An honest inquiry into the nature of Christology by a Trinitarian

[DavidTree]

Sad change of subject.

It's as if your mind goes into a mantra to avoid the cognitive dissonance.

(BTW, no translation refers to Jesus as capital-LORD.)

Whether to obey the LORD or not is the SUBJECT MATTER of the ENTIRE Scriptures.

Nor am I really. I guess my point is from the text alone the other poster certainly cannot declare he wasn't and be so dogmatic about it. Not saying this about that other poster but many times when people impose a meaning on say passage A , not totally warranted they usually connect to it B, C, and D some doctrine or way of thinking they want to establish. Good to point out A doesn't necessarily declare what they're saying and that they need to demonstrate that it does.

Each one of you are IMPOSING that Adam was present when the Scripture does not include Adam until AFTER Eve ate of the fruit.

Now if you harden your hearts, then in FACT you impose upon Scripture what it did not say and then you falsely accuse others who believe every word of God = same thing the pharisees did = impose their words upon God's words OR they would reject the very words of God.

Follow the Commandment of the LORD: "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

How can you possibly understand correctly if you ADD or take away from God's words even a jot or a tittle?

 

[civic]

Absolutely, and I consider this the single most difficult verse to deal with, so it is very perceptive and thoughtful of you to point it out.

I would have to point out—that you notice that "yesterday" is a set time in the past, not infinite past.

If Paul (whom I think authored Hebrews), meant to say Jesus Christ has never experienced any change, he could find a better word than a limited finite "yesterday." Yesterday expresses a limited time in the past, a set time backwards—not infinite time.

Instead he could easily say, "Jesus Christ is the same from the foundations of the world," or "Jesus Christ is the same from all eternity," or "Jesus Christ is always the same from age to age."

Why the specific word "yesterday" which expresses limitation in its meaning?

So the change the Lord made to become one of us, is going to last into "forever," the eternity future, unlike some who say Jesus is no longer a human being now, when he has returned to his divine attributes.

I willl quote you in your own OP.

“I will up front confess that I completely and firmly hold to the idea of revelation alone, and that conversely the mind or logic, however you may understand that, must be insufficient for understanding spiritual truths.”

so maybe it’s your mind and understanding that’s flawed and the greatest minds/ theologians in church history got it right. Just a thought you might consider

hope this helps !!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

Whether to obey the LORD or not is the SUBJECT MATTER of the ENTIRE Scriptures.


Each one of you are IMPOSING that Adam was present when the Scripture does not include Adam until AFTER Eve ate of the fruit.

Now if you harden your hearts, then in FACT you impose upon Scripture what it did not say and then you falsely accuse others who believe every word of God = same thing the pharisees did = impose their words upon God's words OR they would reject the very words of God.

Follow the Commandment of the LORD: "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

How can you possibly understand correctly if you ADD or take away from God's words even a jot or a tittle?

"jot or title" all about Christ.

 

[DavidTree]

I willl quote you in your own OP.

“I will up front confess that I completely and firmly hold to the idea of revelation alone, and that conversely the mind or logic, however you may understand that, must be insufficient for understanding spiritual truths.”

so maybe it’s your mind and understanding that’s flawed and the greatest minds/ theologians in church history got it right. Just a thought you might consider

hope this helps !!!

Did you add some crushed red pepper in your coffee this morning? - lol

 

[praise_yeshua]

Did you add some crushed red pepper in your coffee this morning? - lol

May I ask for a summary of what you're arguing? I admit, I'm lost in this. I've read a few pages back and still don't understand.

Thanks

 

[praise_yeshua]

I willl quote you in your own OP.

“I will up front confess that I completely and firmly hold to the idea of revelation alone, and that conversely the mind or logic, however you may understand that, must be insufficient for understanding spiritual truths.”

so maybe it’s your mind and understanding that’s flawed and the greatest minds/ theologians in church history got it right. Just a thought you might consider

hope this helps !!!

To me, it is simple. Yesterday is a fixed quantity. All things before now. Not sure exactly what anyone is trying to prove here...

 

[DavidTree]

"jot or title" all about Christ.

Christ is the WORD = It is all about HIM in HIS WORD therefore 'hands OFF'

"Whoever works on the sabbath shall be put to death" = God says keep your sinful hands off My Sabbath Rest = which is CHRIST.

When we add or take away from God's words we commit SIN thru unbelief and/or pride = which leads to division.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. - Proverbs 30: 5-6

It does say "every word" does it not?

 

[civic]

Did you add some crushed red pepper in your coffee this morning? - lol

I’m in a hotel room no coffee yet. Training for 2 days on my new job. I get home this evening and I can’t wait to drink my home roasted coffee ️ tomorrow morning. They had burnt StarSucks yesterday, yuck

 

[DavidTree]

I’m in a hotel room no coffee yet. Training for 2 days on my new job. I get home this evening and I can’t wait to drink my home roasted coffee ️ tomorrow morning. They had burnt StarSucks yesterday, yuck

Have you noticed that starbucks has gone down the tubes just as Duncin Donuts did?

Here on the East Coast, 40 years ago DD was absolutely sublime and they made the donuts in shop and were delicious.

30 Years ago DD sold out to new owners and they cheapened everything = the donuts are shipped to each store pre-made crap.

SB started out great and now the coffee and service is just expensive crappolla.

GOOD NEWS - SB spurned on many small coffee shops that are offering better coffee.

 

[civic]

Have you noticed that starbucks has gone down th etubes just as Duncin Donuts did?

Here on the East Coast, 40 years ago DD was absolutely sublime and they made the donuts in shop and were delicious.

