Arminian perspective on Gods Sovereignty and mans free will

[MTMattie]

Show one scripture that says man has the ability to believe in Jesus, Jesus says man doesnt have the ability Jn 6:44

John 6:44 does not say that

New International Version
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

New Living Translation
For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up.

English Standard Version
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Berean Standard Bible
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Berean Literal Bible
No one is able to come to Me unless the Father, the one having sent Me, draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

King James Bible
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

New King James Version
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

New American Standard Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

NASB 1995
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

NASB 1977
“No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Legacy Standard Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Amplified Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.

Christian Standard Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.

American Standard Version
No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Contemporary English Version
No one can come to me, unless the Father who sent me makes them want to come. But if they do come, I will raise them to life on the last day.

English Revised Version
No man can come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
People cannot come to me unless the Father who sent me brings them to me. I will bring these people back to life on the last day.

Good News Translation
People cannot come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me; and I will raise them to life on the last day.

International Standard Version
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him to life on the last day.

NET Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

New Heart English Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

Webster's Bible Translation
No man can come to me, except the Father who hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Weymouth New Testament
"no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; then I will raise him to life on the last day.
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

World English Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up in the last day.
Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
no one is able to come to Me if the Father who sent Me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;

Berean Literal Bible
No one is able to come to Me unless the Father, the one having sent Me, draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

Young's Literal Translation
no one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;

Smith's Literal Translation
None can come to me, except the Father having sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day.

Catholic Public Domain Version
No one is able to come to me, unless the Father, who has sent me, has drawn him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

New American Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day.

New Revised Standard Version
No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me; and I will raise that person up on the last day.
Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
No man can come to me, except the Father who sent me draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“No man can come to me, unless The Father who has sent me will draw him, and I shall raise him in the last day.”
NT Translations
Anderson New Testament
no man can come to me, unless the Father, who sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Godbey New Testament
No one is able to come unto me, unless the Father who sent me may draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Haweis New Testament
No man can come to me, except the Father who hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Mace New Testament
no man can come to me, except the father who hath sent me, conduct him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Weymouth New Testament
"no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; then I will raise him to life on the last day.

Worrell New Testament
No one can come to Me, unless the Father Who sent Me draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Worsley New Testament
No one can come to me, unless the Father, who hath sent me, draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[civic]

Heck! You're stuck on ONE verse and you want to build your whole theology on ONE verse!

J.

Yep

 

[civic]

John 6:44 does not say that

New International Version
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

New Living Translation
For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up.

English Standard Version
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Berean Standard Bible
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Berean Literal Bible
No one is able to come to Me unless the Father, the one having sent Me, draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

King James Bible
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

New King James Version
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

New American Standard Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

NASB 1995
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

NASB 1977
“No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Legacy Standard Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Amplified Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.

Christian Standard Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.

American Standard Version
No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Contemporary English Version
No one can come to me, unless the Father who sent me makes them want to come. But if they do come, I will raise them to life on the last day.

English Revised Version
No man can come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
People cannot come to me unless the Father who sent me brings them to me. I will bring these people back to life on the last day.

Good News Translation
People cannot come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me; and I will raise them to life on the last day.

International Standard Version
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him to life on the last day.

NET Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

New Heart English Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

Webster's Bible Translation
No man can come to me, except the Father who hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Weymouth New Testament
"no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; then I will raise him to life on the last day.
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

World English Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up in the last day.
Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
no one is able to come to Me if the Father who sent Me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;

Berean Literal Bible
No one is able to come to Me unless the Father, the one having sent Me, draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

Young's Literal Translation
no one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;

Smith's Literal Translation
None can come to me, except the Father having sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day.

Catholic Public Domain Version
No one is able to come to me, unless the Father, who has sent me, has drawn him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

New American Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day.

New Revised Standard Version
No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me; and I will raise that person up on the last day.
Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
No man can come to me, except the Father who sent me draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“No man can come to me, unless The Father who has sent me will draw him, and I shall raise him in the last day.”
NT Translations
Anderson New Testament
no man can come to me, unless the Father, who sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Godbey New Testament
No one is able to come unto me, unless the Father who sent me may draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Haweis New Testament
No man can come to me, except the Father who hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Mace New Testament
no man can come to me, except the father who hath sent me, conduct him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Weymouth New Testament
"no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; then I will raise him to life on the last day.

Worrell New Testament
No one can come to Me, unless the Father Who sent Me draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Worsley New Testament
No one can come to me, unless the Father, who hath sent me, draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ditto

 

[GodsGrace]

1974

!!
About '74....can't remember exactly.
Maybe a year earlier.

