"Works Salvation"

[Soyeong]

Exactly...God’s saving action in Christ, is how we are declared to be legally just, it combines his judgment against sin and his free gift of salvation.

Those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so being declared righteous in Christ means being declared someone who practices righteousness by walking in obedience to God'a law. Obedience to God's law is the content of God's free gift of salvation, not the way to earn it.

That's God's way. Then there's man's way:

The Bible repeatedly refers to God's law as being God's way, such as in Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Psalms 103:7, Psalms 119:1-3, and many others.

For being ignorant of the righteousness that God ascribes [which makes one acceptable to Him in word, thought, and deed] and seeking to establish a righteousness (a means of salvation) of their own, they did not obey or submit themselves to God’s righteousness. Romans 10:3

A contrast between doing and believing is established in Romans 9:30–33

“They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, ‘Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame’ ”. In trying to establish their own righteousness based on works, people stumble over the Jesus they fail to believe in His work on the cross as being sufficient. In their pursuit of righteousness based on works, they have missed Christ the author and finisher of our faith.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is he goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3).

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish heir own instead of pursuing God's law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. So this passage is not making a contrast between believing and doing, but rather it is making a contrast between obeying God's law with the correct or incorrect goal.

 

[Studyman]

You are correct. But that is not what we are talking about. Repenting, confessing Jesus' as Lord, and baptism are not "living by our own works, our own high days, our own judgments, our own righteousness, our own religious traditions". They are submitting to God's commands that He says lead to our receiving salvation.

But Doug,

Look around you. The religions of this world God placed both you and I in, those "many" differing religious sects and businesses, "who come in Christ's Name," have created their own religion, with their own judgments, their own high days.

They have created their own religious traditions, their own definition of righteousness, which changes from one generation to another. Their own Sabbaths, their own clean and unclean, their own image of God in the likeness of some random handsome man, and they proudly display this image and proclaim "this is the God who brought us out of the land of Sin/Egypt".

They are not submitting to "God's Commands" like the Jesus "of the bible" said to do. And to those who strive to do so, they call them names like "Legalists and Judaizers", and imply they are "without Christ, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". They ridicule them, shame them, and discourage them, as it is also written, " Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the LORD is his refuge". And not because they don't believe in the Christ, but because they don't adhere to the religious philosophies and traditions of the land.

I've read your posts Doug. You don't agree with all the doctrines and philosophies being promoted by this world's many religions "who come in Christ's Name", and I see you argue against them. Just as the Pharisees argued with the Sadducees and the Catholics argue with the Protestants, and Baptists with SDA, and on and on. In this world God placed us in, like the world God placed Abraham in, and Malichi, and Simeon and Jesus etc., it is filled with religions who profess to know God.

These religions "ALL" have in common, that they "Transgress God's Commandments by their own religious traditions". The Jews in Jesus' Time did so in God's Name. Modern religions do so in Christ's Name.

These things are true. And it is also true that the Church of God described in the OT and in the NT, did not behave in this manner. These things are undeniable. And Jesus warned us about a future, when "many" would come specifically in His Name to deceive.

Didn't the Jesus of the Bible ask;, "Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"

So all I'm saying is that maybe we should accept the truth of what we can see with our own eyes and believe HIM and the warnings about these very things inspired by "HIM". And "STOP" Yielding ourselves servants to obey the traditions, doctrines and religious philosophies of the land God placed us in, like the Israelites that fell, and the Jews in Jesus' time did. And follow the Sayings of the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, and "Yield ourselves" servants to obey the ONE True God that this Jesus said to know, was Eternal Life. And become servants of "His Righteousness" and not man's.

 

[Doug Brents]

But Doug,

Look around you. The religions of this world God placed both you and I in, those "many" differing religious sects and businesses, "who come in Christ's Name," have created their own religion, with their own judgments, their own high days.

They have created their own religious traditions, their own definition of righteousness, which changes from one generation to another. Their own Sabbaths, their own clean and unclean, their own image of God in the likeness of some random handsome man, and they proudly display this image and proclaim "this is the God who brought us out of the land of Sin/Egypt".

