An Article on free will

[Johann]

How am I not allowing others to do the same?

Jim, you are not here to debate/discuss but to pontificate and philosophize.

Not being facetious.

J.

 

[Jim]

Faith is a gift because it's not within our power to produce it.
Grace is not within our power to produce...
neither is salvation....
and neither is faith....

We can only DESIRE these attributes.

That tells me that you don't really know what faith is. Faith is not an attribute. Faith is something we do. It is not simply intellectual assent. Is there anything else in the world that you believe in? Where did that come from?

 

[synergy]

Yes, the Parable of the Sower emphasizes the external preaching of the Word, but the Scriptures also make clear that without the internal work of the Holy Spirit, the seed cannot truly bear fruit. You seem to keep on avoiding the paradoxes brother. And like you, I choose my words carefully.

The Holy Spirit and His work seldom mentioned--

John 16:8–11 – The Spirit convicts the world
“And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.”
Greek: ἐλέγξει τὸν κόσμον – “He will convict/expose the world”
The Spirit initiates conviction, preparing the heart to recognize its need and respond in faith.

John 6:44 – No one comes unless drawn
“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him...”
Greek: ἑλκύσῃ – “draw,” not force, but to attract or pull.
This drawing is accomplished through the Spirit, as Jesus says in v.63:
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing...”

1 Corinthians 2:12–14 – Spiritual truth must be spiritually discerned
“Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things freely given to us of God...”
“The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God...”
The “natural man” (ψυχικὸς ἄνθρωπος) cannot grasp the things of God unless the Spirit enables understanding, including faith.

1 Thessalonians 1:5–6 – The gospel came in power and in the Holy Spirit
“Our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance…”
The Spirit’s presence confirmed and activated the Word in the hearers.

Titus 3:5–6 – Regeneration is by the Spirit
“He saved us… by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.”
Greek: ἀνακαινώσεως Πνεύματος Ἁγίου – “renewal of the Holy Spirit”
This is the inward new life that enables faith and repentance.

Romans 8:14–16 – The Spirit bears witness that we are children of God
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God… The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.”
The Spirit both leads and confirms faith, not only initiating salvation but assuring it.

So yes, preaching is essential—faith comes by hearing (Rom 10:17)—but hearing is not enough unless the Holy Spirit convicts, draws, renews, and reveals.

I’d like to bring the Holy Spirit into this conversation. If we’re asking whether faith is a gift, then we also need to ask-- when does synergism begin?

At what point in the process of salvation does human cooperation enter, and how does that relate to the Spirit’s role in drawing, convicting, and enabling faith?


It seems there’s a misunderstanding here.
You’re suggesting that synergism begins at the aorist point of salvation--but I would disagree.

I believe that moment marks monergism--where God alone acts to bring about new birth.

Only after that does synergism begin, when our will, now made alive, is fully yielded to the gracious will of Christ and the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. To obey the Imperatives of Christ Jesus.

Think it through--see if that distinction clarifies our difference.

Shalom to you and family.

PS-apologies for the Caps, letters too small on this forum.

Praise Abba for His word!

J.

Can faith (and salvation) start before one hears the Gospel?

 

[GodsGrace]

Is it me, or do you also find the letters too small @GodsGrace?

J.

It's not you!
The size of the letters is too small....both in the post and to our response.

So I highlight my responses and then use font size 18.
I've been doing this for a few days now.

I hope it looks OK.

I wish ALL the font sizing would be to 18...maybe I could bring this up to Admin?

 

[Jim]

Jim, you are not here to debate/discuss but to pontificate and philosophize.

And you think you are any different? That's a laugh!!

 

[Johann]

It's not you!
The size of the letters is too small....both in the post and to our response.

So I highlight my responses and then use font size 18.
I've been doing this for a few days now.

I hope it looks OK.

I wish ALL the font sizing would be to 18...maybe I could bring this up to Admin?

