7 Reasons the church does not go through the great tribulation

@civic
civic said:
next fallacy
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The only fallacies so far are your. Also, so far, you have not made even one quote coming directly from you, not one. I'm actually addressing the gentleman's article, not one word from Mr. civic.

If you would like to do so, let's just you and I give our understanding of Matthew 24,25 that will go along way of seeing who has truth or not on this subject ~ Or, we can go to Revelation beginning at chapter six and take one chapter at a time and see who has the truth or not. You chose, I'll follow you.
 
Red Baker said:
@civic

The only fallacies so far are your. Also, so far, you have not made even one quote coming directly from you, not one. I'm actually addressing the gentleman's article, not one word from Mr. civic.

If you would like to do so, let's just you and I give our understanding of Matthew 24,25 that will go along way of seeing who has truth or not on this subject ~ Or, we can go to Revelation beginning at chapter six and take one chapter at a time and see who has the truth or not. You chose, I'll follow you.
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He just doesn’t know end-time prophecy. (sigh)
 
Also, I’m not liking the way many members are using AI copy-and-paste methods of communicating. Let’s go back to learning for ourselves. That’s why there’s so much lack of knowledge. selah
 
Red Baker said:
@civic

The secret rapture of the church before the last days is a false doctrine. The church of Jesus Christ will be here until the last day, and will "not" be taken out before then. That's a heresy promoted by the Scofield reference Bible, that many different cults and sad to say some good Christians have bought into, simply by the fact of what we said above:

Jesus Christ said this:

John 6:39​

“And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

John 6:40​

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6:54​

“Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 5:28​

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
This takes place on the last day, at the LAST TRUMP!

1st Corinthians 15:51,52​

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

The last trump is the seventh trumpet of Revelation, when there shall be NO MORE after this one, and clearly Paul is saying that saints shall be raised at the LAST TRUMP. So, the resurrection of the saints takes place on the last day at the last trumpet.

Revelation 11:15​

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”

Revelation 16:17​

“And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.”

Revelation 10:7​

“But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”

So, there is no more time after the last (seventh) trump shall sound
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Continue to speak the Truth in Righteousness = never adding or taking away from our Heavenly FATHER's words
 
@civic
civic said:
My comments outside of the OP are mine
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The OP is what I'm commenting on, and I'm dealing with his topic, not every verse he use since it his topic is wrong, who cares what scriptures he is attempting to use? So far civic you are not using any verses to support what you think is biblical.
 
@civic @brightfame52 @Jim @FreeInChrist
civic said:
The Gentile Believers at the Second Coming
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The word of God never separates the Gentiles believer's from the Jews in the NT, BOTH are ONE HOLY SPIRITUAL TEMPLE where the Spirit of God shall forever dwell within!
Ephesians 2:11-22~"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."
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civic said:
At the time of the rapture, believers in Christ who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and to live with Him forever. However, the Bible indicates there will be believers here on earth during the tribulation. It will not be that some get left behind, but that some Gentiles will place their faith in Jesus Christ. That is a very unlikely thing, though, as 2 Thessalonians 2:11 tells us there will be strong delusion, causing most to believe the lies of the Antichrist. (Perhaps it is this delusion that causes Jews to fall into the deceptive trap of the Antichrist.)
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Civic and ALL premillennialists I have one question for all of you to answer for me ~which comes first, Christ's coming for his people, or the man of sin/antichrist/abomination of desolation? All of you will with one voice say, Christ's coming for his people will take place first, but Paul said otherwise! This should alert you of your unbiblical position, but he seems as though it does not. Listen carefully to 2nd Thessalonians 2:
2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3~"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
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These scripture clearly said that Christ's coming and our gathering together unto him will not come EXCEPT the antichrist/man of sin be revealed! Yet all premillennialists teach just the opposite of what Paul is teaching us. Who shall we believe? Of course the word of God, not those who have been deceived by the many false prophets who just repeat what they have heard from others. The Scofield Reference Bible has done more to promote this lies than any other reference bible, and most just beleive it as though it was the truth of God's word. Now Jimmy Swaggart's expositor's Bible is doing the same.

2nd Thessalonians 2 is speaking about the latter days of the last day just before Christ's second coming~what is recorded in 2nd Thessalonians 2 is the same message that's in Matthew 24; Mark 13 and Luke 21!

Is there anyone who would like to debate me on 2nd Thess. 2~I'm ready to do so. I may start here this weekend the Lord willing, since it is a portion of God's word that is so missed understood.
 
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@Selah
Selah said:
Does everyone know that the Day of the Lord is the day that Christ returns to earth as King of kings?
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The day of the Lord and the day of Christ are ONE and the same, regardless what many may say otherwise.
 
Here is some more teaching on The Lord’s Day, the second coming of Jesus Christ.