They are not submitting to "God's Commands" like the Jesus "of the bible" said to do. And to those who strive to do so, they call them names like "Legalists and Judaizers", and imply they are "without Christ, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". They ridicule them, shame them, and discourage them, as it is also written, " Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the LORD is his refuge". And not because they don't believe in the Christ, but because they don't adhere to the religious philosophies and traditions of the land.

I've read your posts Doug. You don't agree with all the doctrines and philosophies being promoted by this world's many religions "who come in Christ's Name", and I see you argue against them. Just as the Pharisees argued with the Sadducees and the Catholics argue with the Protestants, and Baptists with SDA, and on and on. In this world God placed us in, like the world God placed Abraham in, and Malichi, and Simeon and Jesus etc., it is filled with religions who profess to know God.

These religions "ALL" have in common, that they "Transgress God's Commandments by their own religious traditions". The Jews in Jesus' Time did so in God's Name. Modern religions do so in Christ's Name.

These things are true. And it is also true that the Church of God described in the OT and in the NT, did not behave in this manner. These things are undeniable. And Jesus warned us about a future, when "many" would come specifically in His Name to deceive.

Didn't the Jesus of the Bible ask;, "Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"

So all I'm saying is that maybe we should accept the truth of what we can see with our own eyes and believe HIM and the warnings about these very things inspired by "HIM". And "STOP" Yielding ourselves servants to obey the traditions, doctrines and religious philosophies of the land God placed us in, like the Israelites that fell, and the Jews in Jesus' time did. And follow the Sayings of the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, and "Yield ourselves" servants to obey the ONE True God that this Jesus said to know, was Eternal Life. And become servants of "His Righteousness" and not man's.

You are absolutely correct. There are many of man's traditions, false doctrines, and entire denomination (not to mention other religions) out there that defy the Jesus of the Bible. And I do not (or at least I try not to) argue against them as one worldly religion against another. I argue against them from the position of adhering to Scripture and Jesus' teaching regardless of what the world's religions teach. And one of those false teachings that is predominate among those who claim Jesus' Lordship is the concept that we can be saved simply by "asking Jesus into our heart", or saying some "sinner's prayer" (neither of which concepts is found in Scripture), and giving intellectual assent to the idea that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. But nothing could be further from the truth in Scripture.

If we accept that Scripture is without error, and every word of the original text was authored by the Holy Spirit, then every part of Scripture must have the same importance, significance, and authority. That means that we cannot take just one verse that speaks on a subject and claim it contains all that Scripture has to say about that topic. Two examples of this:

One, In Mark 15:26, we see that the plaque with the charge against Jesus said "THE KING OF THE JEWS". This is very well and good, until we look at John 19:19 where we see that the plaque said, "JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS", and that it said it in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Now, this is not significant to salvation, but if we take only Mark's account, we lose much that we might learn of the significance of the plaque.

Two, John 3:16 says that those who believe in Jesus will be saved. But Mark 16:16 says that those who believe and are baptized will be saved. And Acts 3:19 says that those who repent will be saved. And Acts 2:38 says those who repent and are baptized will be saved. And Rom 10:9-10 says that those who believe and confess Jesus as Lord will be saved. This is significant to our salvation. There are so many different combinations of things that Scripture says lead to salvation, that it is easy to pick one and be ignorant of, or simply ignore, the others. But because all Scripture has the same weight, picking one and ignoring the others would leave us still not having done something that is required to receive salvation, thus leaving us still lost. All of the things that Scripture says lead to salvation must be equally true, and have equal weight in terms of what brings a person to salvation, so all of them must be done in order to receive salvation.