 

[GodsGrace]

Heck! You're stuck on ONE verse and you want to build your whole theology on ONE verse!

J.

And @brightfame52 is not the only one.
We have another member here who uses John 6:44 for everything.

And he also believes man is not able to seek God.
Even though there are tens of verses that state that God commands man to seek Him....

 

[brightfame52]

Heck! You're stuck on ONE verse and you want to build your whole theology on ONE verse!

J.

One verse is enough !

 

[brightfame52]

John 6:44 does not say that

New International Version
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

New Living Translation
For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up.

English Standard Version
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Berean Standard Bible
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Berean Literal Bible
No one is able to come to Me unless the Father, the one having sent Me, draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

King James Bible
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

New King James Version
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

New American Standard Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

NASB 1995
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

NASB 1977
“No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Legacy Standard Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Amplified Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.

Christian Standard Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.

American Standard Version
No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Contemporary English Version
No one can come to me, unless the Father who sent me makes them want to come. But if they do come, I will raise them to life on the last day.

English Revised Version
No man can come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
People cannot come to me unless the Father who sent me brings them to me. I will bring these people back to life on the last day.

Good News Translation
People cannot come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me; and I will raise them to life on the last day.

International Standard Version
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him to life on the last day.

NET Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

New Heart English Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

Webster's Bible Translation
No man can come to me, except the Father who hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Weymouth New Testament
"no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; then I will raise him to life on the last day.
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

World English Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up in the last day.
Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
no one is able to come to Me if the Father who sent Me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;

Berean Literal Bible
No one is able to come to Me unless the Father, the one having sent Me, draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

Young's Literal Translation
no one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;

Smith's Literal Translation
None can come to me, except the Father having sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day.

Catholic Public Domain Version
No one is able to come to me, unless the Father, who has sent me, has drawn him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

New American Bible
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day.

New Revised Standard Version
No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me; and I will raise that person up on the last day.
Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
No man can come to me, except the Father who sent me draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“No man can come to me, unless The Father who has sent me will draw him, and I shall raise him in the last day.”
NT Translations
Anderson New Testament
no man can come to me, unless the Father, who sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Godbey New Testament
No one is able to come unto me, unless the Father who sent me may draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Haweis New Testament
No man can come to me, except the Father who hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Mace New Testament
no man can come to me, except the father who hath sent me, conduct him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Weymouth New Testament
"no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; then I will raise him to life on the last day.

Worrell New Testament
No one can come to Me, unless the Father Who sent Me draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Worsley New Testament
No one can come to me, unless the Father, who hath sent me, draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Show one verse that says man has the ability to believe in Jesus, for Jesus said man doesnt have that ability Jn 6:44. The word come means, to believe

 

[Selah]

@civic

There’s something going on here that isn’t right, an irreverence for the Word of God—and I’m sure it hurts our Father in heaven very much. As we argue a man-made theology called Calvinism, we are now beginning to abuse and trample God's Holy Word. Even I am accused of being a Calvinist if I use specific scriptures that are obviously contained in the Bible if they also happen to be some of the same scriptures that Calvinists use. The Bible, which is God's Word, existed long before this man-created Calvinistic theology. All of God’s Word is true, and there’s much we don’t understand. Let’s be careful to not become irreverent in the process of debating and instead pray for understanding because it must hurt our Father a lot. …Selah

 

[GodsGrace]

Show one scripture that says man has the ability to believe in Jesus, Jesus says man doesnt have the ability Jn 6:44

I've posted tens of verses BF.....
you just can't seem to believe what scripture states.


Here's another one....
Jesus knocks and asks IF anyone wants to open the door:


Revelation 3.20
20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.


Notice:
Jesus stands at the door and knocks.
HE doesn't open the door.


Jesus says that if someone hears His voice...
AND OPENS THE DOOR....IOW....WE must open the door, of our own free will.


THEN Jesus will come in and dine with us.....live with us.


Of OUR OWN FREE WILL....
man has the ABILITY to open the door.

 

[Selah]

And the one who was seeking a healing foer her daughter... Jesus almost was not gonna help her.

He was all about the lost sheep.... Sooooooooooo...

Would that not have been something.... The Father drew her but Jesus delayed or simply did not do?

