7 Reasons the church does not go through the great tribulation

Why Did the Disciples of the Apostles like Polycarp Teach a Future Resurrection Beyond A.D. 70?​


It eems from other sources that the tribulation mentioned by Jesus was not the future Great Tribulation.

There is not much from Polycarp on this subject of 70AD...but he was into the future coming of Jesus and that is where his teaching lay.
Yet another excellent share!!! Thank you! :love:

I love how fair you handled your response here, FreeInChrist, hearing him out.
Great job, brother! :)


(Edit)

What just dawned on me... they say Flavius Josephus was a son of one of the unbelieving Israeli men in the crowd shouting,
"Free Barabbas! Free Barabbas!" If I recall correctly, he had distanced himself from that group.

There too was a quote by Eusebius, I believe, saying that Flavius Josephus was superstitious, or something along those lines.
I'll track that quote down, & share later.
 
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The four letters IEUE, individually and read right to left in hebrew mean "He who gives Breath". Four vowels.


“A mitre also of fine linen encompassed his head, which was tied by a blue ribbon, about which there was another golden crown, in which was engraven the sacred name [of the Almighty]: it consists of four vowels.” ——Josephus, 75 AD, The War of the Jews, Book 5. 5. 7.

So much for consonantal egyptian terms yhwh, jehovah and other non-hebrew replacements. Ancient Hebrew is not modern hebrew but a vocalic language, an oral tradition not written until ptolemy ii got his grubby hands on the text (see aristeas letter). Many were murdered to produce modern christianity and to hurt Christian souls since the fall!
 
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It eems from other sources that the tribulation mentioned by Jesus was not the future Great Tribulation.

everything Christ has done since the fall has been to return us home, and not simply to describe endless earthly events no longer speaking to souls as 100% applicable right Now to each and every soul of Him. so yes, warning jacob of tribulation. End times, now.

His words are never dusty history. It is illogical for Him to discuss tribulation in 'other contexts' other than now, the end times much of jacob will suffer and also His 144k, who do not go through tribulation, meeting Him on the clouds. So those interpreters ("other sources") are wrong.
 
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@Victoria

No brother...but a sister! ;) @FreeInChrist is a very, very, very old woman. :)

Trying to read everything to get up to speed.
You know @Red Baker .... you single handedly are going to force me to get another user name. Maybe I will use Red Baker II

Yes, I am old... old man. But you are still a year younger then me and I deserve your respect. Did your parents never teach you to respect your elders? Sheeeesh
 
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Trying to read everything to get up to speed.
I know you are not reading me because you do not agree with me.... Unless you just wanna debate?

If you do read me you will note I back things up biblically....
And if I use outside sources I cite them.
 
Yes, I am old... old man. But you are still a year younger then me and I deserve your respect. Did your parents never teach you to respect your elders? Sheeeesh
Yes madam they did....I still love you, just having a little fun with an old friend.
 
Add Eusebius to the list as well. Another excellent share!

"In this persecution, it is handed down by tradition, that the apostle John, who was yet living, in consequence of his testamony of the divine word, was condemned to dwell on the island of Patmos. Irenaeus, indeed, in his fifth book against the heresies, where he speaks of the calculation formed on the epithet of, in the abovementioned revelation of John, speaks in the following manner respecting him. 'If, however, it were necessary to proclaim his name (i.e. Antichrist), openly at the present time, it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation, for it is not long since it was seen, but almost in our own generation, at the close of Domitian's reign." Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, pp. 101-102
Amen !
 
@FreeInChrist
I know you are not reading me because you do not agree with me.
Of course I read everything, even yours, believe it or not~ and I have noticed once in awhile you stumble across a truth, but, you for some reason always take the opposite side from what I teach, and that's okay, it would concern me if all agree with me. And in spite of this, I still like you.

