The translations with the removal of Gods name in over 7000 places are altered by satan's will to mislead.
A Challenge
- Thread starter Brakelite
- Start date
SteveB
Active Member
Then apparently it's a good thing that YHVH himself is capable of ensuring the integrity of his Word to the human race.
He wouldn't be much of a god if he couldn't handle this.
All translations with Gods name removed was accomplished by satans will to mislead through these-2Thess 2:3)-Gods will = his name in his bible in over 7000 places. Thus ones religion shows all creation whose will they are in support of by the translation they use.
A prime example of the misleading it causes is the following.
At Joel 2:21-22= Those who call on the name of YHVH(Jehovah) will be saved.---quoted 2 x in the NT at Acts 2:21, and Romans 10:13--But since LORD is at Joel in the altered translations, Lord is at both NT spots. And since all know Jesus is Lord they will call on his name in error because YHVH(Jehovah) belongs at all 3 spots by Gods will.
SteveB
Active Member
Sounds like you're having a problem getting a good translation.
Perhaps you should dump the JW/WTS/NWT stuff, and come follow Jesus.
I have studied since 1961, i studied with trinitarians and JW,s, looked into Mormons, Etc. I carefully studied Jesus=In every translation on earth his teachings back the JW religion-0 doubt in all creation. You should come follow Jesus. Few on earth knows what he actually teaches. That is why--FEW will find the road that leads off into life.
The New world translation is the best translation on earth.
SteveB
Active Member
That would explain your confusion and lack of awareness.
The NWT is not actually a translation.
Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? | GotQuestions.org
Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? Did the Jehovah’s Witnessess intentionally alter the Bible to create the New World Translation?
www.gotquestions.org
But, let's see if you can actually answer a question. It'll go a long way to taking seriously the claims of the WTS.
Colossians 1:15 says that Jesus is the firstborn of creation.
But JW say that Jesus is created.
Since when does firstborn become first created?
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
YES.
YES.
The BLOOD of a PERFECT HUMAN. Isa 53:10
Next Question??
The term all creation is proof its speaking of the beginning creation. God rested after that.That would explain your confusion and lack of awareness.
The NWT is not actually a translation.
Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? | GotQuestions.org
Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? Did the Jehovah’s Witnessess intentionally alter the Bible to create the New World Translation?www.gotquestions.org
But, let's see if you can actually answer a question. It'll go a long way to taking seriously the claims of the WTS.
Colossians 1:15 says that Jesus is the firstborn of creation.
But JW say that Jesus is created.
Since when does firstborn become first created?
The New world translation is a translation.
There have been many bibles in history with a god at John 1:1, only the divided house(hundreds of trinity religions) that will not stand have a capitol G God at John 1:1. Its them who are in error. That is fact. Israel NEVER served a trinity God.
SteveB
Active Member
That's not actually answering the question.
What makes the firstborn, the first created?
Or, let's see if this works..
Since when is begotten, created?
Brakelite
Active Member
You are trusting in a human sacrifice for your redemption? Or a divine sacrifice?
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
The sacrifice of a PERFECT human. I'll have to ask later if the FACT that Jesus WAS ALSO a physical incarnation of God and therefore divine was important to the process.
It's all based on the Lev 16:1-34 which involved a "Bullock" that was the sin offering for the high priest himself, a "Ram" that was the burnt offering for the people, and "two young goats" one of which was killed as the BLOOD OFFERING, and it's blood sprinkled on the mercy seat, and the other , infused by the high priest with the SINS OF ISRAEL, was led away alive and abandoned in the wilderness. THIS PROCESS, "Covered the SIN" of Israel for a year, at which time it was repeated.
I'm TRUSTING in the FAITH gifted to me by God in Jesus' SIN OFFERING on Calvary. (Eph 2:8,9) and not worrying about the "Theology" involved.
What are YOU trusting??
Firstborn of all creation=created direct, first and last=only begotten son.
SteveB
Active Member
Sounds incoherent. This makes no sense.
Its reality. Its the trinity based religions that twist it.
Dan 7:13-15--One like the son of man( a created being) was appointed to a kingship=Jesus) He is Michael.