30 Years ago DD sold out to new owners and they cheapened everything = the donuts are shipped to each store pre-made crap.

SB started out great and now the coffee and service is just expensive crappolla.

Ditto

 

[DavidTree]

Ditto

If i had a Molecular Transference Device i would send you some fresh brewed coffee made from fresh roasted whole beans right now.

i tried spilling the coffee on the keyboard while typing in caps 'COFFEE' but it did not work.

 

[Rockson]

Each one of you are IMPOSING that Adam was present when the Scripture does not include Adam until AFTER Eve ate of the fruit.

David.....well never mind many might be tired of seeing this line of reasoning going on and on......but tell me is there something you might want to connect to what you believe about this that is because Adam wasn't there (in your opinion) that would mean this or that? What's your point in wanting to defend your view so strongly?

 

[DavidTree]

David.....well never mind many might be tired of seeing this line of reasoning going on and on......but tell me is there something you might want to connect to what you believe about this that is because Adam wasn't there (in your opinion) that would mean this or that? What's your point in wanting to defend your view so strongly?

Because it is not my view that matters but God's VIEW from Heaven to us down here.

How can we correctly/fully understand if we are willing to subvert God's words with even a comma!

Nicodemus (he who came to Jesus by night, being one of them) said to them,
“Does our law judge a man before it hears him and knows what he is doing?” - John 7:51

Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” - John 7:24

You shall not be partial in judgment. You shall hear the small and the great alike. You shall not be intimidated by anyone, for the judgment is God’s.
And the case that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me, and I will hear it.’ - Deuteronomy 1:17

 

[civic]

@civic @dizerner @Johann

"Today, I have begotten you".

This scripture proves that the WORD was not the Son in Eternity BEFORE Genesis.

"The WORD was Elohim" = this is our Beginning to understanding

In Heb 5:5 it means His earthly ministry as priest, His humanity. The other use is connected with His resurrection below in Acts 13. It’s not talking about an eternal begotten but begotten with His humanity.


And though they found in him no guilt worthy of death, they asked Pilate to have him executed. 29 And when they had carried out all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. 30 But God raised him from the dead, 31 and for many days he appeared to those who had come up with him from Galilee toJerusalem, who are now his witnesses to the people. 32 And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers, 33 this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm,

o“‘You are my Son,

today I have begotten you.’

34 And as for the fact that he raised himfrom the dead, pqno more to return tocorruption, he has spoken in this way,

“‘I will give you rthe holy and sureblessings of David.’

35 Therefore he says also in another psalm,

s“‘You will not let your Holy One see corruption.’

 

[Rockson]

Because it is not my view that matters but God's VIEW from Heaven to us down here.

How can we correctly/fully understand if we are willing to subvert God's words with even a comma!

OK then David I get your point and God Bless.

Oh and by the way in your last post you said you used to like DD donuts that is how they made them 30-40 years ago. I had a friend who was a baker there and I would go in on his midnight shift and be with him for number of hours as he was making them. I think I may have even helped him do a few things. Glad you found our products delicious. Lots of training went into just getting them just right!

 

[Wrangler]

Whether to obey the LORD or not is the SUBJECT MATTER of the ENTIRE Scriptures.

You do not even know who the LORD God is by name. It is YHWH, not Jesus. There are many lords in the Bible and Jesus is one of them.

All this is a distraction. Do you even recognize Jesus’ title <The Word of God> is NOT in John 1:1?

 

[DavidTree]

You do not even know who the LORD God is by name. It is YHWH, not Jesus. There are many lords in the Bible and Jesus is one of them.

All this is a distraction. Do you even recognize Jesus’ title <The Word of God> is NOT in John 1:1?

Correction - i BELIEVE my Heavenly FATHER who says:

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

You choose to reject the FATHER'S Word, the Lord Himself and the Commandments.

As you hold unto watchtower doctrine you remain in a state of unbelief as to the Will of God.

"yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist.
And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist."

 

[DavidTree]

Correction - i BELIEVE my Heavenly FATHER who says:

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

You choose to reject the FATHER'S Word, the Lord Himself and the Commandments.

As you hold unto watchtower doctrine you remain in a state of unbelief as to the Will of God.

"yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist.
And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist."

 

[DavidTree]

In Heb 5:5 it means His earthly ministry as priest, His humanity. The other use is connected with His resurrection below in Acts 13. It’s not talking about an eternal begotten but begotten with His humanity.


And though they found in him no guilt worthy of death, they asked Pilate to have him executed. 29 And when they had carried out all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. 30 But God raised him from the dead, 31 and for many days he appeared to those who had come up with him from Galilee toJerusalem, who are now his witnesses to the people. 32 And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers, 33 this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm,

o“‘You are my Son,

today I have begotten you.’

34 And as for the fact that he raised himfrom the dead, pqno more to return tocorruption, he has spoken in this way,

“‘I will give you rthe holy and sureblessings of David.’

35 Therefore he says also in another psalm,

s“‘You will not let your Holy One see corruption.’

100%

Most people struggle with this, as they do not decipher between the two.

Thus we have the LORD praying to His FATHER = "the Glory I had with You BEFORE the world began" - John 17:5

 

[praise_yeshua]

You do not even know who the LORD God is by name. It is YHWH, not Jesus. There are many lords in the Bible and Jesus is one of them.

All this is a distraction. Do you even recognize Jesus’ title <The Word of God> is NOT in John 1:1?

Jesus is more than just one of them. He is KING of kings and LORD of lords. Just wanted to remind you of your continued mistakes.