Yes, Calvinists—free will IS in the Bible.
- Thread starter Diserner
- Start date
I quoted what?
Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.
There is no word there about being born again before believing
And the Spirit is not received until faith
When one believes in Christ, they receive the Holy Spirit and are born again - made sons of God
John 1:12–13 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a husband, but of God.
Galatians 3:26–27 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)
Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 1:13–14 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.
Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
civic
Active Member
yes they have it all bass ackwards.
Very clearly one must first believe before they receive the Spirit
civic
Active Member
Amen to the truth
Regarding the phrase "he could not see (greek-εἶδον) the kingdom of God",
It does not mean he cannot understand the spiritual truth of what is needed to enter it.
Rather, Christ is speaking of what is needed to enter or experience it as per
John 3:5–7 (LEB) — 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly I say to you, unless someone is born of water and spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be astonished that I said to you, ‘It is necessary for you to be born from above.’
See - Greek εἶδον
5. see someth.=experience someth. (Ps 26:13); good days 1 Pt 3:10 (Ps 33:13; τ. βασιλείαν J 3:3. θάνατον see death=die Lk 2:26; Hb 11:5 (cf. Ps 88:49; Anth. Pal. 6, 230 ἰδεῖν Ἀίδην); grief Rv 18:7 (cf. 1 Macc 13:3 τὰς στενοχωρίας; Eccl 6:6 ἀγαθωσύνην). τὴν διαφθοράν experience decay=decay Ac 2:27, 31; 13:35-7 (all Ps 15:10); τ. ἡμέραν (Soph., Oed. R. 831; Aristoph., Pax 345; Polyb. 10, 4, 7; 32, 10, 9; Ael. Aristid. 32 p. 601 D.; Lam 2:16; Jos., Ant. 6, 305): τὴν ἡμέραν τ. ἐμήν J 8:56; μίαν τῶν ἡμερῶν Lk 17:22
Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early early christian literature
Genesis 2:7 (LEB) — 7 when Yahweh God formed the man of dust from the ground, and he blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
Never have I claimed spiritual death is the withdrawal of that breath of life from within man
So your claim is based upon a misunderstanding.
BTW here is another denominational view of spiritual death
Pentecostal
Spiritual death is a profound theological concept describing the separation of humanity from God due to sin. In biblical terms, “death” often means separation, with the first effect being spiritual death - sin separating humans from God, which subsequently brought physical death into the world1. The unsaved exist in a state of spiritual death, which represents the ultimate expression of the soul’s alienation from God2.
This separation has eternal consequences, as unrepentant sinners are subject to the “second death” - an eternal separation from God in the lake of fire1. The progression of spiritual death occurs when individuals allow their minds to dwell on temptations or wrong desires, which can lead to habitual sin and ultimately result in final separation from God1.
The remedy for this condition is love - loving God first and becoming a channel of His love to others through divine grace. As the Bible states, “God is love,” and only love can ultimately remedy sin2. Importantly, there is hope: everyone needs the salvation God has provided, and through Christ, we can walk in the light, have fellowship with God, and be purified from all sin1.
1
William W. Menzies, Bible Doctrines: A Pentecostal Perspective, ed. Stanley M. Horton (Springfield, MO: Logion Press, 1993), 91–92.
2
Bruce R. Marino, “The Origin, Nature, and Consequences of Sin,” in Systematic Theology: Revised Edition, ed. Stanley M. Horton (Springfield, MO: Logion Press, 2007), 288–289.
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@TomL @civic @FreeInChrist @Grace ambassador
1.) If it is true, one must believe to receive the Spirit, then I ask, why even give the Spirit, if spiritual acts pleasing to God (and faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law which we can and should do as children of God) can be done without the new man where the Spirit of God dwells?
2.) If one can do the works of the law, and faith is a work of the law, per: Matthew 23:23 ~ then salvation from sin and condemnation is by works and not grace. One cannot escape this conclusion regardless what they attempt to say.
This teaching goes against Jesus Christ, and his apostles teachings, such folks are fallen from grace, or the doctrine of pure grace.
Galatians 5:4
“Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
3.) If one can do God's commandments without without Christ being in them, the hope of glory, why did Christ even need to die, his death was in vain according to all who believes and teach that we can and must do spiritual acts pleasing to God "before" one is born of the Spirit?
4.) All who believes that we must do certain spiritual acts (faith is one of the weightier matter of the law of God) pleasing to God before one is born of the Spirit, do not hear the law of God properly.
No, folks who believe and teach that they must do this, that, or the other, before one can be saved from their sins, may think they know, and even boast that they do, while putting down men of God who stands on grace alone through the redemption work of Christ alone as the "only" means of our free justification before the law of God. God's elect are children of God's promises through Christ obedience and faith, not their! Listen to God's word:
That includes man's faith, which no man can have in the flesh, for that's impossible!
