World = US = John 3:16

[TomL]

What you're doing is misinterpreting Jesus' words. He said, "I PRAY NOT FOR THE WORLD."
So, you want to twist Jesus' words and have him contradict himself in order to uphold your false theology.
Non-Hebrew Gentiles were never in the Abraham Covenant now were they ever in the Mosaic Covenant and now that the New Covenant has been established it is a covenant between God and the House of Israel and Judah. Gentiles are not Israel or Judah.

There, but here he prays for the world

John 17:20–23 (LEB) — 20 “And I do not ask on behalf of these only, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one—23 I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:31–33.

Learn to read.

Perhaps you should first learn yourself before instructing others

Ephesians 2:11–19 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God,

Acts 15:13–18 (LEB) — 13 And after they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, “Men and brothers, listen to me! 14 Simeon has described how God first concerned himself to take from among the Gentiles a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 ‘After these things I will return and build up again the tent of David that has fallen, and the parts of it that had been torn down I will build up again and will restore it, 17 so that the rest of humanity may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.’

Romans 9:23–26 (LEB) — 23 And he did so in order that he could make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy that he prepared beforehand for glory, 24 us whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he also says in Hosea, “I will call those who were not my people, ‘My people,’ and those who were not loved, ‘Loved.’ 26 And it will be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ ”

Galatians 3:8–9 (LEB) — 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.” 9 So then, the ones who have faith are blessed together with Abraham who believed.

 

[TomL]

Im showing you truth now and you still cant see it, you are deceived into ethnic , flesh salvation, whereas these matters are spiritual

For once, I must agree with brightfame52

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

There, but here he prays for the world

John 17:20–23 (LEB) — 20 “And I do not ask on behalf of these only, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one—23 I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.

Not for all the world, but for them which shall believe on Him through the Apostles testimony Jn 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

This also condemns your notion that Christ didnt have Sheep that were unbelievers, these He prayed for had not yet believed, but they shall believe, they were His Sheep, many that were Gentiles

 

[Jay]

A person has to have life b4 they can act, how can a dead person confess with their mouth ?

Dean in sin. Sinners can talk and believe in the Gospel. But remember Calvinism is a self-defeating, incoherent, slippery doctrine that has slithered its way into the church. Sorry you fell for it.

 

[brightfame52]

@Jay

Sinners can talk and believe in the Gospel.

Not spiritually, since they are spiritually dead. Anything of action from them is of the flesh, which cannot please God friend.

 

[Jay]

Jesus paid our sin debt.

Christ paid the price to free us from the curse that the laws in Moses’ by becoming cursed instead of us. Scripture says, “Everyone who is hung on a tree is cursed.” Christ paid the price so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to all the people of the world through Jesus Christ and we would receive the promised Spirit through faith.

So we can believe the gospel.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus paid our sin debt.

Christ paid the price to free us from the curse that the laws in Moses’ by becoming cursed instead of us. Scripture says, “Everyone who is hung on a tree is cursed.” Christ paid the price so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to all the people of the world through Jesus Christ and we would receive the promised Spirit through faith.

So we can believe the gospel.

Thats for a particular seed, the seed of Abraham !

 

[jeremiah1five]

Im showing you truth now and you still cant see it, you are deceived into ethnic , flesh salvation, whereas these matters are spiritual

You do what democrats do. They take the truth and make it a lie.
Clearly according to the text in Galatians chapter 3 Saul is addressing Jews who are under a "schoolmaster: and under the Law [of Moses.]
But you are free to believe lies.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The New Covenant, the House of Israel is the Church, the Body of Christ, Gods elect from among all races, nations, families of the earth

The Church (Greek "ekklesia" means "called out [ones]") identify the children of Israel who were called out of Egypt by God and later - even while in the desert with Moses - are called the "Great Congregation" in the Old Testament.

65 And at that time Solomon held a feast, and all Israel with him, a great congregation, from the entering in of Hamath unto the river of Egypt, before the LORD our God, seven days and seven days, even fourteen days.
1 Kings 8:65.