Btw, what does your conclusion means, that I do not read your post, since I do not agree with you.......what is that suppose to mean? That I should believe whatever you say? You made a statement this morning that I do not believe, where you said this:
I have more on this but John of Rev is not the Apostle John from what I can tell
What other John could it possibly would have been? There is no other John, that could possible fit this description in the NT.

Revelation 1:9​

“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

Btw, John was not looking for a kingdom on the earth, for he said that he WAS IN the kingdom.
 
@FreeInChrist

Of course I read everything, even yours, believe it or not~ and I have noticed once in awhile you stumble across a truth, but, you for some reason always take the opposite side from what I teach, and that's okay, it would concern me if all agree with me. And in spite of this, I still like you.

Btw, what does your conclusion means, that I do not read your post, since I do not agree with you.......what is that suppose to mean? That I should believe whatever you say? You made a statement this morning that I do not beleive, where you said this:

What other John could it possibly would have been? There is no other John, that could possible fit this description in the NT.

Revelation 1:9​

“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

Btw, John was not looking for a kingdom on the earth, for he said that he WAS IN the kingdom.
And scripture says the kingdom of God is in you. It also says there is a millennial kingdom when Christ sits on the throne of David and rules. There is also the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of God, the kingdom of Christ. There are many aspects to the kingdom. So your pov holds no water its nothing but your bias opinion to deny premillinnealism.

Even AI below has a more biblical view than you do.

"The kingdom of God has several aspects, including its universal, present, and future dimensions. It is a universal kingdom of God's sovereign rule over all creation, a present spiritual kingdom that exists within believers, and a future kingdom that will be fully realized at the end of time. These aspects are interconnected, with the present spiritual reality being a manifestation of the universal rule, and the future fulfillment awaiting a final apocalyptic arrival. "
The universal and eternal kingdom
In its broadest sense, the Kingdom of God refers to God's ultimate sovereign rule over all that exists, as declared throughout the Bible.
  • Psalm 103:19 states, "The LORD has established his throne in heaven, and his kingdom rules over all".
  • This aspect emphasizes God's absolute and transcendent power, dwarfing all earthly powers and dominions by comparison.

The spiritual and internal kingdom
Jesus's ministry announced that the Kingdom of God was "at hand," emphasizing a present, spiritual dimension that begins in the hearts of believers.
  • A new birth: Jesus taught Nicodemus that no one can "see the kingdom of God unless they are born again" (John 3:3-5). This indicates a necessary internal transformation to enter God's rule.
  • Righteousness and peace: The Apostle Paul wrote that "the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17). This describes the transformed life of a believer who submits to Christ's kingship.
  • Not a physical place: In Luke 17:20-21, Jesus told the Pharisees that the kingdom of God would not come with observable signs but was "in the midst of you". This highlights that the kingdom is not confined to a single geographical location.

The "already but not yet" tension
A central theme in New Testament theology is that the Kingdom of God is both a present reality ("already") and a future, complete fulfillment ("not yet").
  • The "already": Through Jesus's life, death, and resurrection, the kingdom broke into the present world, ushering in the "new age of life and salvation". Followers of Christ already experience the blessings and power of this kingdom through the Holy Spirit.
  • The "not yet": The full realization of the kingdom is still to come, when Christ returns to bring final judgment and establish a new heaven and new earth (Matthew 25:31, Revelation 21:1-4).
  • Living in the tension: Christians are called to live between these two realities, actively participating in God's kingdom work while waiting with hope for its ultimate arrival.