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. Zechariah 14:9

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORD'S Revelation 19:16 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; Revelation 19:17
Christ's return ("The Lord's Day") will not take place until Satan first comes to earth claiming to be Christ.
This happens at the 7th trump (There are only 7 trumps). Satan the Antichrist comes before Jesus, at the 6th trump.

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 Thessalonians 2:1 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2 Thessalonians 2:2 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:4

The man of sin is none other than the devil (Satan) (the Antichrist).

selah
 
Red Baker said:
@Selah

The day of the Lord and the day of Christ are ONE and the same, regardless what many may say otherwise.
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The NT refers to the day of the Lord as the day of His wrath. It’s a day of “wrath,” a day of “visitation,” and the “great day of God Almighty” (Revelation 16:14) and refers to the time when God’s wrath is poured out on unbelieving Israel during the great tribulation. See (Isaiah 22; Jeremiah 30:1-17; Joel 1-2; Amos 5; Zephaniah 1)

hope this helps !!!
 
Selah said:
Does everyone know that the Day of the Lord is the day that Christ returns to earth as King of kings?

selah
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Great, we should know that! How about the other Two Days?:

--------------------
Day of CHRIST vs Day Of The LORD vs Day Of God!

According To the preaching of JESUS CHRIST, In The Revelation
Of The Mystery! (Romans - Philemon!), "The Day Of CHRIST!" =

The "Judgment Day" Of The Heavenly Body Of CHRIST,
who Will Be Taken Home To Heaven { LIGHT! }, For "shame... and/or:
...rewards, rejoicing, And reigning!" (1 Corinthians 3:8-15) Amen?:

“That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit or ​
by word, nor by letter as from us, as that The Day Of CHRIST is at hand." ​

“Who Shall Confirm you Unto the end, that ye may be blameless ​
In The Day Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST!" (1 Corinthians 1:8)​

“To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, ​
that the spirit may be saved In The Day Of The LORD JESUS!" ​

“As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, ​
even as ye also are ours in the In The Day Of The LORD JESUS!" ​

“Being confident Of This Very Thing, That HE Which Hath Begun A ​
Good Work In you, Will Perform It Until The Day Of JESUS CHRIST!" ​

“That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye ​
may be sincere and without offence till The Day Of CHRIST!" ​

“Holding forth The WORD Of Life; that I may rejoice in The Day Of CHRIST ​
that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain." (Philippians 2:16)​

All According to The Mystery For The Body Of Christ!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

According To Prophecy for the nation of Israel:

The Day Of The LORD / "earthly" Israel / nations! in judgment /
wrath / battle / destruction / terror / DARKNESS / horror / pain! =

--------------------- Time Of JACOB's Trouble!!:

“The Day Of The LORD!” is common throughout the Old Testament.
The prophets referred constantly to it. In the New Testament,
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, Paul, and Peter referred to It! Some of
the Many Passages are the following:


compare: "That Day" in Isaiah 2:11, 17, 20, 3:18.

"That Day" is a time of terror, darkness, and wrath. It is a​
“day of visitation” (Isaiah 10:3), a “Day of the Wrath Of ​
The LORD!” (Ezekiel 7:19), THE “Great Day Of The LORD!”​
-------------
Finally, there is Also: "The Day Of God!":

"Looking for and hasting unto The Coming Of The Day Of God, ​
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the​
elements shall melt with fervent heat?" (2 Peter 3:12)​
---------
Conclusion, only one question: Should God's "children of Light"
(Ephesians 5:8; 1 Thessalonians 5:5) In The Body Of CHRIST,
Really prefer darkness (Woe!) Over LIGHT ( Comfort!! )?

Thus, we believe, with Paul, that our Departure To Glory Is
IMMINENT ( Could happen At Any Moment, No signs required )!
---------
Finally, God Admonishes ALL diligent Bible students:

"Prove ALL things; hold fast That Which Is Good!" (1 Thessalonians 5:21)​

------------------
Borrowed from (17-Part) God's Great Grace Departure
Part # 10 = Day of Christ vs Day of The Lord vs Day Of God

Amen.

Study Rightly Divided.png
 
civic said:
The NT refers to the day of the Lord as the day of His wrath. It’s a day of “wrath,” a day of “visitation,” and the “great day of God Almighty” (Revelation 16:14) and refers to the time when God’s wrath is poured out on unbelieving Israel during the great tribulation. See (Isaiah 22; Jeremiah 30:1-17; Joel 1-2; Amos 5; Zephaniah 1)

hope this helps !!!
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You are CORRECT and that Day begins after Christ Returns(2nd Coming) and gathers His Elect off the earth BEFORE the LORD Jesus Christ tramples the rebellion in His Wrath.

I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man,
hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks,
“Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Same DAY = two different outcomes
 

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