Acts 10:48).

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/all-believers-are-baptized-into-the-body-of-christ.507/#post-10544

You continue to beat the dead horse, but your idea does not fit with other Scripture.

 

[Fred]

You continue to beat the dead horse, but your idea does not fit with other Scripture.

Proof?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I agree totally. But I believe that the heart of this topic of conversation, and correct me if I am wrong @Richard, is the calling on the name of the Lord that leads to the initial point of salvation.
I believe wholeheartedly that the calling on the name of the Lord must continue throughout the rest of a person's life, and that we must endure to the end to receive our crown of righteousness. But what I am talking about is when does that relationship begin.

Agreed. I believe some theologians fail to recognize the the extensions of the calls. Just recognizing that distinction.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It leaves everyone out thats not born again.

No. It leaves you out prior to hearing the preacher.

 

[brightfame52]

A backslidden man

That's a completely different subject. Take a look at the whole thing
PSALM 80

To the Chief Musician; [set to the tune of] “Lilies, a Testimony.” A Psalm of Asaph.

GIVE EAR, O Shepherd of Israel, You Who lead Joseph like a flock; You Who sit enthroned upon the cherubim [of the ark of the covenant], shine forth
2 Before Ephraim and Benjamin and Manasseh! Stir up Your might, and come to save us!
3 Restore us again, O God; and cause Your face to shine [in pleasure and approval on us], and we shall be saved!
4 O Lord God of hosts, how long will You be angry with Your people’s prayers?
5 You have fed them with the bread of tears, and You have given them tears to drink in large measure.
6 You make us a strife and scorn to our neighbors, and our enemies laugh among themselves.
7 Restore us again, O God of hosts; and cause Your face to shine [upon us with favor as of old], and we shall be saved!
8 You brought a vine [Israel] out of Egypt; You drove out the [heathen] nations and planted it [in Canaan].
9 You prepared room before it, and it took deep root and it filled the land.
10 The mountains were covered with the shadow of it, and the boughs of it were like the great cedars [cedars of God].
11 [Israel] sent out its boughs to the [Mediterranean] Sea and its branches to the [Euphrates] River. [I Kings 4:21.]
12 Why have You broken down its hedges and walls so that all who pass by pluck from its fruit?
13 The boar out of the wood wastes it and the wild beast of the field feeds on it.
14 Turn again, we beseech You, O God of hosts! Look down from heaven and see, visit, and have regard for this vine!
15 [Protect and maintain] the stock which Your right hand planted, and the branch (the son) that You have reared and made strong for Yourself.
16 They have burned it with fire, it is cut down; may they perish at the rebuke of Your countenance.
17 Let Your hand be upon the man of Your right hand, upon the son of man whom You have made strong for Yourself.
18 Then will we not depart from You; revive us (give us life) and we will call upon Your name.
19 Restore us, O Lord God of hosts; cause Your face to shine [in pleasure, approval, and favor on us], and we shall be saved!

So what hope does a lost dead sinner have to call upon the Name of the Lord, if a backslidden believer needs to be quickened first ? Again before a person can call upon the name of the Lord they need to be in a spiritually saved state already.

 

[brightfame52]

No. It leaves you out prior to hearing the preacher.

It leaves every unregenerate out , me , you anybody else !

 

[Fred]

Acts 2:21
Whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved.

Does the calling precede salvation?

 

[Tranquil]

So what hope does a lost dead sinner have to call upon the Name of the Lord, if a backslidden believer needs to be quickened first ? Again before a person can call upon the name of the Lord they need to be in a spiritually saved state already.

I think this post explains that.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/calling-on-the-name-of-the-lord.1258/post-47060

 

[Tranquil]

I found this and it explains it.

Some believe regeneration to be the act of God awakening spiritual life within us, bringing us from spiritual death to spiritual life. On this definition, it is natural to understand that regeneration comes before saving faith. . . . However, when we say that it comes ‘before’ saving faith . . . they usually come so close together that it will ordinarily seem to us that they are happening at the same time. As God addresses the effective call of the gospel to us, he regenerates us and we respond in faith and repentance to this call.

Comparing Biblical Extensivism and Calvinism’s Exclusivism

 

[brightfame52]

I think this post explains that.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/calling-on-the-name-of-the-lord.1258/post-47060

If it aint about the dead first being made alive prior to calling on the name of the lord, its error. One has to be saved to call on the name of the Lord. He has to be able to spiritually hear too. For Faith comes by hearing [spiritually], so the spiritually dead cant even hear

 

[brightfame52]

I found this and it explains it.

Some believe regeneration to be the act of God awakening spiritual life within us, bringing us from spiritual death to spiritual life. On this definition, it is natural to understand that regeneration comes before saving faith. . . . However, when we say that it comes ‘before’ saving faith . . . they usually come so close together that it will ordinarily seem to us that they are happening at the same time. As God addresses the effective call of the gospel to us, he regenerates us and we respond in faith and repentance to this call.

Comparing Biblical Extensivism and Calvinism’s Exclusivism

Regeneration is a creative act, its a new creation, a new life, and its imperative before any spiritual action can be done.

 

[Doug Brents]

Proof?

Already given, but you have your mind set on your preconception, and won't accept what Scripture says. So I see no point in arguing with you.

 

[Doug Brents]

So what hope does a lost dead sinner have to call upon the Name of the Lord, if a backslidden believer needs to be quickened first ? Again before a person can call upon the name of the Lord they need to be in a spiritually saved state already.

When Jesus was lifted up (on the cross when He died), He called/drew everyone to Himself, therefore all have been called, and given the opportunity and ability to seek Him and find Him (John 12:32).

 

[Fred]

Already given, but you have your mind set on your preconception, and won't accept what Scripture says. So I see no point in arguing with you.

Yeah, I remember.
Your denial of what the words of the Bible mean was your downfall.

Still is.

 

[Tranquil]

Regeneration is a creative act, its a new creation, a new life, and its imperative before any spiritual action can be done.

Regeneration is the work of God through the Holy Spirit within a person who has “saving faith,” in which a new nature is given that makes the person capable of accepting the gospel.

Saving faith comes first.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yeah, I remember.
Your denial of what the words of the Bible mean was your downfall.

Still is.

Fred, you still want to put your interpretation of one verse over the explicit statements made in many other passages. Your insistence on puting your preconception ahead of what Scripture says is your downfall.