Heb 1:4- so he has become better than the angels-Why? Because God gave him a name above theirs--Thus is equal to the angels except for that name.
Psalm 45:7--Jesus has a God-fellows or partners= angels.
SteveB
Active Member
I simply asked-
Why does the firstborn become the first created?
so far you have failed to coherently explain it.
as such, the trinity religions aren't the problem.
WTS is.
I first asked this question in 2009. An older JW couple showed up at my house in July 2010. I asked the man, but he couldn't answer me either.
I invited him to return to his kingdom hall, ask the elders and return over the next few weeks to provide me the answer.
He never returned.
In 2018 I ran across a man who looked like the man, but much older and more frail.
Thinking it was him, I reminded him, and asked again. He said it was a good question, but he couldn't answer me.
8 years later and no answer from an older man who was very skilled in WTS doctrine.
So... if you're going to dance around this and fail to answer coherently, I'm thinking that you have no idea what you're talking about.
yet it doesn't say he was created.
you're jumping into a fire from the frying pan.
Michael is a created being.
But the passage doesn't say "one like the Son of Man" was Michael.
Dan 7:13-15 WEB 13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, there came with the clouds of the sky one like a son of man, and he came even to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him. 14 Dominion was given him, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be destroyed. 15 “As for me, Daniel, my spirit was grieved within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
Rather curious how you get Michael from that.
I can't even find Michael in the NWT version.
Why do you do this to yourselves?
12 But as for the rest of the beasts,w their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season.
13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of manx was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days,y and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership,z honor,a and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him.b His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.c
15 “As for me, Daniel, my spirit was distressed within me because the visions of my head frightened me.d
Sad.
you blew right over the passage that says Jesus created everything and sustains it.
Ok.
NWT, Hebrews 1
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Heb
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To the Hebrews1:1-14
[COLOR=var(--mediaPlayer-audio-controlBar-fontColor, #626262)]Chapter 1
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[COLOR=var(--du-color--blue-500, #4a6da7)]1 [/COLOR] Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways.[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]a[/COLOR] [COLOR=var(--du-color--blue-500, #4a6da7)]2 [/COLOR] Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son,[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]b[/COLOR] whom he appointed heir of all things,[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]c[/COLOR] and through whom he made the systems of things.
[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]*[/COLOR]
[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]d[/COLOR] [COLOR=var(--du-color--blue-500, #4a6da7)]3 [/COLOR] He is the reflection of God’s glory[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]e[/COLOR] and the exact representation of his very being,[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]f[/COLOR] and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins,[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]g[/COLOR] he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]h[/COLOR] [COLOR=var(--du-color--blue-500, #4a6da7)]4 [/COLOR] So he has become better than the angels[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]i[/COLOR] to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]j[/COLOR][COLOR=var(--du-color--blue-500, #4a6da7)]5 [/COLOR] For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”?[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]k[/COLOR] And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”?[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]l[/COLOR] [COLOR=var(--du-color--blue-500, #4a6da7)]6 [/COLOR] But when he again brings his Firstborn[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]m[/COLOR] into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]*[/COLOR]
[COLOR=var(--du-color--blue-500, #4a6da7)]7 [/COLOR] Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]*[/COLOR]
[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]n[/COLOR] a flame of fire.”[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]o[/COLOR] [COLOR=var(--du-color--blue-500, #4a6da7)]8 [/COLOR] But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]p[/COLOR] forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]*[/COLOR]
[COLOR=var(--du-color--blue-500, #4a6da7)]9 [/COLOR] You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]q[/COLOR] with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”[COLOR=var(--ds-link-color, #4a6da7)]r[/COLOR] [/COLOR]A non JW Bible.
Heb 1:1-10 WEB 1 God, having in the past spoken to the fathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds. 3 His Son is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, who, when he had by himself purified us of our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels as the more excellent name he has inherited is better than theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did he say at any time, “You are my Son. Today I have become your father?” and again, “I will be to him a Father, and he will be to me a Son?” 6 When he again brings in the firstborn into the world he says, “Let all the angels of God worship him.” 7 Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire.” 8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your Kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.” 10 And, “You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands.