Who is so bold as to go against the word of the great apostle Paul?
We shall see, but, I'm not going to waste a lot of energy, with folks who refuse to acknowledge scriptures given that refutes their position.
That's impossible per the word of God in just about most of the NT epistles, not to mentioned the gospels and the OT. Consider and please answer with scriptures, the following points.
1.) If it is true, one must believe to receive the Spirit, then I ask, why even give the Spirit, if spiritual acts pleasing to God (and faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law which we can and should do as children of God) can be done without the new man where the Spirit of God dwells?
2.) If one can do the works of the law, and faith is a work of the law, per: Matthew 23:23 ~ then salvation from sin and condemnation is by works and not grace. One cannot escape this conclusion regardless what they attempt to say.
Matthew 23:23
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”1st John 3:23
“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”This teaching goes against Jesus Christ, and his apostles teachings, such folks are fallen from grace, or the doctrine of pure grace.
Galatians 5:4
“Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
3.) If one can do God's commandments without without Christ being in them, the hope of glory, why did Christ even need to die, his death was in vain according to all who believes and teach that we can and must do spiritual acts pleasing to God "before" one is born of the Spirit?
Galatians 2:20,21
“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”4.) All who believes that we must do certain spiritual acts (faith is one of the weightier matter of the law of God) pleasing to God before one is born of the Spirit, do not hear the law of God properly.
Galatians 4:21
“Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?”No, folks who believe and teach that they must do this, that, or the other, before one can be saved from their sins, may think they know, and even boast that they do, while putting down men of God who stands on grace alone through the redemption work of Christ alone as the "only" means of our free justification before the law of God. God's elect are children of God's promises through Christ obedience and faith, not their! Listen to God's word:
All who think, and teach that we are saved through the works of our flesh, shall NOT be heirs of the freewoman, children of God's promises by grace alone, through Christ's redemption work for them, by Christ securing eternal life for each one of them by his faith and obedience acting as their surety, NOT by any works of their own! The gospel in a nutshell is not John 3:16, but is found here:
Galatians 2:16
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”That includes man's faith, which no man can have in the flesh, for that's impossible!
Romans 7:18
“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”Romans 8:8
“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”Who is so bold as to go against the word of the great apostle Paul?
civic
Active Member
conflating faith and works again.
All these scriptures refute your POV and expose your errors.
faith always precedes life, healing, new birth, salvation, eternal life.
Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
Notice what comes first
1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.
John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.
John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows. See also John 5:24;40
John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.
Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.
Acts tells us the same order in Acts 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.
Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.
Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit
James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.
Jesus also taught that a persons faith comes before they are healed or saved. The saving/healing doesn't come before faith. Calvinism has it just the opposite.
Here is how some would rewrite Jesus words below and add to scripture things that were never said nor implied.
Parenthesis is Calvinism false assertion below that God gives faith. Jesus said it was THEIR faith that saved them.
Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith ( I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."
Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( I have given you ) has made you well!"
Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith( I have give you ) has healed you."
Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.
Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.
Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.
Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."
Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."
Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.
See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?
conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.
1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life
The Biblical Order Salutis
Summary of The Biblical order- notice where new life, regeneration is on the list from Scripture.
1- the preaching of the gospel- Rom 10
2- the hearing of the gospel- Rom 10
3- belief in the gospel- John 1:12
4- receiving the gospel- John 1:12
5- repentance Luke 5:32
6- the new birth that results in 7-9
7- salvation, eternal life- John 1:13
8- Justification- Rom 8:30
9- Sanctification- Rom 8
10- Glorification Rom 8:30
hope this helps !!!
Easily a change of character and more profound insight.
However It is entirely wrong to rationalize away what scripture clearly states.
The Spirit is stated to be received through faith
Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)
Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Faith is not a work of the law
For example from above
Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
additionally
Romans 3:28 (LEB) — 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Galatians 2:16 (LEB) — 16 but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.
Romans 3:27 (LEB) — 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
Romans 3:28 (LEB) — 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 4:5 (LEB) — 5 But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness,
Romans 9:32 (LEB) — 32 Why that? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if by works. They stumbled over the stone that causes people to stumble,
As for your verse
Matthew 23:23 (LEB) — 23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees—hypocrites!—because you pay a tenth of mint and dill and cumin, and neglect the more important matters of the law—justice and mercy and faithfulness! It was necessary to do these things while not neglecting those.
faithfulness to the law is a very important matter if one is trying to earn righteousness
It is not good exegesis to overlook multiple verses and override them by a single verse that is better understood by its consistency with the rest of scripture.
Matthew 23:23 (NASB95) — 23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.