That being said, and contrary to what most of Man's religions today teach, the Scriptures above are very clear that there are some actions that man must take to receive salvation, forgiveness of sin, justification, or whatever synonym you want to use for being made right with God.
The clearest statement of a physical action that leads to salvation is Rom 10:9-10: verbally (and also publicly (Matt 10:32)) claiming Jesus as Lord.
And the fact that there is one physical action that leads to salvation breaks the dam (as it were) and allows us to intellectually accept that there might be others.
And when we look through the New Testament at any Scripture that tells us that something leads to salvation, we find that there are only five (5) things that LEAD TO salvation (as opposed to being done BECAUSE OF having been saved). Those things are HEARING the Gospel, BELIEVING the Gospel, REPENTING of our sins, CONFESSING Jesus as our Lord, and being BAPTIZED into Christ.

 

[Seabass]

Revelation 2 and 3 are seven letters from Jesus to these churches. But they are prophetic in a three fold way. Since it is 2000 years ago and we are the closest to the second coming we can look back and see the most important fold - church history.

John was writing to churches in Asia not to any so called Reformers or "church fathers". Catholicism nor Protestantism, both constructs of man, did not exist in the first century.

 

[Rowan]

When the gospel is proclaimed, when the declaration goes out that the goal of the law has been reached because God has acted once and for all by fulfilling all his promises and providing a way for the ultimate forgiveness of sins, and then you turn around and demand some other works to be performed, you are not just denying some people the free gift of salvation, you are establishing your own way of what it means to be righteous. That's what all the cults do.

 

[Seabass]

When the gospel is proclaimed, when the declaration goes out that the goal of the law has been reached because God has acted once and for all by fulfilling all his promises and providing a way for the ultimate forgiveness of sins, and then you turn around and demand some other works to be performed, you are not just denying some people the free gift of salvation, you are establishing your own way of what it means to be righteous. That's what all the cults do.

Righteous means 'right doing' and no one can be righteous by doing nothing or by doing unrighteousness. Psa 119:172 all God's commandments are righteousness and therefore obeying God's commands is working righteousness and it's only those who 'worketh righteousness' that are accepted with God, (Acts 10:35). He who continues to not do righteosuness continues to not be of God (1 Jn 3:10).

 

[Doug Brents]

When the gospel is proclaimed, when the declaration goes out that the goal of the law has been reached because God has acted once and for all by fulfilling all his promises and providing a way for the ultimate forgiveness of sins, and then you turn around and demand some other works to be performed, you are not just denying some people the free gift of salvation, you are establishing your own way of what it means to be righteous. That's what all the cults do.

You would be 100% correct if it were us (man) that was saying these things. But it is not us, it is God who said that there are actions that man must do to receive salvation.
If God says that man must do something to receive His gift of forgiveness (repentance (Acts 3:19)), then who says that we don't have to do it?
If God says that man must confess Jesus' as Lord to receive His gift of salvation (Rom 10:9-10), then who says that we don't have to do it?
If God says that man must be baptized in order to be saved (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38), then who says that we don't have to do it?
The Scriptures were not authored by men, but by God, and man does not have the authority to say that we don't have to do what God said.

 

[Lily]

Spirit-wrought good works are the necessary evidence that one possesses saving faith in Christ. These good works are not the basis of salvation, which is Christ alone, but if one does not have them at all, one has not really trusted in Jesus alone.

First comes salvation then come good works.

 

[charismaticlady]

John was writing to churches in Asia not to any so called Reformers or "church fathers". Catholicism nor Protestantism, both constructs of man, did not exist in the first century.

They are three-fold prophecies by Jesus that included those first century churches, all Christians personally, and representatives of the eras of the Church. So you think God can't see the future? My God CAN!

 

[Doug Brents]

Spirit-wrought good works are the necessary evidence that one possesses saving faith in Christ. These good works are not the basis of salvation, which is Christ alone, but if one does not have them at all, one has not really trusted in Jesus alone.

First comes salvation then come good works.

Repentance is not a "good work", but a condition upon which salvation is received (Acts 3:19).
Confession of Jesus as Lord is not a "good work", but a condition upon which salvation is received (Rom 10:9-10).
Must I continue? Obedience to the things God says lead to receiving salvation must come before the reception of salvation.

