A question just to start things off.

Gen 8:20-21 - here atonement in the Hebrew means to appease or pacify
1 John 2:2 Related to propitiation which in the Greek means to appease of pacify.

In both cases God's anger is soothed.
Propitiation vs. Expiation- The New Testament usage of hilaskomai and hilasmos, consistent with its precedent usage in the Greek Old Testament, speaks consistently of God’s atoning action in Christ directed toward sin on behalf of sinners, not human action directed toward God to satisfy God. The criterion for interpretation, Stott has said, “is whether the object of the atoning action is God or man.” “Propitiation” indicates an action by humans directed toward God, and “expiation” indicates an action by God toward sin and sinners. According to Stott's criterion, these texts favor "expiation" over “propitiation.” Given the choice of translating hilastērion either “propitiation” or “expiation,” therefore, “expiation” is preferable based on the textual evidence of both the New Testament and the Greek Old Testament. James Dunn summarizes well the case for preferring “expiation” to “propitiation” as a translation for hilastērion: Darrin W. Snyder Belousek, Atonement, Justice, and Peace: The Message of the Cross and the Mission of the Church (Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2012), 247–252.
 
Propitiation vs. Expiation- The New Testament usage of hilaskomai and hilasmos, consistent with its precedent usage in the Greek Old Testament, speaks consistently of God’s atoning action in Christ directed toward sin on behalf of sinners, not human action directed toward God to satisfy God. The criterion for interpretation, Stott has said, “is whether the object of the atoning action is God or man.” “Propitiation” indicates an action by humans directed toward God, and “expiation” indicates an action by God toward sin and sinners. According to Stott's criterion, these texts favor "expiation" over “propitiation.” Given the choice of translating hilastērion either “propitiation” or “expiation,” therefore, “expiation” is preferable based on the textual evidence of both the New Testament and the Greek Old Testament. James Dunn summarizes well the case for preferring “expiation” to “propitiation” as a translation for hilastērion: Darrin W. Snyder Belousek, Atonement, Justice, and Peace: The Message of the Cross and the Mission of the Church (Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2012), 247–252.
My preferred tanslation is the NASB, in the OT the word "expiation" is translated from the same Hebrew word as "atonement"
Also your phrase, "God's atoning action" is a different view of Christ's atonement. Jesus the man gave up His life.
 
I think at the heart of this is understanding what the word "atonement" means.
It means to soothe anger thru an offering.
Christ's blood did that. When He offered His pure blood to the Father. the Father smelled it and His anger was soothed away.
What remained? To receive Christ to indwell us and in doing so receive the forgiveness bought with His blood.
pagan gods do like their evil blood sacrifices.

But not God... I don't think God was 'smelling blood'.
 
or what some 'think it says' no?
But you don't talk about the Bible, and generally don't cite anything your ideas come from
For you to make claims about those what people think about the Bible says, shows your disdain for the purpose of these threads. Which is to discuss what we see in scripture and talk with others about what they see.
 
But you don't talk about the Bible, and generally don't cite anything your ideas come from
For you to make claims about those what people think about the Bible says, shows your disdain for the purpose of these threads. Which is to discuss what we see in scripture and talk with others about what they see.

The sad thing to me, is some people seem to really like to hide their true beliefs and not come right out with them.

If you notice this is a sign of a lot of cults and false doctrines—"sound" like you agree so you can hide your true beliefs underneath.
 
The sad thing to me, is some people seem to really like to hide their true beliefs and not come right out with them.

If you notice this is a sign of a lot of cults and false doctrines—"sound" like you agree so you can hide your true beliefs underneath.
why gossip about me in the third person
to others with your opinions about me
who you never met, as if I was not here?

I am right here and you can ask me.

I don't belong to a cult or go to any church
or even watch religious youtube. I'm older and
and do not get out much at all.

You can see my views stated in the past on
other forums. I haven't hidden my opinions.
I am well aware some are different than yours.
So what?

And true,
I don't agree with your version of things.
 
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But you don't talk about the Bible, and generally don't cite anything your ideas come from
For you to make claims about those what people think about the Bible says, shows your disdain for the purpose of these threads. Which is to discuss what we see in scripture and talk with others about what they see.

I was not talking about other posters here. Just joined here the other day. I was talking about commentators, theology in general over the centuries. I should have been more clear.
 
Would you deny the New Testament describes Jesus' Blood as a sacrifice that forgives and cleanses us?!
Blood is a type in scripture.
Physical everyday blood from a body,
is not what could save us..
Christ did, he saved us by taking our place ...

blood has a transcendent meaning here,
of giving us Life...when we
are dead...
His Life to make possible to set us free

blood also identifies a family
... and represents a Nature.

Christ our deity took a step down,
incarnated here,
in this lowly body,
and submitted himself to death,
even though He could have stopped it...
so all of us could Live
and be restored to God
 
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So it's not just physical human blood...

but His Nature and Life
He gave to us by the cross
that we could be forgiven and Live
and be part of God's family...
forever in paradise



please it be any day now He returns for us....
 
why gossip about me in the third person

Your definition of gossip is incorrect.

to others with your opinions about me
who you never met, as if I was not here?

Maybe because you take every opportunity to make an offense where this isn't any, like right here?

Maybe because you play the innocent victim when you are in fact being passive aggressive and making false accusations?

Maybe because you keep looking for everything to report to a mod where you feel the slightest bit crossed?

I'm sick of it.

I am right here and you can ask me.

You have refused to answer questions from me many times, and also proven a hostile witness trying to turn everything into an accusation, like here.

I don't belong to a cult or go to any church
or even watch religious youtube. I'm older and
and do not get out much at all.

I didn't say you did.

You can see my views stated in the past on
other forums. I haven't hidden my opinions.

You have denied things you plainly stated. Your statements are contradictory and unclear.

I am well aware some are different than yours.
So what?

This wasn't my point, so why bring it up.

And true,
I don't agree with your version of things.

Never said you didn't.
 
So it's not just physical human blood...

but His Nature and Life
He gave to us by the cross
that we could be forgiven and Live
and be part of God's family...
forever in paradise

please it be any day now He returns for us....

I agree, his physical blood stands for his life force.

But calling it a "sacrifice" is not metaphorical right?

And it is to suffer for our sins, right?!
 
the satanic ones
who put us here in this mess
are the torturers to be judged...


who hate Christ
and took out their wrath on Him
 
and without Christ taking our place
that would be us,
who'd never have been able to
have a chance to get free of satan
and his utter jealousy and hatred of us
 
Our sin was disobeying God,
leaving eden and God.
Christ got us out of satan's clutches
by incarnating here and by the cross
so that we could go Home.
 
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