Matthew 23:23 (LEB) — 23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees—hypocrites!—because you pay a tenth of mint and dill and cumin, and neglect the more important matters of the law—justice and mercy and faithfulness! It was necessary to do these things while not neglecting those.
Matthew 23:23 (UASV) — 23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness. These things it was necessary to do, yet not to disregard the other things.
Matthew 23:23 (NIV) — 23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Matthew 23:23 (ESV) — 23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
Matthew 23:23 (LSB) — 23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the Law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Well, that was a lot of posting and reading for not wasting a lot of energy.
YOU SAID "We shall see, but, I'm not going to waste a lot of energy, with folks who refuse to acknowledge scriptures given that refutes their position. "
Right back at you because you never acknowledge the scriptures given that refutes "your position. "
Where you energy should be spent is not trying to refute the scriptures we post but in study to learn how our side blends with
yours, and where they are irreconcilably at odds in the bible. Because we stand on the written word of God as well as ytou standing on the written word of God and personally I do not believe God's word can be at odds with itself, UNLESS
it is by divine purpose.
You would be surprised.... Possible even blessedly so.
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civic
Active Member
Amen its IRREFUTABLE
It certainly appears that way
@FreeInChrist @civic
Take what I provided and show me how it is not the truth. Is that asking too much from you, @civic, etc.
Let me ask you a question based on this scripture:
Question: What did Isaac do in order to be born of the freewoman? Need help? He did absolutely not one deed, no, not one!
Children of God's promises are born exactly in the same manner Isaac was, without the will of the man and without the will of another man, but totally of God's promises of free grace to Abraham! I have more to say on this, but I'll keep it until I need to use it. Sarah's womb was past dead, yet God's power cause her to release eggs for this one instance, and Isaac was born on the exact time that God promised he would be.
A son of God's promises to Christ!
That statement is not so, and you of all people should know I address all scriptures given to me; I'm not going to address the same scriptures over and over again which God is my witness. that I have many times, especially so to Mr. Tom, whom I give space because of his age, but, I'm going to be more selective addressing scripture taht has not been put before me more than two or three times. ~I'm getting old also, and not sure how much more time I have, so, I must use it wisely.
Take what I provided and show me how it is not the truth. Is that asking too much from you, @civic, etc.
Prove it with what I have given to you, without trying to disprove what God's word actually said by searching through the garbage of many translation in Mystery Babylon just to find a false bible to agree with your corrupt understanding of the scriptures. Shame on you for doing so, I thought more of your than doing what many false prophets do in order to corrupt God's precious truths.
No Mr. civic, I stand upon God's truth and I'm careful not to steal glory from our Lord Jesus Christ, by adding my works with being saved from sin and condemnation, where the sinner has no part in this salvation, God alone quickens dead sinners to life by His almighty power, without the help of the will of the flesh, (wherein there is NO good thing) or the will of man, or the preacher, soul winner (?) etc.
You keep copying and pasting the same scriptures which we have already addressed and not going to keep doing so.
We reject this false gospel, and but more than that, so does God!
Let me ask you a question based on this scripture:
Galatians 4:28
“Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.”Question: What did Isaac do in order to be born of the freewoman? Need help? He did absolutely not one deed, no, not one!
Children of God's promises are born exactly in the same manner Isaac was, without the will of the man and without the will of another man, but totally of God's promises of free grace to Abraham! I have more to say on this, but I'll keep it until I need to use it. Sarah's womb was past dead, yet God's power cause her to release eggs for this one instance, and Isaac was born on the exact time that God promised he would be.
A son of God's promises to Christ!
civic
Active Member
Truth is truth , those scriptures are true and you have not addressed one single verse that placed faith before salvation . You run from them without any exegesis
Believing on the name of Jesus and loving one another goes against Christ?????????????
John 6:29 (LEB) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe in the one whom that one sent.”
John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.
Jn 13:34 | “A new commandment I give to you: that you love one another—just as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
1 Jn 3:11 | For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning: that we should love one another,
One cannot be justified by law but by faith
Rom 5:1Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal 2:16but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.
And no one believes man without Christ being in them is capable of living beyond his old nature
2 Cor 5:17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.
Gal 2:20and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me, and that life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Rom 6:6–7knowing this, that our old man was crucified together with him, in order that the body of sin may be done away with, that we may no longer be enslaved to sin. For the one who has died has been freed from sin.
Eph 4:22–24that you take off, according to your former way of life, the old man, who is being destroyed according to deceitful desires, be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new man (in accordance with God), who is created in righteousness and holiness from the truth.
You are arguing based upon a previous misunderstanding.
Faith is not a work of the law.
Time and time again scripture contradicts the two.
Scripture
John 3:16
For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.
Eph 2:8–9
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.
Rom 10:9–10
that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.
Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”
Mark 16:16
The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
John 11:25–26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”
1 Cor 15:1–2
Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose.