 

[Seabass]

They are three-fold prophecies by Jesus that included those first century churches, all Christians personally, and representatives of the eras of the Church. So you think God can't see the future? My God CAN!

John was writing to those specific churches, not writing to all churches in the future for not all churches had left their first love and fallen as the church in Ephesus, Rev 2.

 

[Lily]

Repentance is not a "good work", but a condition upon which salvation is received (Acts 3:19).
Confession of Jesus as Lord is not a "good work", but a condition upon which salvation is received (Rom 10:9-10).
Must I continue? Obedience to the things God says lead to receiving salvation must come before the reception of salvation.

Wrong. That's the definition of work salvation. It's a different gospel.

God’s Word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works Ephesians 2:8-9 Grace Alone. Faith Alone.

Grace alone means that God loves, forgives, and saves us not because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ. Our best efforts can never be good enough to earn salvation, but God declares us righteous for Christ’s sake. We receive that grace through faith alone. God even gives us the faith that trusts him. We are not saved by obeying a list of do’s and don’ts, but by grace through faith in Christ. Our salvation is in God’s hands. That’s Good News: the real Gospel.

 

[charismaticlady]

Repentance is not a "good work", but a condition upon which salvation is received (Acts 3:19).
Confession of Jesus as Lord is not a "good work", but a condition upon which salvation is received (Rom 10:9-10).
Must I continue? Obedience to the things God says lead to receiving salvation must come before the reception of salvation.

Sorry but part of obedience is to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. Are you trying to say you can do that with a sin nature?

 

[Doug Brents]

Wrong. That's the definition of work salvation. It's a different gospel.

If you really believe that, then you are not reading Scripture. Read the Scriptures I cited above. Tell me honestly that Acts 3:19 does not say that repentance leads to our receiving salvation: you can't! Tell me honestly that Rom 10:9-10 does not say that confession of Jesus as Lord does not lead to our receiving salvation: you can't! Those are clear examples of physical actions that man must take that lead to salvation. You can argue with me, but you cannot argue with Scripture and still be right with God.

God’s Word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works Ephesians 2:8-9 Grace Alone. Faith Alone.

Is it grace alone? or faith alone? Which is it? Because if it is both, then neither of them is ALONE any longer. Read James 2:24; this is the ONLY place in all of Scripture where either "grace alone" or "faith alone" can be found. What does it say? "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." If you do not have action in your faith, then you faith does not really exist.

Grace alone means that God loves, forgives, and saves us not because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ. Our best efforts can never be good enough to earn salvation, but God declares us righteous for Christ’s sake.

Absolutely correct. This is not what is in contention here. What we are discussing is WHEN that forgiveness and salvation takes place. It is not when we give intellectual assent to the truth of the Gospel, because even the demons believe in God, but their belief will not save them.

We receive that grace through faith alone.

And faith is not passive, mental only, intellectual assent. Without action faith is dead (James 2:26).

God even gives us the faith that trusts him.

Faith is not the gift that Eph 2:8-9 is talking about. Salvation is the gift.

We are not saved by obeying a list of do’s and don’ts, but by grace through faith in Christ. Our salvation is in God’s hands. That’s Good News: the real Gospel.

Again, this is true as far as it goes. But there are conditions that God has placed on our reception of that grace, and if we do not meet those conditions, then we do not receive the gift.

 

[Doug Brents]

Sorry but part of obedience is to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. Are you trying to say you can do that with a sin nature?

No, because being perfect is not something that leads to salvation. It is one of the effects that occur because we have been saved.
There are only four things that Scripture says lead to our receiving salvation:
1. Belief of the Gospel (after we have heard it) (John 3:16, and many others).
2. Repentance (Acts 3:19)
3. Confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10). and
4. Baptism (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38).
These are the ONLY things that Scripture says lead to receiving salvation.