Revealed through parables
Jesus's parables provide insight into the nature and growth of the kingdom.
  • Mustard Seed: Though it starts small, the kingdom will grow to become something great and expansive (
  • Leaven: Like yeast that permeates an entire batch of dough, the kingdom's influence will spread and transform everything from the inside out (
  • Hidden Treasure and Pearl of Great Price: The kingdom is of immeasurable value, worth giving up everything to possess (

The church and the kingdom
The relationship between the church and the kingdom is complex. The church is not the kingdom itself, but it is the primary instrument through which the kingdom is manifested on earth today.
  • Embassy of the kingdom: The church acts as an "outpost" of the kingdom of God in a world still under the influence of darkness.
  • Proclamation and demonstration: Believers are called to proclaim the good news of the kingdom and to visibly demonstrate its presence through their transformed lives.
  • Not a replacement: The kingdom existed before the church and will continue after its work is complete. The church is a part of the kingdom, but not the entirety of it.
 
I've been getting complaints about this thread and after looking it over it looks like their is a rule violation happening.

Rule 2e-Do not attack another member's character in any way. Address the post content, not the member's character, family, denominational affiliation, religion or any other subject that may be perceived as a personal attack by the Berean Board team and is not germane to the topic or post at hand.

Stay on topic and do not tell other members what they should believe. Do not harass other members.

your cooperation would be greatly appreciated in this matter.
 
You know @Red Baker .... you single handedly are going to force me to get another user name. Maybe I will use Red Baker II

Yes, I am old... old man. But you are still a year younger then me and I deserve your respect. Did your parents never teach you to respect your elders? Sheeeesh
i got tickled when i read this my friend . One year . Methusulah would have laughed at us all .
old . The one year part really got me tickled though . One year .
 
I've been getting complaints about this thread and after looking it over it looks like their is a rule violation happening.

Rule 2e-Do not attack another member's character in any way. Address the post content, not the member's character, family, denominational affiliation, religion or any other subject that may be perceived as a personal attack by the Berean Board team and is not germane to the topic or post at hand.

Stay on topic and do not tell other members what they should believe. Do not harass other members.

your cooperation would be greatly appreciated in this matter.
you might want to explain very specifically to those in private or here
an example of what they did . for example we are to warn against false doctrine
and yes even false teachers by name . So tell them specifically what they said
so as it can be corrected .
 
you might want to explain very specifically to those in private or here
an example of what they did . for example we are to warn against false doctrine
and yes even false teachers by name . So tell them specifically what they said
so as it can be corrected .
calling a person a liar would be one such example.

Rules List:

1a.
No vulgarity, profanity, name calling, or slang expression(s) that could be interpreted as a suggestion of impropriety or generally regarded as demeaning in nature. (Ephesians 5:3-5) Address members by their screen names and do not mock or make fun of their names.

1b.No abusive, insulting, or derogatory language. (Colossians 3:5, 8)

1c. No attacks on another poster's religious beliefs, race, national origin, or gender.

1d. No chats that deteriorate into petty bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering.

2. No Flaming, Goading, Gaslighting or Harassment.

2a. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.

2b. No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Berean Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community. Do not call anyone a heretic, false teacher, a cultist , satanic or any other such term.

2c. Do not discuss other posters.

2d. This further includes making false statements or accusations about a member. Do not lie about anyone or call them a liar.
Sarcasm is not included under this rule.

2e-Do not attack another member's character in any way. Address the post content, not the member's character, family, denominational affiliation, religion or any other subject that may be perceived as a personal attack by the Berean Board team and is not germane to the topic or post at hand.
 
calling a person a liar would be one such example.

Rules List:

1a.
No vulgarity, profanity, name calling, or slang expression(s) that could be interpreted as a suggestion of impropriety or generally regarded as demeaning in nature. (Ephesians 5:3-5) Address members by their screen names and do not mock or make fun of their names.

1b.No abusive, insulting, or derogatory language. (Colossians 3:5, 8)

1c. No attacks on another poster's religious beliefs, race, national origin, or gender.

1d. No chats that deteriorate into petty bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering.

2. No Flaming, Goading, Gaslighting or Harassment.

2a. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.

2b. No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Berean Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community. Do not call anyone a heretic, false teacher, a cultist , satanic or any other such term.

2c. Do not discuss other posters.