Please do, I also highlight the verses to 18 and it looks good.

J.

 

[GodsGrace]

That tells me that you don't really know what faith is. Faith is not an attribute. Faith is something we do. It is not simply intellectual assent. Is there anything else in the world that you believe in? Where did that come from?

Oh for goodness sake Jim!
Have you not read many of my posts.

FAITH is a noun.
BELIEF is a noun.
BELIEVE is a verb.

We put our faith INTO ACTION...
IT is not the action.

Do you believe in love?
Where does that come from?

but later....

 

[Jim]

Oh for goodness sake Jim!
Have you not read many of my posts.

FAITH is a noun.
BELIEF is a noun.
BELIEVE is a verb.

We put our faith INTO ACTION...
IT is not the action.

Do you believe in love?
Where does that come from?

but later....

There is a difference between believing someone and believing IN someone. Believing God is not faith. Believing in God is faith. That is a distinction found in the Bible.

 

[Johann]

Can faith (and salvation) start before one hears the Gospel?

That’s a clever move-πειράζων indeed---learn the difference.
but let’s be clear- I would never suggest that regeneration precedes faith.

Let’s not blur categories that Scripture keeps distinct.

J.

 

[Johann]

And you think you are any different? That's a laugh!!

Yep--and @synergy seems to be enjoying this.
Jim, you’re not really engaging with the questions being asked, so I’d appreciate it if you leave me out of this conversation.

J.

 

[synergy]

That’s a clever move-πειράζων indeed---learn the difference.
but let’s be clear- I would never suggest that regeneration precedes faith.

Let’s not blur categories that Scripture keeps distinct.

J.

So you're not willing to answer my question. Looks like you're the one "not here to debate/discuss but to pontificate and philosophize". Your own words come back to bite you.

 

[Johann]

So you're not willing to answer my question. Looks like you're the one "not here to debate/discuss but to pontificate and philosophize". Your own words come back to bite you.

--as you "bite" me behind my back to another member.

J.

 

[synergy]

--as you "bite" me behind my back to another member.

Behind your back? This is an open forum, if you haven't noticed already, where everyone can see everything that is written.

That's just sore grapes, on your part, for you being nailed for exactly that which you falsely accuse others of doing.

 

[civic]

Can faith (and salvation) start before one hears the Gospel?

NO the word is first followed by the conviction of sin/repentance which leads to the new birth and salvation. Peter spells this out in his epistle.

1 Peter 1:23- For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

James agrees

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

Paul agrees

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Ephesians 1:13
And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

And John


John 20:31
But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.

 

[Jim]

Yep--and @synergy seems to be enjoying this.
Jim, you’re not really engaging with the questions being asked, so I’d appreciate it if you leave me out of this conversation.

J.

You issue derogatory remarks about me personally and then asked to be left out of the conversation. That's a real hoot!!

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I'm sorry EG.
I don't understand your point.

the point is the faith was so small. You can not really call it a gift..

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You don't believe there are Imperatives in Scripture that MUST be obeyed?!

J.

to be saved?

Again I ask. do we do these works to be saved?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

One more word about Preachers that figure in our "initial salvation" before I answer your question.

In the Parable of the Sower (found in Matthew 13:1–23, Mark 4:1–20, and Luke 8:4–15), the Sower represents anyone who spreads the word of God. However, in its most direct and primary interpretation, the Sower is Jesus Himself, as He was the one preaching the good news of the Kingdom during His ministry.

Jesus explains that the "seed" is the word of God, and the different types of soil represent the hearts of those who hear it. So while Jesus is the ultimate Sower, anyone who shares the gospel—pastors, missionaries, believers—also takes on the role of a sower, planting God’s word in others.

what do you mean by initial salvation?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Of course one can know he is saved.

yes we can

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

If we do not know we will live forever. We have no hope.. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. so in reality, we would have no faith

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Can faith (and salvation) start before one hears the Gospel?

no

faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word