 

[Studyman]

You are absolutely correct. There are many of man's traditions, false doctrines, and entire denomination (not to mention other religions) out there that defy the Jesus of the Bible. And I do not (or at least I try not to) argue against them as one worldly religion against another. I argue against them from the position of adhering to Scripture and Jesus' teaching regardless of what the world's religions teach. And one of those false teachings that is predominate among those who claim Jesus' Lordship is the concept that we can be saved simply by "asking Jesus into our heart", or saying some "sinner's prayer" (neither of which concepts is found in Scripture), and giving intellectual assent to the idea that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. But nothing could be further from the truth in Scripture.

If we accept that Scripture is without error, and every word of the original text was authored by the Holy Spirit, then every part of Scripture must have the same importance, significance, and authority. That means that we cannot take just one verse that speaks on a subject and claim it contains all that Scripture has to say about that topic. Two examples of this:

One, In Mark 15:26, we see that the plaque with the charge against Jesus said "THE KING OF THE JEWS". This is very well and good, until we look at John 19:19 where we see that the plaque said, "JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS", and that it said it in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Now, this is not significant to salvation, but if we take only Mark's account, we lose much that we might learn of the significance of the plaque.

Thank you so much for the heart felt reply.

Yes, there is no significant difference between the 4 eyewitness accounts. No two people witness an event exactly the same.

Luke 23: 38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

Two, John 3:16 says that those who believe in Jesus will be saved. But Mark 16:16 says that those who believe and are baptized will be saved. And Acts 3:19 says that those who repent will be saved. And Acts 2:38 says those who repent and are baptized will be saved. And Rom 10:9-10 says that those who believe and confess Jesus as Lord will be saved. This is significant to our salvation.

Remember, the New Testament is not the "Gospel of Christ". Paul said the Gospel of Christ is the Law and Prophets and it is from "Within" the Law and Prophets that the Righteousness and the Wrath of God against all unrighteousness, is revealed to man.

Rom. 1 :16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. (Habakkuk. 2:4)

2 Tim. 3: 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: (Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.) and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

And again;

Ez. 18: 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Is this not the Rock. The Holy One of Israel up where HE was before? He was sent to Israel before HE was sent to us.

Heb. 4: 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

So men are different, they have different perspectives. So the "witness" will vary from one man to the other. But the foundation, the Gospel of Christ that Jesus and Paul taught from, has remained the same for generation after generation. And it was written for our example, for our admonition.

You may think it is different today, but it is not. Israel was blinded because when they knew God, they didn't Glorify Him as God. This veil exists even today.

2 Cor. 3: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it (The heart) shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

This is why Paul said "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

There are so many different combinations of things that Scripture says lead to salvation, that it is easy to pick one and be ignorant of, or simply ignore, the others.

I disagree. This world's religions teach that there is, and have broken into dozens of differing religious sects and businesses. But the Scriptures, in my view, do not promote such a philosophy. And we should be joyful that they are all divided, can you imagine a ONE World religion? But God showed us mercy in the Tower of Babel.

There is only ONE "Way of the Lord".

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

It is the SAME Body that came out of Egypt by the Blood of the Lamb, which reconciled them to God, but didn't "Save them" as "many" fell in the wilderness. They fell because they didn't believe the Rock who fed and watered them.

Duet. 32: 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. 18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. 20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Here is what the Jesus "of the Bible" said; John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And again;

Rev. 14: 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
While it is true there are "so many different combinations of things" promoted by "many" religious businesses and Sects of this world we were born into, The True Gospel of Christ is not like that. Babylon is confusion, not the Gospel.

2 Cor. 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

It's simple Doug. If a religion transgresses God's Commandments by their own religious tradition, they are not from God. Jesus warned specifically about this.

But because all Scripture has the same weight, picking one and ignoring the others would leave us still not having done something that is required to receive salvation, thus leaving us still lost. All of the things that Scripture says lead to salvation must be equally true, and have equal weight in terms of what brings a person to salvation, so all of them must be done in order to receive salvation.

This is true. But if a person rejects, or refuses to believe Moses, in whom God revealed HIS Righteousness through, then how can they know the True Christ? What do they do? They create and then preach a Jesus, who brought HIS Own righteousness. Such a Christ does not exist in the Holy Scriptures.

