You didnt provide one verse stating man has a freewill to believe in Christ, and you cant since Jesus says Jn 6:44,65
John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6::65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
You have never explained your understanding of who exactly it is that comes to Jesus .
We can be certain that this drawing, that has been universally accepted ( for convenience I suspect) happens as specified on the last day.
When is the last day?
Many speculate that would be at the Rapture.
The promise that Jesus will “raise him up on the last day” also appears three other times in the same context, in verses 39, 40, and 54.
In In
John 6:39–40.... Jesus speaks about the Father’s eternal will and purpose for those who come to the Son.
He says, “This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me but
raise it up on the last day.
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will
raise him up on the last day”. The repetition of
raise him up at the last day indicates the sureness of the promise.
Jesus gives a guarantee that those who look to (and believe in) Him will be resurrected unto eternal life.
There is NO MENTION OF HOW THOSE COME TO THE SON.
I firmly believe that once we believe, once we are born again then we are of God.
Clarifying this....I see "born again" refering to a spiritual rebirth that is attributed to the operation of the Holy Spirit, which is often understood as being from God. This concept is rooted in the teachings of Jesus, particularly in the Gospel of John, where He explains that one must be born of water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom of God.
Jesus so emphasized the spiritual rebirth to Nicodemus, if you recall.
But at the same time ,to be born again of God, one must believe in Jesus Christ, as this belief is essential for receiving the new life that comes from God. This concept is emphasized in John 3:3, where Jesus states that one must be "born again" to see the kingdom of God.
THE THREE , FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT ,ARE ALL TIED TOGETHER IN THIS, BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS DISCUSSION IS ABOUT.
You are adamant that man cannot believe in Jesus, no matter what, unless God predetermines that to happen and makes it happen because you cannot accept that free-will is true.
The very verses that I expanded from
@TomL's post that you also would not venture into absolutely prove there is free will.
what do you think these words mean
1. Choose for yourselves
2. So choose life,
3. did not choose
4. they did not see fit to recognize God
5. when they refused
6. The one who listens, and the one who rejects
7. constantly resist
8. do not harden your hearts
What do you think these mean...
these people were told to make a decision and that means these people had free will.
Your big verses are
John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6::65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
But these do not do what YOU think that they do. They are not proof that God the Father is the one who has predetermined who he will give to His Son.
Jesus said.
John 6:37 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
Nothing in these 3 verses denies the importance of the Heavenly Father and Jesus in the Eternal life of those who believe.
Nothing in these verses denies that our belief can come from free will for once we are BORN AGAIN, we are God's and he will do with us on the last day whatever he wishes. This born again thing signifies a spiritual transformation and a new identity in Christ, allowing us to live in a way that reflects God's character.
It is so important to study the foreknowledge of God and free-will.
I'll close with a great verse applicable to this subject
John 10:28-29
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish.
No one can snatch them out of My hand. / My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all.
No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
And now reread it a couple of times and keep this in mind for another subject that gets hotly debated on here.