8 Also at the same time Solomon kept the feast seven days, and all Israel with him, a very great congregation, from the entering in of Hamath unto the river of Egypt.
2 Ch 7: 8.

1 Now when Ezra had prayed, and when he had confessed, weeping and casting himself down before the house of God, there assembled unto him out of Israel a very great congregation of men and women and children: for the people wept very sore.
Ezra 10:1.

Sounds like a covenant people of God having "church" to me.

Moses was called out, Jesus was called out, this is not hard to understand. When going from Hebrew to Greek the words "called out" - as Moses, Israel, and Jesus out of Egypt - is not that hard to comprehend, BUT ONLY if you are honest with Scripture.

 

[jeremiah1five]

There, but here he prays for the world

John 17:20–23 (LEB) — 20 “And I do not ask on behalf of these only, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one—23 I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.

I like the way you make God and Jesus contradict themselves. But deceiving and deceived men do that to Scripture. Jesus clearly says, "I pray NOT for the world" and then you make "world" [of Jews] refer to non-Hebrew Gentiles. But there is no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles in ALL of the Old Testament. It is hard to make the Old Testament read as though God is speaking to Gentiles when the Old Testament is written in the Hebrew language, the language of the Hebrew people. Maybe the New Testament written in Greek is addressed only to the Greek people excluding every other people such as the Latin Italy (Romans) or the Barbarians in northern and western Europe. You are very dishonest with Scripture. You should study.

Perhaps you should first learn yourself before instructing others

Ephesians 2:11–19 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God,

Where in the New Testament are mixed heritage Hebrews identified? They are Abraham's seed. Does God ignore them completely? Maybe God lied to Abraham and didn't really mean [Abraham's] seed would also be in this covenant? Maybe God has attitude against Samaritans just like the Jews did. Samaritans are mixed heritage. They are mixed heritage Hebrews consisting of the ten northern kingdom tribes and Assyrians. Sure, God is so cruel to scatter His covenant people into Gentile lands only to make their mixed heritage a reason to exclude them from the promises He made to Abraham.

Acts 15:13–18 (LEB) — 13 And after they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, “Men and brothers, listen to me! 14 Simeon has described how God first concerned himself to take from among the Gentiles a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 ‘After these things I will return and build up again the tent of David that has fallen, and the parts of it that had been torn down I will build up again and will restore it, 17 so that the rest of humanity may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.’

Romans 9:23–26 (LEB) — 23 And he did so in order that he could make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy that he prepared beforehand for glory, 24 us whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he also says in Hosea, “I will call those who were not my people, ‘My people,’ and those who were not loved, ‘Loved.’ 26 And it will be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ ”

Galatians 3:8–9 (LEB) — 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.” 9 So then, the ones who have faith are blessed together with Abraham who believed.

The context is the children of Israel. They have covenant with God, and they are the subject matter.
It is an interesting fact that God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Old Testament and all of a sudden people want to claim "Gentiles" as being in the Abraham Covenant by misreading Galatians 3:28-29.
Notice it says "neither Jew nor Greek" referring to ONLY GREEK people. So, what about Englishmen, or French, or Germans? They are not Greek, so I guess they are asped out.

 

[brightfame52]

You do what democrats do. They take the truth and make it a lie.
Clearly according to the text in Galatians chapter 3 Saul is addressing Jews who are under a "schoolmaster: and under the Law [of Moses.]
But you are free to believe lies.

Im showing you the truth as a servant of God

 

[jeremiah1five]

Im showing you the truth as a servant of God

Have Gentiles ever been under the Law of Moses?
No, they have not.
Therefore, Saul's letter in Galatians chapter 3 is addressed to the Jews, right?
Right. Because Gentiles have never been under the Law. Therefore, Saul's mentioning "schoolmaster" and "the Law" is referring to Jews, right?
Right.
Therefore, when Saul says in chapter 3 about "heirs to the promise" he is referring to Jews, right?
Right.
So, why do you insert Gentiles when Gentiles have never been under a schoolmaster (the Law) and never under the Law at all?
You're the one adding Gentiles where Gentiles are not being mentioned in Galatians 3, especially 3:28-29.
You are adding to the bible, not me.

