Yes, Calvinists—free will IS in the Bible.

[Presby02]

One in the same

Nope. Incorrect and you have yet to cite a source saying otherwise.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Point out in the text where it says "can come".

I specifically did not say "can come". That was another .

But here.... a little light reading for you.

• Matthew 11:28-30 (NKJV): “Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
• Jesus invites all who are weary to come to Him, indicating that salvation is accessible to anyone willing to respond.

Do you deny that Jesus said all can come?
How about John 7:37: "If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink."

Do you deny that Jesus said all can come?

Or, Revelation 22:17: "Let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price."

Do you deny that this says all can come?

And can you deny if you are invited to come, that also indicates you cab come?

Verses Inviting People to Come​

Matthew 11:28	"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest."
Isaiah 55:1	"Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy and eat!"
John 7:37	"Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink."
Matthew 19:14	"Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

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Verse Reference​

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Verses on Divine Invitation​

James 4:8	"Come near to God and he will come near to you."
John 6:44	"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them."
Revelation 3:20	"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person."

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Verse Reference​

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[TomL]

You know the verse. LOL

Who is the "they" in the passage referring to?

LOL Post it

In the verse I posted it those who are told to choose life that they may live

As shown, scripture states they may do it.

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (NASB95) — 11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”


Your theology, of course, argues they cannot unless first being made alive spiritually (regenerated).
Such theology is contrary to the passage.

 

[TomL]

Irrelevant to the fact they are not synonymous terms. Thanks for chiming in though.

You are dodging

And it is but one term I am mentioning so

Deal with the facts

In your doctrine

There is nothing that can actually exist within man that can enable him to come to Jesus.

Thus he has no natural ability.

Hiding behind a claim that he could if he wanted to is insufficient in that

Your doctrine affirms man can have no such desire.

 

[TomL]

Sure there is. You could if you wanted to but you don't. Natural vs moral ability.

Um, according to your doctrine, it is not possible you could want to.

So you are simply dodging the issue.

 

[TomL]

You said can come to Him. Are you retracting your obvious error?

Of course, how is it we come to hear and learn from the Father? The things of God only understood by the Spirit? When the Spirit chooses to reveal them to us.

Don't dodge your doctrine

Your doctrine holds you must first be regenerated, that is, made alive, before you can believe

Of which I stated

Which is a refutation of your theology that man must first be made alive, that is, regenerated, before he can come

Men are taught by

John 6:45 (NASB95) — 45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

hearing and learning

John 20:30–31 (NASB95) — 30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

contrariwise, to your doctrine we see

Those who believe Moses

John 5:46 (LEB) — 46 For if you had believed Moses, you would believe me, for that one wrote about me.

Would believe Jesus

Those who had God as their father

John 8:42 (LEB) — 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I have come forth from God and have come. For I have not come from myself, but that one sent me.

Would love Jesus

Those desiring the will of God

John 7:17 (LEB) — 17 If anyone wants to do his will, he will know about my teaching, whether it is from God or I am speaking from myself.

Would know Christ's words are true.

And my doctrine is not your doctrine

In my doctrine, men can

In yours, they cannot unless regenerated and made alive.

 

[TomL]

He has the natural ability but not the moral ability. He could come if he wanted to.

He can have such a desire with a heart change. God acts first.

Sorry, you cannot have a natural ability if there is no ability that you can do so unless first changed.

 

[TomL]

Correct, they are the same ones the Father draws from Vs 44, which are His children, thats why He is called the Father, He isnt Just the Father of Jesus Christ, but of all He gives the son 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

The children Heb 2 13-14

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And Isa 54 13 Identifies the ones in Jn 6:45 as children and if so, then its children in Vs 44


13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Those who are already the Father's will indeed believe and come to Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Those who are already the Father's will indeed believe and come to Christ.

Thats the elect, they have always been the children of the father even in their lost dead condition. Like the prodigal son, he was always the Fathers loved son even when lost and dead Lk 15 24

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

 

[TomL]

Thats the elect, they have always been the children of the father even in their lost dead condition. Like the prodigal son, he was always the Fathers loved son even when lost and dead Lk 15 24

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

They are elect when they are in Christ, not before.

BTW, the prodigal son of the Father was dead until he returned.

 

[brightfame52]

They are elect when they are in Christ, not before.

BTW, the prodigal son of the Father was dead until he returned.

The elect has always been in Christ as His Body

 

[TomL]

The elect has always been in Christ as His Body

Sorry but unbelievers cannot be in Christ

Romans 8:9 (LEB) — 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.

2 Corinthians 1:21–22 (LEB) — 21 Now the one who establishes us together with you in Christ and who anoints us is God, 22 who also sealed us and gave the down payment of the Spirit in our hearts.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry but unbelievers cannot be in Christ

You are wrong, all the elect are in Christ as unbelievers, Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4 His Body

 

[TomL]

You are wrong, all the elect are in Christ as unbelievers, Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4 His Body

Sorry, but unbelievers are not in Christ.

Ephesians 1:4 (LEB) — 4 just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love,

God chose that those in Christ would be holy and blameless before him in love

Galatians 3:26–27 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

unbelievers are not baptized into Christ.

One must drink therefore receive the Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Romans 8:9 (LEB) — 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.

Indeed if the Spirit is not in you, you do not belong to Christ

 

[civic]

Sorry, but unbelievers are not in Christ.

Ephesians 1:4 (LEB) — 4 just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love,

God chose that those in Christ would be holy and blameless before him in love

Galatians 3:26–27 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

unbelievers are not baptized into Christ.

One must drink therefore receive the Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Romans 8:9 (LEB) — 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.

Indeed if the Spirit is not in you, you do not belong to Christ

Amen

 

[TomL]

Amen

His theology gets more and more twisted

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, but unbelievers are not in Christ.

Yes they are, if elect, and Christ seed. The elect were Christs seed when He died for them Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

They were His seed b4 they were born into the world in unbelief, but He redeemed them from it, so each one will become believers giving evidence they are His seed, you have to be one of His seed to become a believer.

 

[Presby02]

Sorry, you cannot have a natural ability if there is no ability that you can do so unless first changed.

Sure you can. You have yet to explain why not. A alcoholic could quit drinking, natural ability, if he wanted to but is not willing to do so.

 

[Presby02]

Don't dodge your doctrine

Your doctrine holds you must first be regenerated, that is, made alive, before you can believe

Of which I stated



And my doctrine is not your doctrine

In my doctrine, men can

In yours, they cannot unless regenerated and made alive.

What am i dodging? I agree with you. You must first be regenerated. LOL

 

[Presby02]

Sorry, you cannot have a natural ability if there is no ability that you can do so unless first changed.

Um, according to your doctrine, it is not possible you could want to.

So you are simply dodging the issue.

It is possible you could want to, with a change of heart.