Arminian perspective on Gods Sovereignty and mans free will

[brightfame52]

Here are even more verses that prove that the unsaved have the ability to believe in Jesus when presented with the word of Faith.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Rom 10:8-9)

Did it say they had the ability to believe in Jesus ? Jesus declares no man has the ability to believe in Him, to come to Him Jn 6:44

 

[MTMattie]

Good. The left eye was done.
I could see much better !
My brother and wife are coming over for a couple of weeks to visit.
As soon as he leaves, the right eye will be done.
Thanks for asking!


And yes, we do get tired of explaining the same verses over and over.

That is because we keep responding to the same copy and pasted replies.

All that would be needed is for a reformed believer to ask why the they don't understand verses the same way
every other belief system does.

Guess that would be too easy!

 

[civic]

Me too. I believe in PSA.
@Dizerner
Isaiah 53:4-11 (NKJV) 4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. 5 But He [was] wounded for our transgressions, [He was] bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace [was] upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. 9 And they made His grave with the wicked-- But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor [was any] deceit in His mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put [Him] to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see [His] seed, He shall prolong [His] days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand. 11 He shall see the labor of His soul, [and] be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.

This is why I do not and its this study which led me out of calvinism. see below the link for the thread on the forum.

Thread 'The Nature of God in the Atonement'

Jul 13, 2023

Link removed and posted below.

The above is to long to post here it would be 5/6 separate posts. I might break it up in sections below.

• civic
• Replies: 361
• Forum: Penal Substitutionary Atonement

• 

 

[brightfame52]

UNDERSTANDING JOHN 6:44

Actually I wanted to make this post my first new thread but I could not find how to do that.

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. -- John 6:44

Written to and about the unbelieving Jews of His time.

Imagine if you were a believing Jew in His time in love with the law of Moses.

And then there comes a man who calls Himself the Son of God, who forgives sins, who said -- I and the Father are One --, someone who puts your world upside down.

Are you 100% sure you would not pick up stones? Because that's what the Law of Moses ordered.

So yes, special revelation from God was needed to believe in Jesus was the promised Messiah, reading a few verses further we see the evidence and answer :

John 6:60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?”
John 6:61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this?

John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you [v44] that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
John 6:66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.
John 6:67 So Jesus said to the Twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?”
John 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life,
John 6:69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

I am not raised as an orthodox Jew, I was raised with the Bible. No problem with Jesus. However for orthodox Jews Jesus is a major obstacle. And the words of Paul 2000 years later are still true -

2Cor 3:13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end.
2Cor 3:14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
2Cor 3:15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.
2Cor 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.

Fast forwarding ~1500 years to the reformation, John 6:44 has split Christianity into 2 camps, Calvinism, people being unable to come to Christ versus :

Jesus - As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience.

Paul - So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Jesus once again - Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.” Matt 9:37-38

Millions of hearts are ready to receive, they only need to hear the Word.

Either one is true and my view is that there is no Calvinism in John 6. Being born as a religious orthodox Jew is a major obstacle to accept Christ, as it was to those lived in His time He was among us.

We (non orthodox Jews) don't have this problem.

Anyone who has a problem with Jesus needs special revelation from the Lord. The most known example in Scripture, Saul becoming Paul on his way to Damascus.

Show one scripture that says man has the ability to believe in Jesus, Jesus says man doesnt have the ability Jn 6:44

 

[civic]

You are bearing false witness as usual

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Your verse simply shows man needed to hear from God

Having heard man can believe

Romans 10:17 (NASB95) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

yes his verse is removed from the biblical narrative, isolated and misused.

 

[brightfame52]

I showed many you will not address

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

You did not address this

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Was no man capable of believing Moses

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

The woman believed and men believed because they believed the woman

You did not address this or the question

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony

You did not address this



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Another verse you did not address

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.

Men were persuaded and believed based on the persuasion of Paul.

You do not address this



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

again you do not address

Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient



John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John holds

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

You disbelieve his scripture

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

again scripture contradicts you

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

reading is shown to be sufficient for belief.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?

Miracles have power to bring about faith

again you just ignore


John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?


This you never address



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

No answer

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

no response from your


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.


These men heard and believed

Your verse simply shows man needed to hear from God

Having heard man can believe

Romans 10:17 (NASB95) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Here we are told how faith can arise.

As always, you just ignore truth.

Show one verse that says man has the ability to believe ? Jesus emphatically stated man cannot believe in Him Jn 6:44,65

 

[brightfame52]

Absolutely correct.

And at that... the one verse he is stuck on does not even say what he is repeating and repeating and repeating.

John 6:65 says @brightfame52 ... And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

This says bnot one word about anyone's ability to believe in Jesus. Jesus said they dont Jn 6:65

Jesus said they dont Jn 6:65 ???????????????????????????????

No, He does not say that.