 

[brightfame52]

Have Gentiles ever been under the Law of Moses?
No, they have not.
Therefore, Saul's letter in Galatians chapter 3 is addressed to the Jews, right?
Right. Because Gentiles have never been under the Law. Therefore, Saul's mentioning "schoolmaster" and "the Law" is referring to Jews, right?
Right.
Therefore, when Saul says in chapter 3 about "heirs to the promise" he is referring to Jews, right?
Right.
So, why do you insert Gentiles when Gentiles have never been under a schoolmaster (the Law) and never under the Law at all?
You're the one adding Gentiles where Gentiles are not being mentioned in Galatians 3, especially 3:28-29.
You are adding to the bible, not me.

You stuck on the flesh friend, Paul said Phil 3:4-5

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Now notice carefully he calls confidence in the flesh and trust in the flesh.

Now notice what God says about trusting in the flesh Jer 17:5

Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

Now I dont want that to be you friend

 

[TomL]

I like the way you make God and Jesus contradict themselves. But deceiving and deceived men do that to Scripture. Jesus clearly says, "I pray NOT for the world" and then you make "world" [of Jews] refer to non-Hebrew Gentiles. But there is no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles in ALL of the Old Testament. It is hard to make the Old Testament read as though God is speaking to Gentiles when the Old Testament is written in the Hebrew language, the language of the Hebrew people. Maybe the New Testament written in Greek is addressed only to the Greek people excluding every other people such as the Latin Italy (Romans) or the Barbarians in northern and western Europe. You are very dishonest with Scripture. You should study.

I can't say I like the way you ignore context

In one section he is not praying for the world, in the other he is

Perhaps you should be studying and refraining from dishonesty and actually deal with the scripture posted

John 17:21–23 (LEB) — 21 that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one—23 I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.

What prevents you from seeing Christ praying that the world may believe the father sent Christ and that the world know that the Father loves them

Hello

 

[Behold]

God made the world.
This is a fact.

Now how did God create the world?
= "God Spoke".

And who is this?
A.) "The Word became flesh".

Now who created the World?
A.) "HE" did. (The one who ""became FLESH"")

John 1:10..
New International Version
He was in the world, and though the world was made through HIM, the world did not recognize him.

New Living Translation
He came into the very world created, but the world didn’t recognize him.

English Standard Version
He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.

Berean Standard Bible
He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.

Berean Literal Bible
He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and the world did not know Him.

King James Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

New King James Version
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

New American Standard Bible
He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and yet the world did not know Him.

NASB 1995
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

NASB 1977
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

Legacy Standard Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

Amplified Bible
He (Christ) was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.

Christian Standard Bible
He was in the world, and the world was created through him, and yet the world did not recognize him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He was in the world, and the world was created through Him, yet the world did not recognize Him.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You stuck on the flesh friend, Paul said Phil 3:4-5

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Now notice carefully he calls confidence in the flesh and trust in the flesh.

Now notice what God says about trusting in the flesh Jer 17:5

Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

Now I dont want that to be you friend

Two different meanings.

Saul connects his flesh to God by declaring his association and obedience with the twelve tribes who are blessed of God. As a born-again believer Saul remained a rabbi and Pharisee and in hjigh standing in the Law and among his brethren under the Law:

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:23–24.

Saul was also a man who was "separated" unto God which implies he was of the Nazarene sect in Judaism:

1 PAUL, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Rom. 1:1.

Yes, Saul remained obedient to the Law of Moses, as all the apostles and Jews were who were born-again.
Thousands and thousands of Jews daily became born-again and recommitment to the Law of Moses was made by all:

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Acts 21:20.

Without getting too deep into this let me just say that the Law is spiritual:

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Romans 7:14.