My friend, be careful and take heed of these "many".

That being said, and contrary to what most of Man's religions today teach, the Scriptures above are very clear that there are some actions that man must take to receive salvation, forgiveness of sin, justification, or whatever synonym you want to use for being made right with God.
The clearest statement of a physical action that leads to salvation is Rom 10:9-10: verbally (and also publicly (Matt 10:32)) claiming Jesus as Lord.
And the fact that there is one physical action that leads to salvation breaks the dam (as it were) and allows us to intellectually accept that there might be others.

Yes, and it thrills me that you would make this statement. But why would a man think otherwise in the first place? Certainly the Law and Prophets teach men to "change". Is it not because from our youth, this world's religions have been promoting a religious philosophy that you have found to be false? And through study of the Scriptures, you have found the deception.

Not because you chose to adopt and support one religious business over another. Not because you chose to adopt and promote one religious philosopher of this world over another. But because you studied the Oracles of God HE delivered into your own home. Now "you" sit in Moses Seat, and are ready, not to just "Hear" the Sayings of Christ, but to be a "doer" of them.

And when we look through the New Testament at any Scripture that tells us that something leads to salvation, we find that there are only five (5) things that LEAD TO salvation (as opposed to being done BECAUSE OF having been saved). Those things are HEARING the Gospel, BELIEVING the Gospel, REPENTING of our sins, CONFESSING Jesus as our Lord, and being BAPTIZED into Christ.

In the Spiritual Gospel of Christ, it is written;

1 Sam. 15: 1 Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.

Think about this. Does God desire the death on one who dies? NO. Does God care for Oxen, sheep, camels or donkeys? No! Or did HE write this for our sakes. Paul said "for our sakes no doubt this is written".

So my friend, consider what this is saying.

Both you and I have been reconciled to God by the Blood of the Lamb, just as Israel was. And we left, rather, followed God/Christ, out of the life of Sin, (Egypt) on a journey to a promised land, "a land that I will shew thee".

But what happened? The religions of the land God brought us through, influenced us through their religious doctrines, traditions and philosophies to the point that if we listened to them, they would cause us to Sin against God. This is what Amalek represents.

The "man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***" spiritually symbolizes our thoughts, or as Paul teaches.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

We are to have the mind of Christ, not the mind of this world's religions and we all, including King Saul, will engage in this battle until the Christ returns.
Ex. 17: For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.

My friend, we are prone to want to keep some of the traditions of our fathers. To hold on to some of the seductive philosophies of this world that we encounter along our journey.

Just be careful, and "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Thanks again for a refreshingly honest and hopeful reply.

 

[Kokomo]

Why works salvation is not connected to justification/righteousness is found in 2 Corinthians 5:21: “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” God did the work, “made him to be sin” that refers to Christ’s becoming a sacrifice for our sin. Our sin and guilt are laid on Christ, who suffers the punishment of death that we deserved.

In Christ our sin is exchanged for his righteousness. Here Paul sums up the content of his ministry of reconciliation—through God’s judging and saving work in Christ (his righteousness), believers in union with Christ share in his death, and because of that God does not count our sins against us but makes the believer a “new creation”.

The corporate nature of justification is evident in this text. By corporate, what is meant is that we share in Christ’s death and resurrection as though we ourselves died and rose to new life. He is our representative before God, and what is his, and what he has done, becomes truly and fully ours in him.

 

[Doug Brents]

Thank you so much for the heart felt reply.

Remember, the New Testament is not the "Gospel of Christ". Paul said the Gospel of Christ is the Law and Prophets and it is from "Within" the Law and Prophets that the Righteousness and the Wrath of God against all unrighteousness, is revealed to man.

NO. The OT is the history of God's people leading up to the Christ. The OT is not the Gospel, but it does point toward the One that the Gospel is about. The Gospel is the good news about the Christ. Jesus, being the Christ, is the One that the OT points toward, and the NT points back to. But the Gospel is the life, death, and resurrection of the Christ that makes a way for us to be reunited with our God.