Eph 1:13–14
in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.
shows faith precedes salvation (eternal life)
You are arguing based on theology
Scripture shows he can
Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,
Romans 10:8–13 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”
John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Balderdash. I am older then you are so I will be with Grams greeting you at the Pearly gates.
As far as you addressing scriptures... YOU SAID "We shall see, but, I'm not going to waste a lot of energy, with folks who refuse to acknowledge scriptures given that refutes their position. "
I address every scripture that has merit, and by that I mean those that not only back up my side but those that you might post that also backs up my sides scriptures that play hand and hand with our beliefs.
You do not even try to make them even be sympathetic to each other because you are firm in your resolve.
And before you ask... no I will not because been there done that = ignored.
There is only one scripture that I will never address again unless The Hly Spirit makes me.... (yes, He influences much of what I say) Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better then AI.
And that scripture is JN 6:44 also 65
Um, I do not believe you are anywhere close to having successfully addressed the many scriptures I gave you or my counterarguments to what you did post.
Age? How old do you think I am?
@TomL
Tom, you know, and I know, context is very important in order to come unto the knowledge of the truth, so let us consider the context in which Acts 2:38 is spoken.
Peter preached a short, but powerful message concerning the phenomenal thing taken place there on Pentecost, which every man from around fifteen nations heard the Galileans speak in every man's language which were there the wonderful works of God.
Peter used this to preach unto Jesus and him crucified and highly exalted to God's right hand~ as both Lord and Christ. When many heard this, they were pricked in their hearts, and said:
In order to see the truth that is recorded here, we must comapred other scriptures to guide us into the truth of what we see in Acts 2:28. Please consider:
The word for is not in order to obtain, (as many desire to make it to mean, in order to support their bias agenda) but the sense is "because of"....Peter knew that God had quickened them to life because of what he saw in their desire to do whatever it took to please God, so he told them to repent and be baptized, and they too would receive the knowledge of the same gift that they (apostle and others with them) were showing forth by speaking in other tongues.
For is mostly used in the scriptures to mean because of. Example:
Tom, I will address this scripture since I do not believe I have with you as of yet, the others I have more than once.
Tom, you know, and I know, context is very important in order to come unto the knowledge of the truth, so let us consider the context in which Acts 2:38 is spoken.
Peter preached a short, but powerful message concerning the phenomenal thing taken place there on Pentecost, which every man from around fifteen nations heard the Galileans speak in every man's language which were there the wonderful works of God.
Peter used this to preach unto Jesus and him crucified and highly exalted to God's right hand~ as both Lord and Christ. When many heard this, they were pricked in their hearts, and said:
Acts 2:37
“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?”In order to see the truth that is recorded here, we must comapred other scriptures to guide us into the truth of what we see in Acts 2:28. Please consider:
In Acts 7, we have recorded for us one of the most powerful sermons ever preached outside of the Sermon on the Mount. What I want you to consider Tom, is the different spirits in those in Acts 2:37, and those here in Acts 7:51-60. Those on Acts 7, end up killing Stephen, thos ein Ats 2;37, had a totally different spirit, they wanted to know what must they do in order to please God, and Peter told them. My point is this, Peter, begin a man of God KNEW the signs of a born again child of God, and by the fact they came to the apostles with a broken and contrite spirit, Peter instructed them with these words:
Acts 2:38
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”The word for is not in order to obtain, (as many desire to make it to mean, in order to support their bias agenda) but the sense is "because of"....Peter knew that God had quickened them to life because of what he saw in their desire to do whatever it took to please God, so he told them to repent and be baptized, and they too would receive the knowledge of the same gift that they (apostle and others with them) were showing forth by speaking in other tongues.
For is mostly used in the scriptures to mean because of. Example:
Mark 1:44
“And saith unto him, See thou say nothing to any man: but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.”Scripture is clear: salvation, justification, righteousness, reception of the Spirit are all by faith
John 3:16
For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.
Eph 2:8–9
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.
Rom 10:9–10
that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.
Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”
Mark 16:16
The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
1 Peter 1:3–5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you 5 who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,
Rom 3:22–24
that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
Gal 2:16
but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.
John 11:25–26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”
2 Thess 2:13
But we ought to give thanks to God always concerning you, brothers dearly loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you as first fruits for salvation by the sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth,
Acts 13:39
by this one everyone who believes is justified!
Rom 4:5
But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness,
1 Cor 15:1–2
Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose.
Eph 1:13–14
in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.
2 Tim 3:15
and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
John 20:31
but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Acts 15:11
But we believe we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way those also are.”
Gal 3:22
But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe.
Acts 13:38–39
“Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!
Acts 10:43
To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”
Acts 26:18
to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
Romans 3:23–25
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,
Rom 5:1
Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)
Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)
Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
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