YOU need to find another scripture that specifically says that or just move on.

I dont know what you talking about. Please show a scripture that says men have the ability to believe in Jesus

 

[GodsGrace]

That is because we keep responding to the same copy and pasted replies.

Yes, MT, I have noticed the copying and pasting.
This is why the verses he posts make no sense most of the time.
I like to speak to the members here....each conversation is personal and should be treated
as such...
(I mean personal in the sense of speaking directly to one member...
NOT that other members cannot join in.)

 

[civic]

Honestly, I’m worn out from showing them these verses that clearly demonstrate synergistic human volition. I keep getting told that I’m being too technical, too grammatical, and that I’m not making sense... so I think I’ll just leave it for now.

How was your trip to the doctor sorella?

Johann.

Yes synergism is seen from Genesis - Revelation. God placed conditions on man with the expectation of our volition/ wills with His command to obey.

 

[civic]

These were for our good.

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbor’s."

 

[GodsGrace]

I dont know what you talking about. Please show a scripture that says men have the ability to believe in Jesus

You can't be serious?!!!!

You can't be asking @MTMattie the above question after A PAGE FULL of veses that state we can
SEEK GOD
OPEN THE DOOR TO JESUS

Need more?

Here's more:

Romans 10:10
10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
One is saved by believing with the heart.
NOT because God predestined him to believe.


John 20:30-31
30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.


The gospel was written so that we may believe.
And that by BELIEVING we may have life.

NOT because God predestined someone to believe.

 

[GodsGrace]

These were for our good.

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbor’s."

Great point civic....


One I also make a times.
IF God predestinates everything about man...
his salvation and every movement of his...

Then WHY would the 10 commandments be necessary?
They wouldn't!

But God gave us the moral law so that we may follow it and please Him.
WE must FOLLOW it.....
Synergism.

Every relationship is a two-way street...

 

[civic]

Great point civic....


One I also make a times.
IF God predestinates everything about man...
his salvation and every movement of his...

Then WHY would the 10 commandments be necessary?
They wouldn't!

But God gave us the moral law so that we may follow it and please Him.
WE must FOLLOW it.....
Synergism.

Every relationship is a two-way street...

ditto the reformed view of Sovereignty is twisted where God even controls your sinful thoughts, actions, deeds.

 

[GodsGrace]

ditto the reformed view of Sovereignty is twisted where God even controls your sinful thoughts, actions, deeds.

Right!
Calvin did teach this and many top Reformed/Calvinists of today also teach this.

But it's a hard pill to swallow....
so the Confessions will state that although God PREDESTINATES EVERYTHING....
He is not the cause of evil.
A blatant conflict.

(at least the Confessions I'm familiar with).

 

[civic]

Right!
Calvin did teach this and many top Reformed/Calvinists of today also teach this.

But it's a hard pill to swallow....
so the Confessions will state that although God PREDESTINATES EVERYTHING....
He is not the cause of evil.
A blatant conflict.

(at least the Confessions I'm familiar with).

God either controls everything or He doesn't. Its doublespeak with them. They plea "secondary" causes it to happen as if it gets God off the hook. Cause is cause regardless of primary or secondary. It still points back to the source lol. They wan't to have their cake and eat it too but as you know it doesn't pass the smell test, the truth test.

 

[synergy]

Did it say they had the ability to believe in Jesus ?

Yes. Read verse 9. It talks about both confessing and believing Jesus.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Rom 10:8-9)

Jesus declares no man has the ability to believe in Him, to come to Him Jn 6:44

Jesus doesn't stop with John 6:44. He also says the following in John 12:32:

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

You continue to live in OT times. There exists 2000 years of history that you need to catch up on. So everyone is now (since the Cross) offered the ability to believe in Jesus because he draws all, no exceptions.

 

[MTMattie]

Show one scripture that says man has the ability to believe in Jesus, Jesus says man doesnt have the ability Jn 6:44

 

[Johann]

Yes. Read verse 9. It talks about both confessing and believing Jesus.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Rom 10:8-9)

Jesus doesn't stop with John 6:44. He also says the following in John 12:32:

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

You continue to live in OT times. There exists 2000 years of history that you need to catch up on. So everyone is now (since the Cross) offered the ability to believe in Jesus because he draws all, no exceptions.

Yup, time for him to read the Pauline epistles, RIGHTLY cutting straight the Scriptures.

J.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes. Read verse 9. It talks about both confessing and believing Jesus.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Rom 10:8-9)

Jesus doesn't stop with John 6:44. He also says the following in John 12:32:

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

You continue to live in OT times. There exists 2000 years of history that you need to catch up on. So everyone is now (since the Cross) offered the ability to believe in Jesus because he draws all, no exceptions.

Not one of those scriptures say man has the ability to believe in Jesus, it would contradict Jesus own words Jn 6:44

 

[brightfame52]

View attachment 1919

I thought so !