Rom. 1 :16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. (Habakkuk. 2:4)

2 Tim. 3: 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: (Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.) and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

And again;

Ez. 18: 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Is this not the Rock. The Holy One of Israel up where HE was before? He was sent to Israel before HE was sent to us.

Heb. 4: 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

So men are different, they have different perspectives. So the "witness" will vary from one man to the other. But the foundation, the Gospel of Christ that Jesus and Paul taught from, has remained the same for generation after generation. And it was written for our example, for our admonition.

You may think it is different today, but it is not. Israel was blinded because when they knew God, they didn't Glorify Him as God. This veil exists even today.

2 Cor. 3: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it (The heart) shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

This is why Paul said "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The OT, being made complete and obsolete by Christ, is not the "rules and laws" by which we live today. It is the life of Christ which we are called to emulate, and His commands which we are to follow. Yes, fornication, murder, theft, etc. are still sins as they were in the OT. But eating pork, working on Shabbat, being required to sacrifice in Jerusalem, and other similar things are no longer forbidden or required.

I disagree. This world's religions teach that there is, and have broken into dozens of differing religious sects and businesses. But the Scriptures, in my view, do not promote such a philosophy. And we should be joyful that they are all divided, can you imagine a ONE World religion? But God showed us mercy in the Tower of Babel.

There is only ONE "Way of the Lord".

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

It is the SAME Body that came out of Egypt by the Blood of the Lamb, which reconciled them to God, but didn't "Save them" as "many" fell in the wilderness. They fell because they didn't believe the Rock who fed and watered them.

Duet. 32: 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. 18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. 20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Here is what the Jesus "of the Bible" said; John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And again;

Rev. 14: 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
While it is true there are "so many different combinations of things" promoted by "many" religious businesses and Sects of this world we were born into, The True Gospel of Christ is not like that. Babylon is confusion, not the Gospel.

2 Cor. 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

It's simple Doug. If a religion transgresses God's Commandments by their own religious tradition, they are not from God. Jesus warned specifically about this.

Yes, Christ Himself was against religion, but was very much for Spirituality. And when we read Scripture, and see that there are multiple things that Scripture says lead to salvation, then, because we understand that all Scripture is equally Spirit breathed, we must treat all those things as equally leading to salvation.

This is true. But if a person rejects, or refuses to believe Moses, in whom God revealed HIS Righteousness through, then how can they know the True Christ? What do they do? They create and then preach a Jesus, who brought HIS Own righteousness. Such a Christ does not exist in the Holy Scriptures.

My friend, be careful and take heed of these "many".

God did not reveal His righteousness in Moses. Moses was a sinful man just as you and I are. It is in Christ, and Christ alone, that God reveals His righteousness. Yes, Christ did bring His own righteousness, and it is through His righteousness that we are made righteous.

Yes, and it thrills me that you would make this statement. But why would a man think otherwise in the first place? Certainly the Law and Prophets teach men to "change". Is it not because from our youth, this world's religions have been promoting a religious philosophy that you have found to be false? And through study of the Scriptures, you have found the deception.

Not because you chose to adopt and support one religious business over another. Not because you chose to adopt and promote one religious philosopher of this world over another. But because you studied the Oracles of God HE delivered into your own home. Now "you" sit in Moses Seat, and are ready, not to just "Hear" the Sayings of Christ, but to be a "doer" of them.

Not really sure what you are getting at here. Your comment really doesn't follow with what I was saying.

There are so many of the world's religions that teach (referencing Eph 2:8-9) that there are no physical actions that man must do in order to receive the gift of salvation from God. But as the passages I referenced in that post show, nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Lily]

It's really not that complicated. Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth and you will be saved. BAM! Salvation that's what I'm talking about.

 

[Doug Brents]

It's really not that complicated. Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth and you will be saved. BAM! Salvation that's what I'm talking about.

Can you please explain how Acts 3:19 fits in with this statement?