civic
Active Member
Yawn
Another former Calvinist Sam Shamoun
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Rockson
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So let's look at this verse and see what it's saying and what it's not saying.
“For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done. Acts 4:28
So what's it saying and not saying. It's not saying it even had to be done by men doing so showing evil intent. What was the thing that was determined? That Christ would die as a substitute. Could it have been played out any other way? Sure, I believe so. If they would have receive Christ AS JESUS SAID WAS THE FATHERS WILL to gather them but they were not willing if they would have chosen to do that which they could have....that is received him.....there would have just been an agreement between the Priests and Christ that he needed to die as a substitute. Now that may sound strange to you but not to one who believes Jesus was sincere and truthful when saying he would have gathered them.
There's so much you Calvinists are not considering. Seeing they didn't allow themselves to be gathered and held fast to their evil ways of thinking all Jesus did was position himself in places and positions where they could take him. God did NOT HAVE to put anything in them by ordaining them to do this evil. They of their own choice wanted to murder him. So conclusion and point....God did not impart any evil intent within any of those who crucified him. They did that and employed that all themselves.
Actually what was planned and determined to take place and I quote, "whatever your hand and your purpose DETERMINED TO BE DONE."
THAT IS WHAT WAS DETERMINED.
Actually read the verse instead of trying to spin it to your liking.
Your best reply so far. LOL Keep up the good work
Acts 2:23 (NASB 2020) — 23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
Don't leave out the fact of foreknowledge and the fact nothing states God gave the Jews their desire to kill Christ
No one said He did. Nothing to do with Acts 4:27,28
That is absurd.
No one can claim Acts 2:23 has nothing to do with Acts 4:27,28
BTW if he didn't then compatibilism is disproven
civic
Active Member
Ya think lol
yep
Never made that claim. Referring to desire.
Planned. Determined, brought about by His hand
You do understand if you are going to argue for compatibilism you must hold God determined the Jews desire to kill Christ
And I do but in this discussion I never made that claim.
I will simply remind you God moves the heart where He wishes it to go.
We do not read God determines all the desires of man
We do read where He moves the heart where He wishes it to go. We do read He replaces the heart of stone changing your desires.
Actually we do not read God moves the heart of all
and those who have their heart changed are those who choose to believe
civic
Active Member
civic
Active Member
Proverbs 21:1- The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
Ezra 6:22
For seven days they kept the Feast of Unleavened Bread with joy, because the LORD had made them joyful and turned the heart of the king of Assyria toward them to strengthen their hands in the work on the house of the God of Israel.
Is it every king, all kings ? no
We do not read because you believed God changes your heart. Ezekiel says just the opposite. Your heart must be changed to obey and when you do obey God is the cause.
So it's only kings? Show us
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