"Works Salvation"

Seabass said:
yet there are those who claim obedience is not a cause of salvation.
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God's love is the cause of salvation. We just follow His plan of salvation. I believe that people who are not interested in the plan of salvation as such, are robbing themselves of a great deal.

In Acts 16:31, a man asked the apostle Paul how to be saved. Paul’s response was, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.” The way to follow God’s plan of salvation is to believe. That is the only requirement God has provided for our salvation through Jesus Christ. All we must do is receive it, by faith, fully trusting in Jesus alone as Savior. That is God’s plan of salvation.
 
Obedience is not extrinsically the cause or the result of salvation, but rather it is intrinsically the content of the gift of salvation. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly.
 
Jay said:
God's love is the cause of salvation. We just follow His plan of salvation. I believe that people who are not interested in the plan of salvation as such, are robbing themselves of a great deal.

In Acts 16:31, a man asked the apostle Paul how to be saved. Paul’s response was, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.” The way to follow God’s plan of salvation is to believe. That is the only requirement God has provided for our salvation through Jesus Christ. All we must do is receive it, by faith, fully trusting in Jesus alone as Savior. That is God’s plan of salvation.
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God's plan of salvation requires obedience to the gospel, 2 Thess 1:8. The man in Acts 16 believed, repented and was baptized (obeyed the gospel) belief therefore is not the only requirement.

Belief is obedience (Jn 3:36), not just a mental assent of the mind (mental agreement) and nothing more.
 
Seabass said:
God's plan of salvation requires obedience to the gospel, 2 Thess 1:8. The man in Acts 16 believed, repented and was baptized (obeyed the gospel) belief therefore is not the only requirement.

Belief is obedience (Jn 3:36), not just a mental assent of the mind (mental agreement) and nothing more.
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The gospel is not made effective through our obedience but by the obedience of Christ.

This is also true...
Why are not all saved? Is it man’s lack of understanding? Is it God’s lack of love? It is neither. It is man’s lack of obedience. The gospel calls us to obey God’s command to repent and to trust Him to save. Therefore, let us “obey the gospel.” Then, like Paul, let us call all, whether religious or idolatrous, to the “obedience of faith.”

Does that work?
 
Jay said:
God's will in salvation is rooted in His love, grace, and justice. Salvation is offered to all who believe, and it is a gift from God, not a result of human works.
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If you mean believing is a condition man meets for salvation, thats works. And salvation isnt never offered, its given by grace.
 
Jay said:
The gospel is not made effective through our obedience but by the obedience of Christ.

This is also true...
Why are not all saved? Is it man’s lack of understanding? Is it God’s lack of love? It is neither. It is man’s lack of obedience. The gospel calls us to obey God’s command to repent and to trust Him to save. Therefore, let us “obey the gospel.” Then, like Paul, let us call all, whether religious or idolatrous, to the “obedience of faith.”

Does that work?
Click to expand...
Rejecting water baptism is rejecting the gospel.

Therefore obedience in submitting to water baptism is a cause of salvation.

To heal the division at Corinth Paul said 1 Cor 1:12-13:
"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

Paul's point is to be "of" someone then two things must be true of that someone:
1) that someone must be crucified for you
2) you must be baptized in that someone's name

These two things are only true of Christ, therefore they could not be OF Paul or OF Apollos of OF Cephas.

Number 1 above is true that Christ was crucified for all men (Heb 2:9) then why are not all saved?

Because of #2, all will not be baptized in the name of Christ, ie, all men will not obey the gospel of Christ.

So how can some claim that obedience is not a cause of salvation?
 
brightfame52 said:
If you mean believing is a condition man meets for salvation, thats works. And salvation isnt never offered, its given by grace.
Click to expand...
It's a gift that is received or rejected. Salvation is a free, unearned gift from God, offered through grace and received through faith in Jesus Christ, rather than by human works. It is a gift of God's love meant to save individuals from sin and divine judgment, as outlined in Ephesians 2:8-9. This gift requires acceptance rather than achievement.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV) states: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast". This passage highlights that salvation is a free gift from God, not earned through human effort, ensuring no one can take credit.
 