2d. This further includes making false statements or accusations about a member. Do not lie about anyone or call them a liar.
Sarcasm is not included under this rule.

2e-Do not attack another member's character in any way. Address the post content, not the member's character, family, denominational affiliation, religion or any other subject that may be perceived as a personal attack by the Berean Board team and is not germane to the topic or post at hand.
reread one c . because i have seen that one abused
and folks who warn against false religoins or even denominations as attacking .
BUT its not an attack to warn one if they are sitting under a false place
An attack is an attack . Think about that .
because some on other sites have used the word attack when one is simply warning
one to come out of such places . ITs not an attack to warn one .
To slander one is another thing . But to warn one against false teachers , bad places
That is What GOD requires we do .
I have this against you , you are allowing that false prophetess to teach and to seduce my people .
Think about that . GOD was angry because they allowed this and did not expose it .
 
calling a person a liar would be one such example.

Rules List:

1a.
No vulgarity, profanity, name calling, or slang expression(s) that could be interpreted as a suggestion of impropriety or generally regarded as demeaning in nature. (Ephesians 5:3-5) Address members by their screen names and do not mock or make fun of their names.

1b.No abusive, insulting, or derogatory language. (Colossians 3:5, 8)

1c. No attacks on another poster's religious beliefs, race, national origin, or gender.

1d. No chats that deteriorate into petty bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering.

2. No Flaming, Goading, Gaslighting or Harassment.

2a. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.

2b. No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Berean Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community. Do not call anyone a heretic, false teacher, a cultist , satanic or any other such term.

2c. Do not discuss other posters.

2d. This further includes making false statements or accusations about a member. Do not lie about anyone or call them a liar.
Sarcasm is not included under this rule.

2e-Do not attack another member's character in any way. Address the post content, not the member's character, family, denominational affiliation, religion or any other subject that may be perceived as a personal attack by the Berean Board team and is not germane to the topic or post at hand.
I am only trying to help my friend . I have seen this used the wrong way by some on other sites .
Like for example if one says homosexaulity is sin
THEY say HEY YOU CANT ATTACK . but how is that attacking . what is next if one says murder is sin
will they call that attacking too . This is what i mean about wrongful use .
 
reread one c . because i have seen that one abused
and folks who warn against false religoins or even denominations as attacking .
BUT its not an attack to warn one if they are sitting under a false place
An attack is an attack . Think about that .
because some on other sites have used the word attack when one is simply warning
one to come out of such places . ITs not an attack to warn one .
To slander one is another thing . But to warn one against false teachers , bad places
That is What GOD requires we do .
I have this against you , you are allowing that false prophetess to teach and to seduce my people .
Think about that . GOD was angry because they allowed this and did not expose it .
you can warn against false teaching, but calling a person a false teacher is a no no here and on any other site. Thats just how forums operate.

The @Administrator and I started this forum a few years ago to be different from the ones we participated in. We wanted this forum to be different in many ways from the rest of them. Are we perfect ? no but we do try and improve and we do listen to the members suggestions.

Also I try and stay out of these kinds of things and let our staff led by our @Administrator and his team handle the rules and conduct of the forum. Every once in a while I will chime in but its rare. I enjoy debating, having my ideas challenged and also challenging others with their beliefs whether they be an agnostic, atheist, mormon, JW, oneness, calvinist, arminian, trinitarian, binitarian or whatever else they might be.
 
you can warn against false teaching, but calling a person a false teacher is a no no here and on any other site. Thats just how forums operate.
There is one thing i would like for us to do here .
And it would greatly help us all out .
IF any comes and brings another gospel
and after correcting them they still do not hear
WE have no choice but to remove them . This would also bode well for sins .
IF i came on here defending SIN and after being corrected i wont hear
YOU all gonna have to boot me off . We need to keep the correct pattern .
THIS not only might help lead the one in error to repentance
but it will help keep leaven from rising up in time .
 
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