Ouch

 

[GodsGrace]

@civic

There’s something going on here that isn’t right, an irreverence for the Word of God—and I’m sure it hurts our Father in heaven very much. As we argue a man-made theology called Calvinism, we are now beginning to abuse and trample God's Holy Word. Even I am accused of being a Calvinist if I use specific scriptures that are obviously contained in the Bible if they also happen to be some of the same scriptures that Calvinists use. The Bible, which is God's Word, existed long before this man-created Calvinistic theology. All of God’s Word is true, and there’s much we don’t understand. Let’s be careful to not become irreverent in the process of debating and instead pray for understanding because it must hurt our Father a lot. …Selah

I have to agree.
I've always said that Calvinism changes the character of God.
It's actually blasphemous....
and speaking up against it seems perfectly fine to me,....
it might save someone from this fatalistic belief system.

 

[GodsGrace]

One verse is enough !

LOL
One verse does not doctrine make.

And if THAT is what you believe...
WHY don't you believe the following...

which state that man IS ABLE to seek God...
and COMMANDED to:

Matthew 6:33​

But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

​

​

Hebrews 11:6​

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

​

​

1 Chronicles 16:11​

Seek the Lord and his strength; seek his presence continually!

​

Jeremiah 29:13​

You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

​

Deuteronomy 4:29​

But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.

​

Matthew 7:7-8​

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

Isaiah 55:6-7​

“Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Lamentations 3:25​

The Lord is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him.

Matthew 7:7​

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

James 4:8​

Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Acts 17:27​

That they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,

​

 

[TomL]

You havent showed one verse that says man has the abilty to believe on Jesus, yet I have showed you n 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This means no man has the ability to come to Jesus Christ, and come here is the equivalent to believe. See here in Vs 35

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

You are bearing false witness as usual

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Your verse simply shows man needed to hear from God

Having heard man can believe

Romans 10:17 (NASB95) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

 

[TomL]

Since you are so enamored by John, and avoid the rest of the Holy scriptures....

Explain this one from John that certainly tells us that the Father God did not draw those people to belief.

John 11:41-44
So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me.”

People were watching and Jesus had to show them who he was. God the Father did not draw them to Jesus. They had to decide for themsellves.

Yes good proof. Seeing Christ raise Lazarus was sufficient for men to believe.

John 11:38–44 (LEB) — 38 Then Jesus, deeply moved within himself again, came to the tomb. Now it was a cave, and a stone was lying on it. 39 Jesus said, “Take away the stone.” Martha, the sister of the one who had died, said to him, “Lord, he is stinking already, because it has been four days.” 40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?” 41 So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes above and said, “Father, I give thanks to you that you hear me. 42 And I know that you always hear me, but for the sake of the crowd standing around I said it, so that they may believe that you sent me.” 43 And when he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The one who had died came out, his feet and his hands bound with strips of cloth, and his face wrapped with a facecloth. Jesus said to them, “Untie him and let him go.”

But he will not address it

 

[Johann]

And @brightfame52 is not the only one.
We have another member here who uses John 6:44 for everything.

And he also believes man is not able to seek God.
Even though there are tens of verses that state that God commands man to seek Him....

Honestly, I’m worn out from showing them these verses that clearly demonstrate synergistic human volition. I keep getting told that I’m being too technical, too grammatical, and that I’m not making sense... so I think I’ll just leave it for now.

How was your trip to the doctor sorella?

Johann.

 

[brightfame52]

You are bearing false witness as usual

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Your verse simply shows man needed to hear from God

Having heard man can believe

Romans 10:17 (NASB95) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Show one verse that says man has the ability to believe ? Jesus emphatically stated man cannot believe in Him Jn 6:44,65

And I told you already the stony ground believer in the narrative is a false believer, man can believe falsely, but thats not believing in Jesus for salvation. Be advised 99% of religion today believes in a false christ, that is not believing in Jesus

 

[Johann]

Show one verse that says man has the ability to believe ? Jesus emphatically stated man cannot believe in Him Jn 6:44,65

And I told you already the stony ground believer in the narrative is a false believer, man can believe falsely, but thats not believing in Jesus for salvation. Be advised 99% of religion today believes in a false christ, that is not believing in Jesus

What about the three "other/under grounds?"

J.

 

[brightfame52]

What about the three "other/under grounds?"

J.

Did it say they had the ability to believe in Jesus ?

 

[Johann]

Did it say they had the ability to believe in Jesus ?

Friend, everyone has the ability/exousia TO believe, even the unregenerate have the ability TO believe, but since you are stuck on ONE verse, this discussion is not edifying nor helpful.

Shalom

J.

 

[brightfame52]

Friend, everyone has the ability/exousia TO believe, even the unregenerate have the ability TO believe, but since you are stuck on ONE verse, this discussion is not edifying nor helpful.

Shalom

J.

You boldly contradict Jesus own words, Jn 6:44,65