Jay said:
How can you be saved if you refuse obey His will,
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Thats what Christ saved His people from, their sin and disobedience. Lk 1:17

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
 
brightfame52 said:
His obedience saved them first, and that's why they obey. A lost person cant obey Jesus,
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No verse says such a thing.

Heb 2:9 Christ's obedience in going to the cross and dying was for every man yet every man will not be saved for every man will not obey the gospel of Christ. The Jews were lost for they would not obey the gospel, Rom 10:16.

This is why there is not a single example of God saving a person who was continually living is disobedience to His will for God saves those who obey.....no one was saved BEFORE they submitted to God's righteousness. Again, the Jews in Rom 10:3 were LOST because they would not obey the righteousness of God, would not obey God's gospel plan of salvation.
 
Christ
brightfame52 said:
Thats works salvation. If you arent already saved b4 water baptism, its just a evil work of the flesh, a dead work
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No one was ever told to "do nothing and thou shalt be save".

Obedience saves again Rom 6:16
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

There is only one of two fates awaiting each man;
1) condemnation by serving sin unto death
2) salvation by serving obedience UNTO righteousness

Faith only-ism rejects #2 leaving only one other fate.

No one was ever commanded to obey because you are already saved but obedience is put before salvation and why there is not an example of God saving one who lives in continual disobedience to His will.
 
Seabass said:
Rejecting water baptism is rejecting the gospel.

Therefore obedience in submitting to water baptism is a cause of salvation.

To heal the division at Corinth Paul said 1 Cor 1:12-13:
"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

Paul's point is to be "of" someone then two things must be true of that someone:
1) that someone must be crucified for you
2) you must be baptized in that someone's name

These two things are only true of Christ, therefore they could not be OF Paul or OF Apollos of OF Cephas.

Number 1 above is true that Christ was crucified for all men (Heb 2:9) then why are not all saved?

Because of #2, all will not be baptized in the name of Christ, ie, all men will not obey the gospel of Christ.

So how can some claim that obedience is not a cause of salvation?
Click to expand...
Water baptism is not required for salvation. If one thinks it is then they believe in baptismal regeneration. It is what the Church of Christ of Latter-Day Saints hold to.

The Bible clearly tells us that salvation is a gift that is received by grace through faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ; no external act is necessary for salvation because it is only by divine grace through faith alone.
 
brightfame52 said:
I just showed you Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
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I showed you that is not what Rom 5:19 is saying.

Again, the verse does not say men are UNconditionally made sinners or UNconditionally made righteous. The ones made righteous are the ones who conditionally obey God..as Paul said "obedience unto righteousness"

Calvinists claim that that verses 18 and 19 teach that all are born unconditionally inheriting Adam's sin, yet such would have the rest of the verse teaching that same all have unconditionally inherited Christ's righteousness, which would be universal and unconditional salvation
 
Seabass said:
I showed you that is not what Rom 5:19 is saying.
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It is what its saying. According to it, how shall they be made righteous which is saved. The righteous inherit the eternal kingdom Matt 13:43

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 
brightfame52 said:
You cant do nothing, you dead
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Physically dead and spiritually dead are not the same things.

A physically dead person can do nothing but the spiritually dead can. Those in Acts 2 were lost, spiritually dead yet they were willing and able to listen to Peter's sermon, understand his sermon, be pricked in the heart by his sermon, able to ask what they must do and obey Peter's command to repent and be baptized all while lost, spiritually dead.

The spiritually dead are still physically alive and therefore have intellectual and emotional capacities to hear, understand, respond and ask questions. Peter's listeners were "cut to the heart" (Acts 2:37), indicating they were emotionally and spiritually capable of responding to the gospel before being baptized.
 
brightfame52 said:
It is what its saying. According to it, how shall they be made righteous which is saved. The righteous inherit the eternal kingdom Matt 13:43

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Click to expand...
The idea of being made UNconditionally righteous is not in the verse.

Paul already made it clear that one is lost by serving sin unto death or saved by serving "obedience unto righteousness".

No one is made UNconditionally righteous..... one must conditionally obey to be righteous.
 

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