Being "carnal sold under sin" is what He was before his spiritual conversion to Christ ("Anointing.") But he became a spiritual being (as all Christians do) when they are born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise. This means that before "the letter killeth" because men were flesh, but as spiritual beings the Law which is spiritual cannot kill a born-again believer anymore; and what Saul said about the "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Col. 2:14) does not mean the Law died with Jesus, but that through His sacrifice the PERSON underwent real spiritual conversion (when born-again) and when Christ arose, so did the new man became spiritual and untouchable when (born-again) and in this we find our justification (by God as having obeyed all the Law) and through the Spirit of Promise we are daily dying to our flesh and living a sanctified life being conformed daily into the image of Christ ("Anointing.")


Jeremiah is talking about those who have departed (in disobedience) from the Lord and rely entirely upon themselves.

Those that remain obedient (Saul) are more than conquerors, those who do not (Jeremiah) will fail in more ways than one.

 

[brightfame52]

Two different meanings.

Saul connects his flesh to God by declaring his association and obedience with the twelve tribes who are blessed of God. As a born-again believer Saul remained a rabbi and Pharisee and in hjigh standing in the Law and among his brethren under the Law:

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:23–24.

Saul was also a man who was "separated" unto God which implies he was of the Nazarene sect in Judaism:

1 PAUL, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Rom. 1:1.

Yes, Saul remained obedient to the Law of Moses, as all the apostles and Jews were who were born-again.
Thousands and thousands of Jews daily became born-again and recommitment to the Law of Moses was made by all:

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Acts 21:20.

Without getting too deep into this let me just say that the Law is spiritual:

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Romans 7:14.

Being "carnal sold under sin" is what He was before his spiritual conversion to Christ ("Anointing.") But he became a spiritual being (as all Christians do) when they are born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise. This means that before "the letter killeth" because men were flesh, but as spiritual beings the Law which is spiritual cannot kill a born-again believer anymore; and what Saul said about the "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Col. 2:14) does not mean the Law died with Jesus, but that through His sacrifice the PERSON underwent real spiritual conversion (when born-again) and when Christ arose, so did the new man became spiritual and untouchable when (born-again) and in this we find our justification (by God as having obeyed all the Law) and through the Spirit of Promise we are daily dying to our flesh and living a sanctified life being conformed daily into the image of Christ ("Anointing.")


Jeremiah is talking about those who have departed (in disobedience) from the Lord and rely entirely upon themselves.

Those that remain obedient (Saul) are more than conquerors, those who do not (Jeremiah) will fail in more ways than one.

Unfortunately you have confidence in the flesh

 

[jeremiah1five]

I can't say I like the way you ignore context

In one section he is not praying for the world, in the other he is

Perhaps you should be studying and refraining from dishonesty and actually deal with the scripture posted

John 17:21–23 (LEB) — 21 that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one—23 I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.

What prevents you from seeing Christ praying that the world may believe the father sent Christ and that the world know that the Father loves them

Hello

Does he say He prays for the world in this chapter as definitively as He says He does not pray for the world in your twisted version?
Show me where He says that " pray for the world" in the same positive language as when He says negatively, " pray not for the world"?

Show me.

The time to say "I pray for the world is right in these verses.
Jesus is sanctifying three groups of people here:
1. Himself.
2. His disciples.
3. Those that will come to Jesus through their testimony (a prophecy that was fulfilled beginning in Acts 2 with Peter's sermon.)

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
John 17:1.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:8–12.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 17:20.

Jesus is performing the work of the High Priest. Under the Law the high priest prayed for the children of Israel. He NEVER prayed for the world of non-Hebrew Gentiles. NEVER.
If Jesus is praying for non-Hebrew Gentiles then Jesus is not fulfilling the Law, BUT CHANGING IT to include non-Hebrews. This sin would have kept Him in the grave.

Under the Law the high priest prayed for the children of Israel and only the children of Israel.
The high priest NEVER prayed for the non-Hebrew "world" for Gentiles were NEVER under the Law.
Is Jesus adding to the Law and thus changing it to include non-Hebrew Gentiles?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Unfortunately you have confidence in the flesh

I already answered. You are infected with your own flesh and false doctrine.

 

[brightfame52]

I already answered. You are infected with your own flesh and false doctrine.

Doesnt matter if you deny it, your confidence is in the flesh, ethnicity