So, I'm thinking that your own Bible says what mine says... angels worship him. God Himself calls him God.
Jesus created, and sustains everything.
I think the one i like the most is Titus.
did you know that there are two saviors listed in Titus?
unless of course they're the same person.
Check out Isaiah 43:10-11, and Hosea 13:4.
Oh, I'm using the NWT Bible.
10 “You are my witnesses,”q declares Jehovah,
“Yes, my servant whom I have chosen,r
So that you may know and have faith in me*
And understand that I am the same One.s
Before me no God was formed,
And after me there has been none.t
11 I—I am Jehovah,u and besides me there is no savior.”
4 But I am Jehovah your God from* the land of Egypt;e
You knew no God except me,
And besides me there is no savior.
So... question... who is Savior? Can anyone OTHER than Jehovah (YHVH) be Savior?
Anyone?
Again... I'm using the NWT.
Titus 1:3-4
3 but in his own due time, he made his word known through the preaching entrusted to mec according to the command of our Savior, God; 4 to Titus,d a genuine child according to the faith we share:
May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Titus 2:1-15
10 not stealing from them,j but showing complete trustworthiness, so that in every way they may adorn the teaching of our Savior, God.k
11 For the undeserved kindness of God has been manifested, bringing salvation to all sorts of people.l 12 It trains us to reject ungodliness and worldly desiresm and to live with soundness of mind and righteousness and godly devotion amid this present system of things,n 13 while we wait for the happy hopeo and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ,
Titus 3:4-6
4 However, when the kindness of our Savior, God,e and his love for mankind were manifested 5 (not because of any righteous works we had done,f but because of his own mercy),g he saved us by means of the bath that brought us to lifeh and by making us new by holy spirit.i 6 He poured this spirit out richly* on us through Jesus Christ our Savior,j
I now have a serious problem.
According to the Isaiah 43:10-11, and Ho13:4, YHVH ALONE is Savior.
But now, in Titus, we see BOTH God, and Jesus being called Savior.
How can YHVH alone be Savior and both God and Jesus be Savior simultaneously?
so, angels created everything?
You know what I find myself wondering...
The WTS/JW...
They're polythiests.
Their claim to be monotheistic is a lie.
Their own Bible, in John 1:1 says that Jesus is "A" god.
They refer to Jesus in Isaiah 9:6, where he's called
And the rulership* will rest on his shoulder.e
His name will be called Wonderful Counselor,f Mighty God,g Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
By rejecting Jesus as God, and calling him "a mighty god" you have turned yourselves into polythiests.
You believe in more than one God.
Not a good place to be. That's for sure!
Trinity translations are altered( removal of Gods name against his will)--And filled with errors by Catholicism( 2 Thess 2:3) to fit false council teachings. Once one understands these 2 facts they can see much clearer.
The JW,s were allowed into the Catholic archives back in the 60,s or 70,s, they came out with proof--the spirit, water and blood are the 3 witness bearers, not the Father, son and holy spirit as Catholicism translated, some translations changed, some added it to the other. They were never allowed back in for exposing that misleading error. There are many more that contradict Jesus.
SteveB
Active Member
Of course they're altered.
It's the only way to justify the corruption in the cults.
Muslims claim the Bible was changed.
Mormons claim it was changed
And so do WTS/JW.
here's the problem...
I USED THE NWT/WTS/JW Bible to make my point.
So, since my "altered" Bible has been changed, I wanted to make sure I used your "unaltered" Bible.
And I note your failure to actually answer my questions.
Classic JW/WTS practice.
Congratulations!
Ask 1 question at a time. I don't read massive posts like your prior one.
In Isaiah, Jehovah was the only savior at that point in time. Jesus became a savior by completing his sinful existence and providing the ransom sacrifice which opened the door to all mankind to get saved, as long as the mortal as well fulfills his part. Jesus could have failed and thus would not be a savior. But being the only savior(Jehovah) as well means-he is the only power source, it is by his will any get saved. He does it-THROUGH-Jesus. Jesus only does his Fathers will, as do the saved( Matt 7:21)- over self.
SteveB
Active Member
Why does your religion use a translation altered by satans will over Gods will with his name removed?
